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Thread: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

  1. #1
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    Default Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    I would like to pick the collective brain regarding just the possibility of modifying our Jericho Bay Skiff.
    It is my daughter's boat, but she and I are scheming to share a project again in the near future.

    Would it be unadvisable to add a lightly built deck and house to a Jericho Bay Skiff? (only 16') Really adding the aesthetic effect is what we are shooting for without overbuilding.

    Something like this:



    Just a concept sketched on top of the hull plan for the skiff.
    Trying to keep the profile low. Only sitting head height in the cabin. Retaining bench seats to save weight.

    Thank you in advance for consideration.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Lines for the Jericho Bay skiff



    I wouldn't hesitate to provided the changes were very modest in height and weight.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    Lines for the Jericho Bay skiff



    I wouldn't hesitate to provided the changes were very modest in height and weight.
    Thank you Jim.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by jtdums View Post
    Thank you Jim.
    You're welcome for the lines drawing. As for my advice, it's worth everything you paid for it. Good luck!
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    There's been a few modified JBL's built lately, the most modified one I've seen was one for sale in WB that was stretched out to 18', that would be a very nice boat if done correctly as it would take some well thought out mold modifications. I stretched mine to 16' 2" without mold mod's by stretching out the mold spacings a few inches to increase the plan length by 8". A full deck is not a problem, however, adding a house/cabin may be an issue for a "to plan" built boat. I also added a center console and forward raised deck on the full deck.

    See post #28

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...+lobster+skiff

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Your JBS is very nice looking and it was one that gave us inspiration when we built ours a few years later. We did build to plan. I love to tinker and build so that is what is pushing this new idea a bit. We have a 30hp etec pushing her so I think we will have plenty there. I'm really curious about the extra weight up high and the impact that might have on a rather small boat.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    No. I would not do it. A dodger if you must have some shelter. If you want more, but different plans.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldad View Post
    No. I would not do it. A dodger if you must have some shelter. If you want more, but different plans.
    Thank you for your input. I wonder if you can expand a bit just for my understanding. Is it a weight concern that has you recommend against it? The boat is already built, so I'm not really looking at options for plans at this time, just considering changes to the existing boat.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Generally, all boat hulls are purpose designed. Yours was designed as an open boat, if you add weight where it was not planned for by the designer you may compromise your safety, unless of course you understand the ramifications of your addition on the performance of the boat. You may also create something that is not attractive (unless perhaps you are qualified) and therefore reduce the value of a very pretty little boat. Why not ask the opinion of the man who designed your boat? Sorry, no fun to hear a negative opinion. Others on the forum may have a more positive suggestion.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldad View Post
    Generally, all boat hulls are purpose designed. Yours was designed as an open boat, if you add weight where it was not planned for by the designer you may compromise your safety, unless of course you understand the ramifications of your addition on the performance of the boat. You may also create something that is not attractive (unless perhaps you are qualified) and therefore reduce the value of a very pretty little boat. Why not ask the opinion of the man who designed your boat? Sorry, no fun to hear a negative opinion. Others on the forum may have a more positive suggestion.
    Oldad, thank you for taking the time to comment and I appreciate your guidance.

    You are speaking to my primary concern when you address the safety of making changes to the design. This is the foremost reason I am asking here as I know the vast array of experience that chimes in on topics so I hope to probe for advise before making any changes. (If indeed any are made at all.)

    Regrettably, the designer has passed so it is no longer possible to consult directly with him.

    The aesthetic changes don't concern me too much since we are building this boat for ourselves and "value" plays but a small role. However, that being said, it is my hope that the design above isn't too great a departure from tradition as I hope to borrow tested design elements done by those far more experienced than me who have developed lobster boat design over many careers.

