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Thread: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Canada is seeking an exemption to new U.S. trade restrictions on aluminum and steel, and is vowing to retaliate if it's slapped with any new tariffs.Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called the proposal "absolutely unacceptable," echoing the phrase used by Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland yesterday.
    A government official, speaking on background, said Canada believes any new tariffs should not apply to this country due to the highly integrated nature of the North American steel market, and because of the close co-operation between the two countries on defence issues.
    A final decision from U.S. President Donald Trump is expected next week. Meanwhile, the Canadian government is discussing what its next steps will be if Washington doesn't order an exemption.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stee...rump-1.4558967
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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by blacksmith View Post
    I wonder if anyone in the Whitehouse or Republican congress is aware of the 1931 Hawley -Smoot tariff and its catastrophic result? (the Great Depression of the 1930s)
    Perhaps not; Ferris Bueller's Day Off may be too high brow for some of them.


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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Bravo Chris !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    I heard one analyst say today that for each American steel job saved by this measure, 80 other American jobs in industries that make stuff out of steel and alumninum will be adversely affected.
    Voting is like driving a car: Choose "R" to move backwards. Choose "D" to move forward.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249

    I'm thinking this represents Donald Trump's personal experience of a typical Economics 101 class at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





  6. #76
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by blacksmith View Post
    I wonder if anyone in the Whitehouse or Republican congress is aware of the 1931 Hawley -Smoot tariff and its catastrophic result? (the Great Depression of the 1930s)
    You take your comment as truth. But a number of economists have different opinions. In particular, one needs to look at all of the circumstances and options at the time.

    The current tariffs seem too small to affect finished product prices enough to matter. But given that many retail investors claim their economic gains are losses, I don't expect truth to prevail over politics.

    Personally, I think the tariffs are decades too late to keep the world economy moving in a positive direction.
    Life is complex.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time
    You take your comment as truth. But a number of economists have different opinions. In particular, one needs to look at all of the circumstances and options at the time.

    The current tariffs seem too small to affect finished product prices enough to matter.
    Stick around and tell us what you think 8 months from now.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





  8. #78
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    This is about the Blue Wall that Trump kicked down in 2016. Reagan Democrats. Big tent. Big Labor.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    That goes for you as well, Blooey. Stick around and tell us what you think 8 months from now.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





  10. #80
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    You take your comment as truth. But a number of economists have different opinions. In particular, one needs to look at all of the circumstances and options at the time.

    The current tariffs seem too small to affect finished product prices enough to matter. But given that many retail investors claim their economic gains are losses, I don't expect truth to prevail over politics.

    Personally, I think the tariffs are decades too late to keep the world economy moving in a positive direction.
    'Decades too late" is not really accurate. In 2002 Bush tried steel tariffs as well and that bombed also.

    According to a 2005 review of existing research, all studies on the tariffs "find that the costs of the Safeguard Measures outweighed their benefits in terms of aggregate GDP and employment as well as having an important redistributive impact."[1]

    Steel production rose slightly during the period of the tariff. [7] The protection of the steel industry in the United States may have had unintended consequences and perverse effects. A study from 2003 that was paid for by CITAC, a trade association of businesses that use raw materials, found that around 200,000 jobs were lost as a resul
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_U...s_steel_tariff
    Tom

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  11. #81
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Stick around and tell us what you think 8 months from now.
    Will you remember in 8 months? I don't think I will. There will be many other shiney topics to distract us.
    Life is complex.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Gawd Almighty:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...icials-n852641

    God's teeth, perhaps he can croak from a coronary before he kills us all, either financially or physically.
    Gerard>
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  13. #83
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    'Decades too late" is not really accurate. In 2002 Bush tried steel tariffs as well and that bombed also.
    I was thinking further back than that. The government has had policies that promoted offshoring manufacturing for a long time. Tariffs would have had to been prior to the offshoring. They were not.

    We went a different way. We are now here. Tariffs will not bring back jobs. Tariffs will not affect life much at all. Wrong tool to accomplish what many people would like to have happen - a better more equal economy.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    ...and this guy is a Republican?
    Wow, they claimed to be Liberals or Democrats... But they are so concerned for the Richy Riches and a little market correction...


    Are we sure they are Corporate Democrats?... oh yea.

