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Thread: Another new proa rig

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Thanks for posting the videos of Ana-Varu, I had not seen them. Sadly I don’t speak German but I can get the general drift of his design. This more like a modern interpretation of traditional rigs rather, the track is there to control the foot of the mast while shutting rather than to steer the craft with.

    His outboard motor setup looks like a disaster waiting to happed.

    Took my wooden boat up to the club yesterday, still icy up here mind, but season starts in a week. The boat shed is now clear so after a bit of tidying I can work on a model of my rig and my sailing canoe. When I designed the canoe I gave it fore and aft symmetry, some where deep inside me I must have been thinking about building another proa.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Moving the 30ft Pahi went fine........this was achieved with a 1/2 ton garden trailer using an extended drawbar.

    My friend Marcus supplied the grunt and took care of almost all the toil involving brackets, props and suchlike. While busy, he voiced the opinion that it should be possible to go junk rig (he is an avid junk rig enthusiast), to which I added that yes, this had ben thought of. So attached should be a sketch to show how I might go about doing this.Balestron Junk Rig Proa.jpgBalestron Junk Rig Proa.jpgBalestron Junk Rig Proa.jpg

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    I'm interested to hear about that unusual hull and why it is so.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Tink, you didn't miss much by not speaking german, it's mainly talk about the intending sailing along the migration route. I agree about the outboard, even the general arrangement is bad for a long upwind voyage. The Lapita voyage had the same problems, wet and unconfortable. Here another video, in english this time, and featuring another sail, reminds me of the Fiji sails, I supose it has some sort of sprit.


  5. #40
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Lugalong I think you just invented the junk rig version of the aerorig. Looks good but you have to raise the boom above head level for safety. Sheeting angles may be a problem as drawn, but the sheetlets can be on the side of the sail, not necessaraly at the luff. The rudders are going to be a handfull in this configuration, maybe viking style rudders would be better. Ontong Java 2 and Manu Rere use them with good success, and they can be retracted. I understand this is to be a shunter with the accomodations in the windward hull? Maybe a tacker would be better?

    Timo the hull mimics the traditional construction of a dugout with buildt up sides. The superstructure can be pointed, or be a flat board like it is done in Papua New Guineea.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    For me Russel Browns Jzerro seams hard to beat

    https://youtu.be/drraHSwODPw

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by timo4352 View Post
    I'm interested to hear about that unusual hull and why it is so.


    to oblige with your request and also with others on the forum, I will need to start a new thread in order to avoid thread drift.
    Keep an eye out for an SO Pahi thread.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    Lugalong I think you just invented the junk rig version of the aerorig. Looks good but you have to raise the boom above head level for safety. Sheeting angles may be a problem as drawn, but the sheetlets can be on the side of the sail, not necessaraly at the luff. The rudders are going to be a handfull in this configuration, maybe viking style rudders would be better. Ontong Java 2 and Manu Rere use them with good success, and they can be retracted. I understand this is to be a shunter with the accomodations in the windward hull? Maybe a tacker would be better?

    Timo the hull mimics the traditional construction of a dugout with buildt up sides. The superstructure can be pointed, or be a flat board like it is done in Papua New Guineea.
    You are correct in most of what you say Rumars.
    The hulls of my Pahi are based on the extended dugout principle, but I have a moulded composites dugout part instead of a hollowed tree trunk.
    To save on wastage of wood, this is something that is apparentlyalso being done by traditional proa builders in places like Sri Lanka.

    Since a Pahi is a double canoe, I have merely economised in the moulding process....as will be explained in my narrative to come in the SO Pahi thread.
    As far as the rig goes --you are correct about the boom height, and this is easy to achieve.
    Mainsheets would need to be doubled for shunting, but they are to designed to go to the luff end of the boom. The sail is a split junk sail sheeted to the boom for reefing and will have to have additional mainsheets. So for this reason I might be better off to stick with my Oceanic lateen rig......we will have to wait and see how physically capable I am in the future.
    Tacking might be an option with this unequal hull configuration, as shown by Hans Klaar on Ontong Java.
    However, my steering boards do have the ability to kick up, so the Viking style rudders are of no interest to me. thanks.
    Also,since this is only a 30 ft Pahi, shunting should be manageable.
    Last edited by Lugalong; 02-24-2018 at 02:29 PM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    I'll wait for the dedicated Pahi thread, but I'll say this much in advance, I really like your approach.

  10. #45
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    Very dirty CAD model of what the rig would look like on my 12ft canoe. Sail area only 3.5sq meters but sufficient to test the theory. Mounted on the frame, in line with the mast would be a leeboard.




  11. #46
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Looks good to me. What do you plan for the upper attachment point? Ring, parrel loop? I suppose the lower will be the windsurfs universal joint?

  13. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    Looks good to me. What do you plan for the upper attachment point? Ring, parrel loop? I suppose the lower will be the windsurfs universal joint?


    The project has a micro budget so it will be whatever I have lying about. I don’t have a UJ but do have some nice GNAV fittings so likely to be a pin joint.



    Apart from mast rotation I would like all the struts to be a connected and ridged as possible.


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  14. #49
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    Very dirty CAD model of what the rig would look like on my 12ft canoe. Sail area only 3.5sq meters but sufficient to test the theory. Mounted on the frame, in line with the mast would be a leeboard.

    --- Very interesting method! The basic geometry of this reminds me of Jim Brown's experimental shunting proa of a few years abck, though his mast was mounted at the forward end of that projectting "boom" of yours (and he had a stiff carbon structure to serves as a mast step); his sail was a high-aspect windsurfer sail. The early incarnation shunted so quickly (dry sailing experiments) that it was discombobulating -- snap! new shunt! -- and later he modified it it a bit to tame it. --Wade

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    --- Very interesting method! The basic geometry of this reminds me of Jim Brown's experimental shunting proa of a few years abck, though his mast was mounted at the forward end of that projectting "boom" of yours (and he had a stiff carbon structure to serves as a mast step); his sail was a high-aspect windsurfer sail. The early incarnation shunted so quickly (dry sailing experiments) that it was discombobulating -- snap! new shunt! -- and later he modified it it a bit to tame it. --Wade
    Big thanks, any idea where there may be more information on the Jim Brown proa. Thanks

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    Big thanks, any idea where there may be more information on the Jim Brown proa. Thanks
    --- Send me a private e-mail and I can send a photo of the first prototype. JB didn't document this project to my knowledge -- he talked about doing so but then started putting his time into his multi-hull-subject pod-casts and his multi-hull historical documentation project (with the Mariner's Museum). -- Wade

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    --- Send me a private e-mail and I can send a photo of the first prototype. JB didn't document this project to my knowledge -- he talked about doing so but then started putting his time into his multi-hull-subject pod-casts and his multi-hull historical documentation project (with the Mariner's Museum). -- Wade
    Should have PMed you but never sure if it works as they messages never appear in my sent box

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Thanks Wade, have mailed you

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