    I possess the technical skill to pull off the proposed changes, but honestly I've always been a "plans" guy and don't profess to be a boat designer by any means. So there is my second hope for the posting. If the design change could be done safely, what do people think? I've seen a lot of beautiful boats, but I've also seen some not so attractive to my eye, but certainly someone along the way thought they were a design that could be loved. Tastes fall all over the place, but anything worth doing is worth doing well (and hopefully attractively.)

    Thanks again Oldad and if anyone else wants to comment please feel free to...no hurt feelings here.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    If I am not mistaken, the original, Joel White design build by Jimmy Steele was a plank on frame boat. By going to cedar strip you are already making a much lighter boat and with no frames to speak of, I could see where something to stiffen the boat would be an improvement. It is a 15 1/2" lobster boat, and it looks like one. It would make a wonderful 15 1/2" RC Lobster boat with trunk, cabin and a davit. I think that 3 - 4" side decks and a small cuddy would stiffen the boat and as long as the cabin were not too tall, look pretty nice. Look at the Easterns and Sisus that can be a center console or a lobster boat cabin.

    Don't be stupid and try to make a cabin with 6' headroom but I think that stiffening and a modest bit of weight would add a bit of sea kindliness and be a great project.

    I added decks to my Point Comfort 18 and do not regret it.

    Cheers
    Dennis Doherty

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by Paper Moon View Post
    If I am not mistaken, the original, Joel White design build by Jimmy Steele was a plank on frame boat. By going to cedar strip you are already making a much lighter boat and with no frames to speak of, I could see where something to stiffen the boat would be an improvement. It is a 15 1/2" lobster boat, and it looks like one. It would make a wonderful 15 1/2" RC Lobster boat with trunk, cabin and a davit. I think that 3 - 4" side decks and a small cuddy would stiffen the boat and as long as the cabin were not too tall, look pretty nice. Look at the Easterns and Sisus that can be a center console or a lobster boat cabin.

    Don't be stupid and try to make a cabin with 6' headroom but I think that stiffening and a modest bit of weight would add a bit of sea kindliness and be a great project.

    I added decks to my Point Comfort 18 and do not regret it.

    Cheers
    Dennis Doherty
    Great feed back Dennis. (Not just because its what I want to hear.) You have a great grasp of what I'm thinking and a clear knowledge of the design. Thank you for you time.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Sounds like a fun project for you and your daughter. To be clear, here's what a dodger can look like on a small open lobsterboat: http://www.lowellbrothers.com/Lowell-wooden-boat/21.php

    Here's a small, almost caricature version of a lobster boat with reduced cabin of the type you're considering.

    https://lobsterboatspike.wordpress.c...terboat-spike/
    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Since the extra weight of the small cabin or cuddy is a concern. What about doing a detailed inventory and sum of the weight of all the cabin parts. Add that amount of weight forward. Load up the boat as normal then motor around a bit, hopefully in mixed conditions. This will tell you something about the dispersion issue. Maybe there is some balancing options to make it just right. But won’t inform you on the issue looks or windage. As to the looks, do mock ups with cardboard or cheap underpayment ply, post those here.

    But my off the cuff response is. If it’s designed properly, it would look good and be a very useful addition. The bow is pretty voluminous as is, you wouldn’t need to add much to get a nice little nook up in there. As you already know if designed inproperly, it will be terrible.
    Last edited by Matt young; 03-04-2018 at 09:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    Sounds like a fun project for you and your daughter. To be clear, here's what a dodger can look like on a small open lobsterboat: http://www.lowellbrothers.com/Lowell-wooden-boat/21.php

    Here's a small, almost caricature version of a lobster boat with reduced cabin of the type you're considering.

    https://lobsterboatspike.wordpress.c...terboat-spike/
    That second picture is similar to what I'm thinking, but instead of standing headroom we would go for sitting headroom and hopefully keep the windage down and proportionally I think it would look better on the smaller boat.

