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Thread: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

  1. #1
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    Default Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Hi all,

    I realize there have been a number of LYS posts, but had a few questions so thought I would start my own and post as I progress. Plan is to build a LYS with center console so I can fly fish Norwalk islands with my father. It is nice and stable and given my boat building history (1 opti for my daughter) inside my capabilities. To date I have used quality marine ply and white oak for the stems. Pics attached, I am at the chine stage in the build process.

    -Any thoughts on quality wood for 2x8 portions?

    -I have had a ton of issues stripping and breaking stainless steal screws with white oak. I am using a 9/64 pilot for 10 gauge 3 inch screws and the 8 gauge 2 1/2 and having major issues (see pics). I bought the batch from Jamestown not sure if the 316 SS are soft or bad batch? Given the issues wondering if is worth putting a through bolt in as the white oak is like steel.


    -Plans for bottom are 1 layer of epoxy, 1 layer of 6oz glass epoxy, 1-2 layers of epoxy/fairing before paint.

    -I want to put floor boards in, likely cedar, but already hear my father cursing as his fly line gets stuck or fly. Any ideas here.

    -Walt states 25-30hp, but thinking 35 hp. Thanks for thoughts/opinions!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by duckgybe; 02-25-2018 at 10:31 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    one of the reasons I hate SS wood screws. All I can say is what we've done. run hardened FWD and REV (square or torx) deck screws in and out until they bottom the head, then do the waxed SS screw.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Stainless is brittle - I've sheared-off my share.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Understand this is coming from a forum member that is yet to build a boat, but will be building the LYS first.

    While I haven't built a boat, I have built numerous items out of white oak. It's a tough material. coupled with the fact that the stainless screws are brittle (as others have mentioned) it will make for multiple sheared screws. Take your time.

    The cedar floor boards would look nice, but they will definitely present a challenge in terms of dropped tackle. If you check Walter's FaceBook page, he has detailed the build of a 20' LYS with a self bailing deck. Solid marine plywood as I recall. That would do the trick.

    As to powering the boat, Walter knows what he is talking about. If you read through the other build threads on here you will see that the recommendations are spot on. Unless it is just a matter of the 35 being more readily available, then I'd stick with a 30hp engine.

    What ever you do, keep posting pictures. They seem to like that here. I know that I for one, will be following with great interest as I will soon be building one myself.

    Best of luck.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Forget stainless screws. Use coated deck screws and the the right size pilot bit.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!


    19 ft, oak on oak, my guess I used 500-600 A4 SS screws. None failed.
    But perhaps European oak is not as tough as American white oak? Or that plywood vs solid wood makes the difference?

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    you might try pre-drilling w/ HILLMAN STAR DRIVE DECK SCREWS

    those things have a SELF DRILLING/TAPPING feature that is just jam handy

    and the subsequent hole should be real close to fitting (i'm using their coated ones on a coupla "el-cheapo" builds. should know in a gazillion years or so how well the coating works)

    and if my remembery serves me at all... they come in SS also

    HAVE FUN W/ THE BUILD

    and keep the pics coming

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    My thought was leaning towards something like this, essentially the same thing as the '20 with slightly different look.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    What plywood are you using? The plywood I see in your photos looks like the material sold at HD/Lowes for sub $8/sheet. I experimented with that material (made in China) and it failed miserably. I hope you are using better stuff.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Plywood is all marine grade Meranti (1/2in) or Okoume (3/4in) and stems white oak, 2x8 philippine mahogany, chines SITKA SPRUCE B...

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    What plywood are you using? The plywood I see in your photos looks like the material sold at HD/Lowes for sub $8/sheet. I experimented with that material (made in China) and it failed miserably. I hope you are using better stuff.
    Looks like Joubert's label in the first pic . . . .
    "Where we would wish to reform we must not reproach." -Thomas Paine

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Looks like you are building the 16 footer? If that cannot be made with a self-bailing cockpit sole, perhaps, instead of snaggy, traditional floorboards, you might use sheets of plywood into which many 1-inch holes are drilled. This will allow spray and casual water to drain below, and, while not snag-free, will be less snaggy than floorboards.

    Or, build floorboards and when flyfishing drop in some pre-cut pieces of low nap outdoor carpet.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    looking good.

    jim

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Curious if the screw problems could be due to using a single size pilot drill that doesn't accommodate the thicker non-threaded shaft just below the head. I've had enough brass wood screw shear off (especially in longer lengths) that I got a set of counterbores from a big box store. If I recall correctly, the set includes counterbores for #6, #8, and #10 sizes. For longer screws, use the appropriate pilot to extend the depth of the threaded portion. Good luck!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    duckgybe,

    Looking good! The chines gave me fits for most of a day, but finally with a combo of pre-bend and lots of clamps, they behaved. I have seen several builds where the chines were steamed. One other thing on the chines if it is not too late: cut the top edge of the chine so it slopes into the boat instead of leaving it square. One less place for water to collect. I wish I had done this.

