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Thread: A well regulated militia

  1. #1
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    Default A well regulated militia

    What is the NRAs position on this? The Second Amendment is pretty clear. The Right to bear arms only applies if you are in a “well regulated militia”. What mental gymnastics do the NRA use to explain this obvious fact away? Their spokesperson shamelessly avoided this question the other night when asked by the survivors of the mass shooting Florida.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    What is the NRAs position on this? The Second Amendment is pretty clear. The Right to bear arms only applies if you are in a “well regulated militia”. What mental gymnastics do the NRA use to explain this obvious fact away? Their spokesperson shamelessly avoided this question the other night when asked by the survivors of the mass shooting Florida.
    Sorry, but that fight was already lost... and relatively recently, when the Supreme Court overturned nearly two centuries of precedent, in redefining the 2nd amendment right as an individual, not a collective, right.

    Prior to that decision, which occurred just a few years ago, there was long precedent for the 2nd amendment as being only a collective right.

    District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee. Due to Washington, D.C.'s special status as a federal district, the decision did not address the question of whether the Second Amendment's protections are incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment against the states,[1] which was addressed two years later by McDonald v. City of Chicago (2010) in which it was found that they are. It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.[2]

    On June 26, 2008, the Supreme Court affirmed the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit in Heller v. District of Columbia.[3][4] The Supreme Court struck downprovisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 as unconstitutional, determined that handguns are "arms" for the purposes of the Second Amendment, found that the Regulations Act was an unconstitutional ban, and struck down the portion of the Regulations Act that requires all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock". Prior to this decision the Firearms Control Regulation Act of 1975 also restricted residents from owning handguns except for those registered prior to 1975.


    The majority opinion, written by Justice Antonin Scalia, and the primary dissenting opinion, written by Justice John Paul Stevens, are considered examples of the application of originalism in practice.[5]
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    That is why it is so important that Kennedy retires soon. Trump has many faults but towing the line when needed has been surprising.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    A Republican Sen. In FLA Legislature made it pretty clear where his priorities are. Said he was against banning guns like the MR 15 as it's a Constitutional right of gun owners to have them. It's obviously way more important than a student's right to life though which is also in the Constitution.

    You folks who obviously agree with this are bloody sick! Nothing will change now, nothing has changed in the past. regulated militia, they don't think that phrase applies in the Constitution. They have their own interpretation of the second.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    If your safe in the knowledge that the 2n protects the assault rifles, google Scalia Assault rifles and read about the Heller decision. The legendary jurist affirmed the individuals right to guns but not all guns.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    So basically the NRA subverted the intent of the Second Amendment through the Supreme Court.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    So basically the NRA subverted the intent of the Second Amendment through the Supreme Court.
    That's the way I see it!

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    I can respect a well regulated militia.












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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    So basically the NRA subverted the intent of the Second Amendment through the Supreme Court.
    I think that goes too far. Gun culture in the US long predates the NRA, and is much more widespread. As an earlier post showed, only a small percentage of gun owners are actually NRA members.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Read what Gen. Burnsides, the 1st President of the NRA says about the Second Amendment!

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Those who have trouble with the notion of "well regulated" seem to ignore the fact of how much of our civilian population is military, ex military, law enforcement etc. A great deal of who is well before retirement age and a lot of those who are at least somewhat current with modern military.

    Growing up through the trades when I did, had me pretty much the non-military minority, with most of my mentors having served from WW2-VN.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    I have read here and there, people using Switzerland as an example of high gun ownership and low shootings, but all Swiss ( within age and other qualifications such as physical ability) are required to be members of their defence force, all attend training, all have uniforms and are members of a "Well regulated militia". They have guns, but very few problems arising from them.


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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    The new well regulated militia, meet the Bundy's


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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    What is the NRAs position on this? The Second Amendment is pretty clear. The Right to bear arms only applies if you are in a “well regulated militia”. What mental gymnastics do the NRA use to explain this obvious fact away? Their spokesperson shamelessly avoided this question the other night when asked by the survivors of the mass shooting Florida.
    This is a dead issue, for the foreseeable future. The Supreme Court has ruled that the right is an individual right. The only way around this is to amend the constitution, or wait til the Supreme Court is in the hands of new judges.
    Well, Mr. Botard, do you still deny all rhinocerotic evidence?

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I have read here and there, people using Switzerland as an example of high gun ownership and low shootings, but all Swiss ( within age and other qualifications such as physical ability) are required to be members of their defence force, all attend training, all have uniforms and are members of a "Well regulated militia". They have guns, but very few problems arising from them.


    John Welsford
    Its an apples and anvil comparison. The Swiss conscripts keep their weapons at home, but I don’t believe they are allowed to have ammunition.
    They do a lot of competitive shooting, but it is highly regulated like everything else in Switzerland.
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Its an apples and anvil comparison. The Swiss conscripts keep their weapons at home, but I don’t believe they are allowed to have ammunition.
    They do a lot of competitive shooting, but it is highly regulated like everything else in Switzerland.
    And there are strict regulations about how the guns are stored.
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Copperud: "No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia…The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence.”