    Thanks for your suggestions.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Since the extra weight of the small cabin or cuddy is a concern. What about doing a detailed inventory and sum of the weight of all the cabin parts. Add that amount of weight forward. Load up the boat as normal then motor around a bit, hopefully in mixed conditions. This will tell you something about the dispersion issue. Maybe there is some balancing options to make it just right. But won’t inform you on the issue looks or windage. As to the looks, do mock ups with cardboard or cheap underpayment ply, post those here.
    This is a great suggestion for testing the weight. Given its small size, I think the cabin could be built entirely out of about 4 sheets of 1/2" ply (or equivalent). 1/2" Okoume is about 45lbs a sheet, so I believe the weight could be kept down below 200lbs. Easily simulated with a couple bags of rocks or cement and some on the water time. We are not building it out and have no plans to add furniture or fixtures so my first guess is that we might be OK weight wise.

    I tend to template everything since I hate making poor use expensive material. (Yankee thriftiness...really I'm not just cheap.) I'll certainly post for feedback on the design. This is a pending summer project since the JBS lives up in Michigan.

    Thank you for your suggestions.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    jtdums,
    We're on the same page as far as liking to "tinker" with things. Part of my homework before building a JBL was studying the other boats in the same family, West point skiffs, Pulsifer Hamptons and the Ocean Pointer. Quite a few years of evolution (tinkering) by some very good builders went into these boats. After meeting and talking to Dick Nichols, Dick Pulsifer and David Stimson I came away with a few basic thoughts, these gentlemen are among the best Maine traditional small boat builders around and weren't too receptive about major changes to their boats, that was understandable as these boats we're designed quite successfully as working boats with the exception of the Ocean Pointer, the newest family member derived from West point Skiffs. All of this somewhat tempered my "tinkering" thoughts and evolved into the changes made. I second the use of a dodger in these boats, Pulsifers dodgers are about as basic and functional as they come.




    http://www.pulsiferhampton.com/

    https://www.woodenboatstore.com/prod...owerboat_plans

    https://www.westpointskiff.com/

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Although the utility of the dodger is very useful, it isn' the look that I'm interested but it may speak to the added windage that a small house would create. If you can get away with a dodger, perhaps the added windage isn't too much of an issue.

    I'm familiar with both the pointer and west point as models, but I have never built either. Both are good comparisons although built heavier than the JBS as I understand and have seen via online information.

    It is the looking at other boats that brought up our desire to modify the JBS. Particularly stunning in a small boat package and lobster style hull in my opinion is Graham Byrnes Outer Banks 20.

    http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/ob-20/

    I think Mr. Byrnes designs some very capable and attractive vessels.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    It sounds like the cabin top you envision would be at a height so that standing at the helm your daughter would look forward over it.

    Another alternative would be a removable day cabin that could be lifted off if wanted and for ease of cosmetic attention. Something like this idea: https://www.google.com/search?q=bray...et09GwtCiXiFM:
    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    It sounds like the cabin top you envision would be at a height so that standing at the helm your daughter would look forward over it.

    Another alternative would be a removable day cabin that could be lifted off if wanted and for ease of cosmetic attention. Something like this idea: https://www.google.com/search?q=bray...et09GwtCiXiFM:
    I think we would actually sit under it more like what you see in Byrnes Outerbanks 20 above. Currently there is a bench and a small side mounted console already. I think to avoid extra weight, we would plan on leaving them where they are and carrying the "roof" of the cabin back to just above the bench.
    One other option might be to make the "roof" of the cabin out of canvas. It would be light and removable that way. I think I remember seeing an Atkins design done that way a while back.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Here is the current bench/console set up for reference:


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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    I think that a foredeck to create a cuddy below would be a nice improvement, as it would create a nice dry spot to store light items. Maybe even a raised cuddy trunk, as seen on some Downeast and Cape Islanders to both increase cuddy volume and weather protection to the operator. A windscreen atop the deck would be as far up as I would build, though, for several reasons such as adverse windage, weight forward, etc.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by jtdums View Post
    Here is the current bench/console set up for reference:

    Very nice job, that traditional wheel and canoe type gunnels are a very nice touch.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Thank you Woodpile. We are very happy with how she came out.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    I'd be tempted to try something like this built very lightly in occume



    or something like this with a removable canvas top or possibly a removable wooden top if you had someplace you could stash it, such as on the fore deck or under in in the bow.