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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    And these tariffs are going to make guns way more expensive, did dRumpf even think about that
    Don't worry I'm happy

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  16. #86
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    .
    Why Trump’s fist-shaking tariff talk won’t translate to action:


    How does the president think his new tariffs will play in Congress and statehouses, as voters spot higher prices and businesses grapple with botched supply chains?

    Outside of the steel and aluminum industries, there is no natural constituency for these tariffs, other than those who see any assertion of American power, in any form, as a good thing. The “shake the fist” vote would applaud any unilateral American action that gives the world a middle finger, but the pocketbook vote is likely many times larger.

    The naked assertion of executive power again shows Trump’s gift at putting himself in the center of any story. But there is a long road from trade-war tweets to actual trade-wars, and a long road to go before the stroke of a pen and the announcement of an action leads to the breakdown of a global system. Here as elsewhere, the casual upending of norms and the hell-with-it approach create uncertainty and cast the United States as an unreliable partner. As yet, however, much of what Trump has done has been halted, reversed, or watered down, and there is little reason to believe that these tariffs will fare any better. The sound and fury presidency remains alive and well, but whether it will signify much remains a very open question.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c95ce447bc21
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





  17. #87

    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    First he was going to build a wall and Mexico was going to pay for it, next I won't take time of to golf like Obama did, then he was going to repeal Obama care, then he was going to pick the best people 50 resignations and 3 guilty pleas and multiple indictments, then he was going to cut taxes for the middle class almost all of it went to the 1%, then it was gun control he flip flopped over night, now it's tariffs one steel alum and shots fired at European cars if they get involved, Trump is mentally unstable paper tiger I don't believe tariffs will ever happen in fact I believe very little of what comes out of his mouth.

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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    If this tariff is actually put into effect - rather than simply being a NAFTA "negotiating" bluff - and it results in American job losses... will Trump own up to the fact that his tariff policy sucked and the job losses are his responsibility?

    I'd bet the answer would be "NO."
    i wonder when other countries begin announcing very specific taxes and tariffs on trump properties and hotels

    trade wars are good and easily won
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    nobody noticed that an old friend of The Donald's may have had some insider info?

    https://www.npr.org/2018/03/03/59058...related-stocks
    "'Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil."

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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    nobody noticed that an old friend of The Donald's may have had some insider info?

    https://www.npr.org/2018/03/03/59058...related-stocks
    Yes I saw that a few days ago.
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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Do you have any kind of organisation pursuing and prosecuting insider trading ?
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  22. #92
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    The tariffs will greatly strengthen the hand of JRM and the hard Brexiteers.

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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    JRM and the hard Brexiteers.
    douchebags
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    douchebags
    Are you a zelot?

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Do you have any kind of organisation pursuing and prosecuting insider trading ?
    I thought someone might know, it's a serious crime here.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  26. #96
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    it is a serious crime and while I doubt the Feds will go after Icahn due to his connections with The Donald, I would not put it past the local Attorneys General from the individual states involved. We all know that New York State would love to sink their teeth into The Donald's holdings, they might like a taste of Icahn to hold them over for now
    "'Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil."

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  27. #97
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    He'd be doing time here. insider trading is a big no,no.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  28. #98
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    A loose cannon as a President, or maybe a loose cruise missile launcher is more accurate these days.

    Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein
    ...and this guy is a Republican?


    No he's not, he just took over the party and the GOP label is just a convenience.


  29. #99
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    nobody noticed that an old friend of The Donald's may have had some insider info?

    https://www.npr.org/2018/03/03/59058...related-stocks
    So someone sells stock before it falls and it becomes insider trading. (We only know he bought or sold because he held over 5% of the company's stock.)

    You might look at the price history of the stock. It may paint a different picture. It seems the price was down quit a bit from the recent high.
    Life is complex.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    So someone sells stock before it falls and it becomes insider trading. (We only know he bought or sold because he held over 5% of the company's stock.)

    You might look at the price history of the stock. It may paint a different picture. It seems the price was down quit a bit from the recent high.
    Carl Icahn is not just someone and you know that. Quit being so disingenuous.
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Trump just won over the rust belt, gonna bring jobs.

    Libs hate fly over country.

