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Thread: brothm edict #1

  1. #1
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    Default brothm edict #1

    Where does your interest in wooden boats lie?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Staying afloat, dry.
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Smallish sailboats that live on trailers. I've built six.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Shouldn't the first edict be an "A"-dict? And the next a "B"-dict?

    I just love wood. Especially solid wood over engineered versions, but there's carryover there too. I love it in little vernacular craft like wood and canvas canoes, in big craft like fishing vessels and tugs. In high gloss and fragile furniture-like craftsmanship and in tough workmanlike uses like you'd see in a wooden-decked flatbed truck bed.

    What I love is the versatility and range and beauty of the material itself. Accessible to beginner crafts workers and experts, cheap enough in some varieties to learn with and make mistakes. Durable enough to last, with proper care, for decades or centuries in a thoughtfully designed piece, whether made with the most basic hand tools or the most advanced. I love how in many pieces, you see evidence of the life of the tree as it grew, and then of the people who worked it, and who used the finished piece. It bears a record of history, and is made beautiful by it.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    I was born in the wrong century.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    I love me sum wuden boats but caint afford that sh17! Admire from afar, especially work boats like Florence at the MSP in CT.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    ^^^ You're a gem Tom. Your description rises to the level of poetry. Thank you.

    Me, I'll be launching my first wooden boat this spring and I've got plans queued up for Tom Lathrop's Bluejacket after we move. I use the pure selfishness of my time working on the boat to recharge. No other hobby has done that for me as thoroughly and consistently.

    I've wondered the same thing about any of you that I only know from bilge postings. Thanks for the thread.

    Mike

  8. #8
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Where does your interest in wooden boats lie?
    In my case, it's an appreciation of how boatwrights of the distant past were able to overcome the deficiencies and limitations of the materials and technologies they had to work with, and to solve problems that might otherwise have been the result of those limitations.

    This is distinct, to a degree, from what might be called 'modern wooden boatbuilding', which is far more about style than function.... since even a traditional design, built today, will almost invariably use any number of modern materials in it's construction. The boat builders of the mid-1800's didn't have Sikaflex, epoxy, fiberglass cloth, modern fasteners made of heretofore unknown alloys, polyurethane paints, etc... but they nonetheless managed to build impressive boats, some of which lasted a very long time... and a precious few STILL exist, albeit renovated with those modern materials.

    Beyond that, I DO think it's really about style... it's pretty hard to beat those classic styles of boats whose visual appeal persists and survives into the 21st century. It isn't necessarily about practicality, at all... I've seen many photos of wooden boats built in the 50's and 60's which have degraded to scrap wood status, because the demands of maintenance may have overcome their owner's pocketbooks or fortitude... in contrast, there are fiberglass boats from the same era which survive, and aside from cosmetics, are every bit as sound as the day they came out of the mold.

    So, why do I still love wooden boats... but sail a modern fiberglass boat? Because I draw a distinction between form and function. I certainly love the form of the classic wooden boats... but I also sail a lot, and while some may argue to the contrary, I still think it's impossible to beat a modern fiberglass boat, for practicality, performance, and low maintenance requirements. Just the idea alone, that after a winter on the hard, a boat might require weeks of sitting in the water, leaking into the bilge until the board swells sufficiently to stop leaking, is enough to put me off my feed.

    I'm not criticizing those who don't mind all that... a labor of love is a highly personal thing. But since it IS personal, I can say without the slightest bit of shame, that it's not 'my thing'.

    I feel similarly about cars, by the way.... to me, there's nothing more beautiful than a classic 1930's automobile... but a modern auto can go 100,000 miles, when new, with no more service than a periodic oil change, and will start reliably in any weather, under any conditions. Those beautiful cars of the 1930's couldn't come close to doing that. So, I visit automotive museums... and drive a 2013 Honda Accord
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  9. #9
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Beauty
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  10. #10
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Stitch & glue.