    As far as stainless screws, I used a pilot/countersink combo bit and had very few broken SS screws. My 2x6 and 2x8 lumber was just standard lumberyard fare (I think doug fir). I wish now (at the finishing stage) that I had been more selective on which boards I used because of all the knots and dings I had to fair and fill.

    As to the motor, a friend who build a LYS locally has a 25hp four stroke and says it is scary fast. I have a 25 2 stroke and will report speeds when I splash in a month or so. Just some info, your boat you do what you think is right.

    I did the same as you plan with 6 oz glass on the outside of the hull. Also did 6 oz glass on inside with dynel as non-skid. Certainly adds strength, but the doug fir plywood I used is notorious for checking, so I used the 6 oz glass to solve that problem as well.

    My build is here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...uild-Plans-582

    Anyway, good on you for adding to the LYS fleet! Post pictures, we do love them.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    On small boats, I've experimented with attaching the chine to the plywood sides before bending into shape. I extended the chine over the edge of the ply to allow planing flat to the bottom once in place. It worked very well

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Cedar floorboards sure are nice. Warm and pleasant underfoot, and look great. I like Kevin's idea of putting carpet over them while fishing, but you could try it a bit and see if it really is an issue. One thing I would suggest (unless you go with a self bailing cockpit) is to make the floorboards in removable sections. I did this on my crab skiff Cricket, and it's easy to keep the bilge clean and inspected. These cedar floorboard sections are over 10 years old, and get a coat of boat soup (pine tar, linseed oil, turps, and japan drier) every year.




    The floors are in 3 sections, kind of like dory grates. Port and stbd forward, and 1 section aft.

    So, on our Point Comfort 23, we fastened the individual boards down to the floor timbers. But you can't see what's going on down there without removing a couple boards. Last year I made up my mind to cleat the center sections together and make them removable to get in and clean the bilge periodically. Just today we removed the boards to refinish them, and here is what we found!



    I wondered why my anchor locker up fwd wasn't draining. With the sections removable, I can get in there and hose out the bilge at the dock easily. Can't wait to refinish these. The Deks Olje did not do much to protect the wood. Boat soup this time around.

    Keep the pics coming. You are doing what looks like a nice, neat job on your LYS. Looking forward the rollover!
    Cricket

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Cricket:

    What's the recipe for the boat soup? Equal parts of each ingredient or is there a formula?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Duckgybe,
    Looks like you are doing a really neat job with that build. Congratulations and welcome to the forum.

    White oak is a real bear to fasten to. Dry white oak... ​Grisly Bear!!
    You need to test the pilot hole until the screws don't wring off.
    Forget the "#10 bit fits #10 screw" with white oak. Increase the bit size, and especially the depth and shank clearance as schoonerjay says.
    if you are using the tapered bit/countersink/counterbore bits then by increasing the depth, you increase the shank diameter. The are really only made for one depth and work with softer wood if you shorten the depth.
    This may mean two (or three) different drill bit sizes and operations.
    I have had luck using a smaller size Fuller bit to drill counterbore/countersink and using just the tapered bit of a larger size to drill for the threads and shank.
    And, again, test drill, test drill, test drill.
    Lubricate the threads as per Denise030
    Good luck.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Maximus, I have used the recipe I found in Hamilton Marine's catalog a few years ago. 1qt. boiled linseed oil, 1 qt. turps, 1/2 pt. each pine tar and japan drier. Some people add spar varnish to the mix, and more or less pine tar, and some people use tung oil instead of boiled linseed. Would be more expensive, but might not turn as dark. I like the idea of adding some varnish. On Cricket, the boat is dry sailed and covered when not in use, so I never had the finish turn black. That might not be the case if left in the sun 24-7. You could also try Kirby's Salty Dog, premixed formula. I've never had a problem with the finish being sticky, after it dries for a couple of days.

    I'll let you know what I end up using on The Point Comfort this time around.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Thanks Cricket. Snap a few pics when you do. I like looking at that boat. it's a wonderful design and yours turned out exceptionally nice.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    Thanks all. Got hit with the flu/pneumonia, so fell behind schedule. Will post some picks of the chines in a few, as they do things never go to plan. The chines ran higher than the plywood lines in some places and lower in others. Think will be fine with an electric planer. And there ended up being a gab on the front chine <-> stem which I will fill in. The ugliest step to date, but hopefully will make it pretty with plane/sanding. IMG_2081.JPGIMG_2080.jpgIMG_2079.jpg


    @jim_cricket I was thinking exactly along the lines you had posted. One question how do you fasten the floor board sectionals to the hull in a way that is easy to remove?
    Last edited by duckgybe; 03-12-2018 at 11:34 AM.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Lumber Yard Skiff... another one!

    My boats have either had frames across the bottom like Cricket, or floor timbers like the PC23. I make frames for the floorboard sections that are the same height, and put turnbuttons on the fixed floor timbers to hold the sections down. If you have no floor timbers, you could fasten 2x2 cleats across the bottom like a dory, stopping short of the chines, and with a C/L limber for drainage. Use the same cleats under the floor sections, and use turn buttons on the fixed cleats. Divide the sections up as seems manageable. It's easier on a flat bottom than a vee or round, as the heights of the cleats can remain constant.

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