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Supreme Courts make mistakes. As I recall reading that last decision, they had to do some linguistical gymnastics to get 'keep' to mean 'own'.

    In context, the 'arms" (it does NOT say guns) the people had the right to keep were the arms the government supplied to the Militia.

    The 2nd clearly states it is there because of the need to maintain a well regulated Militia. That need ended when we had regular armies, police, National Guard, etc. Once we no longer needed the militia, the 2nd should have become as moot as the 3rd.

    While the entire debates continues to be about 'guns', I wish people would concentrate on 'arms'
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    The whole concept of the citizen-militia for the security of a free state is laughably antiquated.

    All of the privately owned weaponry (and I'll grant; it's an impressive lot) will amount to less than a speedbump against the will of the state and its weaponry.
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    The whole concept of the citizen-militia for the security of a free state is laughably antiquated.

    All of the privately owned weaponry (and I'll grant; it's an impressive lot) will amount to less than a speedbump against the will of the state and its weaponry.
    ^^^
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Sure: Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Sure: Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
    And that has to do with what exactly mdh?Oh wait, a well regulated militia would have have stopped this from happening!

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaseLockedLoop View Post
    This is a dead issue, for the foreseeable future. The Supreme Court has ruled that the right is an individual right. The only way around this is to amend the constitution, or wait til the Supreme Court is in the hands of new judges.
    Hopefully it won’t take until Emma Gonzalez is appointed to the Supreme Court.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia


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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Yep.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I have read here and there, people using Switzerland as an example of high gun ownership and low shootings, but all Swiss ( within age and other qualifications such as physical ability) are required to be members of their defence force, all attend training, all have uniforms and are members of a "Well regulated militia". They have guns, but very few problems arising from them.


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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    The whole concept of the citizen-militia for the security of a free state is laughably antiquated.

    All of the privately owned weaponry (and I'll grant; it's an impressive lot) will amount to less than a speedbump against the will of the state and its weaponry.
    The mud hut living goat herders in Afghanistan have done pretty good against the might of the US military.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    The mud hut living goat herders in Afghanistan have done pretty good against the might of the US military.
    You forget that the Afghani people know this game, probably better than the US army. They beat the Russians, and before that the English, they're well supported, well trained, well equipped and very practiced. 16 years and no sign of an end. Regardless of what you think of their motivation, those are smart, tough people.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    You forget that the Afghani people know this game, probably better than the US army. They beat the Russians, and before that the English, they're well supported, well trained, well equipped and very practiced. 16 years and no sign of an end. Regardless of what you think of their motivation, those are smart, tough people.

    John Welsford
    When the US first went I said it was a mistake, these people are still peeved with Alexander.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    What is the NRAs position on this? The Second Amendment is pretty clear. The Right to bear arms only applies if you are in a “well regulated militia”. What mental gymnastics do the NRA use to explain this obvious fact away? Their spokesperson shamelessly avoided this question the other night when asked by the survivors of the mass shooting Florida.
    Perhaps the very thing America needs to guard its citizens, young and old, against their mad, "patriotic", unregulated, gun toting fellow citizens is a well regulated militia?
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by downthecreek View Post
    Perhaps the very thing America needs to guard its citizens, young and old, against their mad, "patriotic", unregulated, gun toting fellow citizens is a well regulated militia?
    An excellent idea ! Time to form Well Regulated Militias, if only to guard your schools.
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by downthecreek View Post
    Perhaps the very thing America needs to guard its citizens, young and old, against their mad, "patriotic", unregulated, gun toting fellow citizens is a well regulated militia?
    They have one already called the National Guard. Just so long as they do not let them near any centre of learning.
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    They have one already called the National Guard. Just so long as they do not let them near any centre of learning.
    Just so. And so........?
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    The Second Amendment is pretty clear.
    roflmao
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    Default Re: A well regulated militia

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I have read here and there, people using Switzerland as an example of high gun ownership and low shootings, but all Swiss ( within age and other qualifications such as physical ability) are required to be members of their defence force, all attend training, all have uniforms and are members of a "Well regulated militia". They have guns, but very few problems arising from them.


    John Welsford
    On a sunny Sunday afternoon in ´78, a Swiss friend met me at the airport and drove me to his home in Villingen, on the outskirts; he had just put away his Swiss Army issue automatic rifle, weighing 4 kilos and still smelling of cordite, as the men had just finished blasting away during a target practice meet.

    Learnt that attacking/killing a person in Switzerland with ANY Swiss Army issue firearm is a criminal offence that defies bail, meaning you rot in jail till the final sentence (crime infiancável in Portuguese).

    You may use, if you must, a smuggled/counterfeit weapon or whatever, not the sacred item. Very few problems arise, yes.

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