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  11. #11
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    I was born in the wrong century.
    I often catch myself thinking that. But then I ponder dentistry...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  12. #12
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I often catch myself thinking that. But then I ponder dentistry...
    and penicillin
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Economics. I couldn’t afford $200,000 up front for a boat. So I chose to pay $10,000 up front and $400,000 in maintenance over time for a boat that is now worth $40,000.
    Last edited by ron ll; 03-03-2018 at 03:23 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Traditionally built small boats, no more than two masts. At scales of 1:16 and 1:1.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    My interest lies in researching and building older designs from the late 1800's to the mid 1900's. I've built quite a few Rushtons and the 1920 era fantail launch. The beauty of the older designs attracts me more then the more functional aspect of a more modern stitch and glue or similar design. There certainly are modern designers with graceful designs, but I'd have to pay for that. I really enjoy taking an older design, with nothing but a lines plan and set of offsets and building that. The mental challenge of working out all the details for myself is very gratifying.
    Right now, I'm pondering what to build next and how to explain it to the wife!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I often catch myself thinking that. But then I ponder dentistry...
    I meant, I'm from the future. We won't even need teeth.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Who doesn’t enjoy working with hard wood?
    Skip

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    My personal interest is in small boats of all sorts. That's what I grew up with. My parents said that I was on a 18' kit-built Burch-Craft cabin cruiser the day after I was born. Longtime power-boater, but learned to sail about a dozen years back, and love it. I like traditionally built boats, and enjoy working on them, but for personal use I'm mostly into plywood or SOF. Nothing that lives in the water, or needs to 'take up' before use.

    I have 6 boats. Some of which are ready to use, some of which are in process. One 13.5' fg pulling boat (provenance questionable, but Whitehallish) that needs new wooden bits. One 17' power boat/fish boat (Spira 'Katchemak'). Two SOF kayaks. One 8' sailing dinghy (PDR). One 15.5' sailing/rowing/motoring dinghy (Storer 'Goat Island Skiff').

    Professionally - I like building all sorts of small boats - up to 25'. And I rather enjoy doing repair/restoration/upgrades on client's boats. Helping people keep their boating lives active is quite satisfying - and I don't really mind if the boat is wood, fg, or metal. Though wood is my preference, for sure. Making the kits is fun. I really enjoy painting and brightwork... but bottom paint is not my favorite task. I like finding a client who wants to upgrade their tender from a rubber ducky to something that matches their boat better, and really enjoy helping them find the 'right' design.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  19. #19
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Ahem. One can hardly call a question an edict.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Designing and building my own boats have been a dream since childhood. I started with a dory an am working my way upward.
    Ragnar B.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gray View Post
    Ahem. One can hardly call a question an edict.
    I think maybe the 'edict' part comes in because we are 'directed' to answer. In deference to the august powers of the BROTM... I complied - swiftly and fully. You'd best do so as well, before he brings the mysterious might of The Committee to bear.... <G>
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  22. #22
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    My liking for wooden boats probably comes from the same place as my liking for living in a fifteenth century house. Beauty, character, history, variety (more and more important in this age of commodity "white goods" boats that differ from each other only in name and minor details)

    The only wooden boat I currently own is an 8 foot lug rigged, clinker built (in the garden) tender in which I spend some of my happiest hours afloat. Main boat is a "good old boat" - GRP shell fitted out from scratch in wood by my husband and me and in our possession since 1975.

    But I have owned and/or sailed in a lot of different wooden boats, ranging from a Firefly to beat up clinker dinghies to immaculate Salcombe Yawls; a leaky 22 foot gaffer that was the first "lidded" boat I owned; various wooden cruising boats ranging in size from 18ft 6 to 70 ft and including (along with a real Bristol Channel Pilot cutter, Brixham trawler, the lovely old yawl Nicolette that was deliberately sunk by a Breton fisherman many years ago) the lovely Irina VII - my second favourite in the world after my own boat and now for sale, if anyone would like to buy her for me. (http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.u...22/IRINA%20VII)

    Fishing boats and workboats too. All sizes. They never cease to delight and fascinate me.
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

  23. #23
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    To pump or not to pump is the question

    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I often catch myself thinking that. But then I ponder dentistry...
    And vaccinations, and antibiotics, and, if you go back far enough, anesthesia for surgery. No thank you, I'll stay out of the time machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by downthecreek View Post
    My liking for wooden boats probably comes from the same place as my liking for living in a fifteenth century house. .
    One enormous difference between here and there. A 'very old' house in Minnesota dates to 1880, and the very few surviving buildings from before 1850 are mostly historical museums now.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  25. #25
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Everything TomF said plus it's a readily available and renewable resource, at least for what I use and where I live, that I can use to create any shape that I want.