    Trump.... great for our workers.....
    many of the rust belt workers I know are pissed because he just made their company less competitive globally. Lots more industrys that consume steel & aluminum than there are that make them.

    A typically Trumpian own-goal. Poised to unite the world against a predatory China, he unites the world against the US while China laughs and grows stronger.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    Carl Icahn is not just someone and you know that. Quit being so disingenuous.
    Exactly. Icahn and The Donald's business dealings go back at least a decade in Atlantic City. They two are as close to "friends" people like that can get. If I had sold 5% of that stock, it could possibly be considered good luck, for Icahn to do it, the deal smells fishy
    "'Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil."

    C.S. Lewis

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    Carl Icahn is not just someone and you know that. Quit being so disingenuous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    Exactly. Icahn and The Donald's business dealings go back at least a decade in Atlantic City. They two are as close to "friends" people like that can get. If I had sold 5% of that stock, it could possibly be considered good luck, for Icahn to do it, the deal smells fishy
    Icahn is worth $17 billion. He sold $30 million in stock. He avoided a $2 million drop in market value. Hardly a significant change of either his investment or financial positions.

    I (as well in the financial industry) suspect the company's financial position had more to do with the stock's price change than the announcement of a tariff. I am sure the SEC will investigate if it feels it is appropriate.
    Life is complex.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway
    many of the rust belt workers I know are pissed because he just made their company less competitive globally. Lots more industrys that consume steel & aluminum than there are that make them.
    It's not just the rust belt. The Trump tariff job losses begin in Tennessee:

    After announcing in January a $250 million plant expansion in Springfield, Sweden's Electrolux reported Friday that its plans are now on hold.

    Reuters first reported that the company, Europe's largest home appliance manufacturer, was delaying its Tennessee investment after President Donald Trump announced Thursday new tariffs on imported aluminum and steel.

    Electrolux's investment plans included modernizing and adding 400,000 square feet to the Springfield plant, construction on which was slated to begin later this year.

    "Unfortunately, this decision gives foreign appliance manufacturers a cost advantage that is hard to compete against," Electrolux spokesperson Eloise Hale said in a statement to USA TODAY NETWORK - Tennessee.

    Hale said the company was still evaluating the tariff announcement, but is so concerned about the potential negative financial impact that it has gone ahead and put the Springfield expansion project on hold until Trump's order is signed and final details are clear.

    All of the carbon steel the company uses in its U.S. manufacturing plants comes from American steel mills, Hale said.

    In a statement to Reuters, Daniel Frykholm, another company spokesperson, said executives believed the tariffs could "cause a pretty significant increase in the price of steel on the U.S. market," and "could damage the overall competitiveness of (Electrolux's) operations in the U.S."

    The tariffs, 25 percent on steel and 10 percent on aluminum imports, will be formally announced next week as the White House works out additional details on the new duties.

    The company has multiple factory locations in Tennessee, including Springfield and Memphis.

    Last year company officials began a $20 million expansion in Springfield that would simplify operations at the manufacturing plant. It was a project that overlapped a larger $25 million expansion announced in 2016, bringing its local investment in recent years to nearly $300 million.

    Crews are still working on the 2017 project, set to be completed in 2019, but the 2016 project that added 25 jobs and 25,000 square feet to the facility has been completed, said spokeswoman Eloise Hale.

    Ten years after receiving a $188 million economic development incentive package from Memphis and Shelby County for 1,240 promised jobs, Electrolux had eliminated 17 percent of the jobs at the Memphis factory, but invested well over what it had initially planned.

    Electrolux had first promised an investment of $195 million in Memphis, but eventually spent $306 million for equipment at the plant.

    Gov. Bill Haslam's office wasn't immediately available for comment Friday evening.

    http://www.wbir.com/article/news/loc...t/51-525216590

    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 03-04-2018 at 12:20 PM.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





  35. #105
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    Default Re: Trump announces steel and aluminum tariffs.... the market drops 500 pts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    It's not just the rust belt. The Trump tariff job losses begin in Tennessee:

    Ten years after receiving a $188 million economic development incentive package from Memphis and Shelby County for 1,240 promised jobs, Electrolux had eliminated 17 percent of the jobs at the Memphis factory
    Job losses have little to do with tariffs. Businesses have economic agendas.
    Life is complex.

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