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Thread: Pre-catalyzed epoxy paint?

  1. #1
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    Mar 2009
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    Default Pre-catalyzed epoxy paint?

    I stumbled across a reference to this stuff. Sounded like bull from the title but I pulled up a couple of folks saying it was pretty good.

    Any wisdom from the group. It violates my rudimentary understanding of two-part epoxy. Or is it just an enamel or acrylic dressed up as epoxy?

    See e.g.: https://www.valsparpaint.com/en/find...zed-epoxy.html

  2. #2
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    Oriental, NC USA
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    Default Re: Pre-catalyzed epoxy paint?

    Don't know anything about the paint but, epoxy paint does not work with a catalyst. That is not the chemistry of epoxy. Interesting to know what it really is.
    Tom L

  3. #3
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    Oct 2009
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    Solomons, MD USA
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    Default Re: Pre-catalyzed epoxy paint?

    Interesting, but ...

    Docs say it is an interior paint - an epoxy not suitable for outdoors? - also says do not thin, probably a show stopper for me. Still, I would experiment with a 1/2 pint can on something for the house.

    Joe

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Pre-catalyzed epoxy paint?

    Not clear at all what it is. Some relevant bits, beyond those mentioned above --

    1. Contains acrylic resin - there is no acrylic in epoxy.

    2. Contains 'epoxy polymer' - ok... and what else?

    3. 'Pre-catalyzed' - That would be a first for me. Never heard of any actual epoxy chemistry that would allow that in the same way that some lacquer formulations allow pre-catalyzation.

    4. Clearly, as an opaque product, it contains pigments. If it was epoxy, those pigments would provide UV protection, allowing exterior use. They say 'no'.

    5. Marketing departments have little/no allegiance to facts/chemistry. It's that approach that allows them to label something as 'Tung Oil Finish' that contains mostly linseed oil and solvents... and zero or nominal amounts of tung oil. Perhaps that same mindset it in play here.


    I'd say this would take a pointed conversation with Valspar to get some clarity.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Pre-catalyzed epoxy paint?

    My take on the subject is that both the "epoxy" paints (I have "epoxy" appliance enamel on the aluminum mast and boom of my iceboat and an "epoxy concrete and garage floor paint" on my big fur trade canoe, both of which are holding up well) and the pre-cat stuff (I've used Enduro Pre-Cat varnish made for kitchen cabinets on guitar clear coats and also tinted all the way to opaque metalflake at times) is that they both may be a bit tougher and harder than their non-epoxy, non-catalyzed cousins. I haven't seen any evidence yet that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread though, and they really don't seem to have much of anything to do with the typical uses we have here for epoxy resins. If I use one, it will generally be mostly for its other characteristics (color offerings, workability/sprayability/ sand and polish-ability, etc.) and any extra toughness is a bonus. Some of the more sophisticated versions also have a pretty specific desired coating thickness, which needs to be adhered to. Too thick or too thin can have mechanical problems, like cracking, for example.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Pre-catalyzed epoxy paint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    My take on the subject is that both the "epoxy" paints (I have "epoxy" appliance enamel on the aluminum mast and boom of my iceboat and an "epoxy concrete and garage floor paint" on my big fur trade canoe, both of which are holding up well) and the pre-cat stuff (I've used Enduro Pre-Cat varnish made for kitchen cabinets on guitar clear coats and also tinted all the way to opaque metalflake at times) is that they both may be a bit tougher and harder than their non-epoxy, non-catalyzed cousins. I haven't seen any evidence yet that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread though, and they really don't seem to have much of anything to do with the typical uses we have here for epoxy resins. If I use one, it will generally be mostly for its other characteristics (color offerings, workability/sprayability/ sand and polish-ability, etc.) and any extra toughness is a bonus. Some of the more sophisticated versions also have a pretty specific desired coating thickness, which needs to be adhered to. Too thick or too thin can have mechanical problems, like cracking, for example.
    Just to address that the 'pre-cat' aspect a bit. They are definitely tougher, by almost every measure, than an old-fashioned nitrocellulose lacquer - which is the next less sophisticated step/product. Post-catalyzed lacquer is the next step up, with other formulations of catalyzed finished (like conversion varnish) even tougher.

    If you're looking to quantify those differences - astm does testing. So does KCMA (Kitchen Cabinet Mfg. Assn.) for kitchen cabinetry. And I think the AWI (Architectural Woodwork Institute) does some as well for finishes in the architectural woodwork realm.

    They test for everything from various sorts of adhesion to abrasion resistance to resistance to various foods and chemicals.

    Oil-based product is the benchmark. Water-based product is still not quite up to the same levels of performance... though they keep getting better.

    AFIK 'epoxy' paints, like the appliance repair enamels, contain no epoxy at all. It's just a way to convey that they are tougher (so they say, I've never read the testing) than a typical alkyd enamel.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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