    I enjoy combining features of traditional designs into what will be just right for my intended use and I enjoy losing myself in the work.

    I enjoy using my own strategies to accommodate the materials that I have, like strip building individual planks from lumber sawn out of short driftwood.

    For me boat designing and building wooden boats comes as close to creating something unique and alive as I can get without involving a female of the species.

    And then there's the satisfaction of launching.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    MY intrest is how fast my son can sell his wooden trollers so i can have my own life back.
    Got any pictures Bobby?

  27. #27
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    I like the sound of wood against water. I like the feel of a wooden tiller in hand. I like varnish that you spent all season shine in the late September sky.

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    I am thoroughly enjoying woodworking. My father's hobby was woodworking, and I grew up playing in his sawdust, shavings and off-cuts. That said, I find I have become somewhat addicted to boat building. Small boats. Rich Jone's signature "I was born on a wooden boat I built" seems applicable here. While my first boat is waiting for the weather to clear so I can put the finishing touches on its hull, I am already planning my next build.

    I am also beginning to find the courage (and the impetus) to begin putting lines on paper. I've long dreamed of a time when I might actually be able to sit down to design a boat.

    But above all, I enjoy sailing. Slow -- that is, when I see bodies horizontal, hanging on trapezes, I think "that's nice, I'm happy for them." But I just don't feel the need to go FAST. Which is why I enjoy sailing -- studying the water, the wind and clouds. And just simply making progress toward my destination.
    "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

  29. #29
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post

    One enormous difference between here and there. A 'very old' house in Minnesota dates to 1880, and the very few surviving buildings from before 1850 are mostly historical museums now.
    Mine is listed - on the list of historic buildings to be preserved - and is dated by the authority doing the listing back to around 1470. Even before Columbus sailed the ocean blue! There are even older houses in the village centre, though with parts going back to the fourteenth and even the thirteenth century.

    I can't claim the house is convenient, but it's full of character. Also, it's easy to heat in winter and cool in summer. Fortunately the local craftsmen and tradesmen know all about these houses, because looking after them is pretty specialised. I love it!
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

  30. #30
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by downthecreek View Post
    Mine is listed - on the list of historic buildings to be preserved - and is dated by the authority doing the listing back to around 1470.
    Lordy! Nowt but Ojibway here in 1470. I had what we call an 'old house' for a while, built in 1914.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  31. #31
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Our house is dated to about 1840. Opinions (and documents) differ though, by 15 to 20 years either way.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  32. #32
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    My interest comes from originally being a plastic boat sailor, then seeing a couple paddling a beautiful stripper canoe on Loch Ness. I had a long chat with them and admired their boat, then I just had to build one. That, and a general interest in wood working, turning etc. got me started.
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  33. #33
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Whatever I can cobble together with a few sheets of plywood
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Do they have slate roofs.

    I learned on 1700 slate roofs in NJ fixing and adding on.

    I was called here in oregon to repair some as im one of the only slate roofers here..
    No - hand made clay tiles. But I bet you could deal with these roofs if you had the tiles. Our local people often get materials from recycling yards. I had some seventeenth century brickwork inside the house repaired recently and the brickie was able to get Tudor bricks, which are a different size from modern bricks. And it has to be limewash mortar. That was quite expensive, I believe, and we found that where the mortar was thick it was padded out with rows of oyster shells.

    One clue to the dating of these houses is the amount of oak used in the structure. Houses that pre-date the expansion of shipbuilding at the time of Henry VIII have beams that are much closer together than those that came later. (Walls and ceiling are beamed)
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

  35. #35
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    Default Re: brothm edict #1

    Oar and sail boats, simply rigged, and they must be elegant

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