    Last edited by JimD; 03-05-2018 at 10:40 AM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Thanks for the suggestions Jim.
    I think making it removable might lend itself to greater weight which it certainly sounds like from the feedback we want to avoid. Canvas top might work. I do like the look of the first one especially. Something about its style seems more "classic" and appeals.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Not to your taste probably but I've always admired this adaptation of the Spaulding Dunbar design Bluegill, a variation on the Bartender type. https://www.boatdesign.net/attachmen...21-jpg.111740/
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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by jtdums View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions Jim.
    I think making it removable might lend itself to greater weight...
    Three or four pounds, maybe. Nothing I'd be concerned with. My experience with small boats with and without cabins and cuddies is that the more access you have to moving around the inside of the boat the better. You can see from the second pic that the guy standing forward could not be where he is were there a permanent roof over the windshield.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    The weight is certainly important. I would add that I might consider the windage. Such a small boat MIGHT be come clumsy to manuever in any kind of wind.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    WRT windage, IMHO any structures above the sheer should be kept as far aft as is practical. In JimD's post No. 25 above, I would suggest that the blue-hulled boat will behave better in a crosswind than the sketched boat.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    The traditional dodger as Pulsifer uses on his Hamptons is the way I'd go. An A frame just ahead of the steering station with a ridge pole to the forward edge of the cockpit coaming. If some camping was indicated, pull the forward seat and run some side benches to the thwart ahead of the steering station, then have a couple of removable filler pieces. That way you don't lose the utility of having an open boat.
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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    I may have missed it, but you have not said why you want the cabin/cuddy? If for overnighting, then Jimd's in #25 would be a start. Getting out of the weather, porta-potty are other things. I was thinking in the early posts, about a lifting cabin top, front hinged?. More head room, when moored, lower windage when motoring.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    We don't use it really as a true utility boat, so losing the "open" concept isn't too much of a loss. Also, we don't use it to fish so that isn't a concern.

    It would be great to be able to overnight in it, but that would require reconfiguring the area under the cabin and then that too would add more weight. Ideally, it gets us out of the weather, provides storage, and could be used to "light" (over night) camp probably in that order.

    I'm not going the dodger route even though I know it is the most weight acceptable solution.
    The fact that it has a pretty stout keel strip on the bottom might help with the windage issue too.

    Loving the feedback and examples. Thanks everyone for participating.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Quote Originally Posted by jtdums View Post
    We don't use it really as a true utility boat, so losing the "open" concept isn't too much of a loss. Also, we don't use it to fish so that isn't a concern...
    Just going to say it one more time and then I'll move on, I promise. I think if you had one of those powerboats that was eight feet wide at the transom and a low profile bow it would make more sense to block off the front half with a permanent structure of some sort. But your boat is barely over 5 feet wide and I'm guessing closer to 4' at the transom. Maybe make a quick and cheap temporary facsimile or three and try them?
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Small Lobster Boat (Jericho Bay Skiff) Possible Modification

    Take a look at the Pelicano 18 bassboat (Devlin designs) Link here

    https://www.devlinboat.com/wordpress...o-18-bassboat/

    I think that a small trunk cabin with a modest windscreen would look great. You may need to add weight aft to compensate for the cabin and moving the driver forward but as I said earlier, I think that weight and stiffness would do this boat a whole lot of good. Add a canvas top and you gain sun protection without much weight. Take a look at the Dyer 29 photos to see how they can subtly add height over the windscreen with zippered 'smile' hatches to let air in.

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