Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 53

Thread: Another new proa rig

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default Another new proa rig

    Yesterday Rael posted an interesting rig for a proa,
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...t-for-proa-rig

    This got me thinking about my spinlugger that I posted here about 4 years ago


    The idea being that the whole sail pivots fore and aft allowing control of CE position and so steering. Shutting would be simple, just pull the sail to the new bow.

    https://youtu.be/JyE0FsI_GAQ

    At the time people had concerns over luff tension.

    This rig is only intended to be used on a small beach style proa so reefing is not a requirement.

    Anyway after Rael’s post I started thinking again. In essence I have simply replaced the lug rig with a sprit boomed leg of mutton rig (windsurfer type). The cad sketches are crude merely to help me understand the design.







    https://tinkboats.wordpress.com
    http://proasail.blogspot.co.uk
    What I get up to
    https://youtu.be/X9NZEyvpb_Y Streaker dinghy
    https://youtu.be/oni-3rJzxqQ Sail Canoe
    https://youtu.be/eW078PPgJak Proa

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Europe
    Posts
    9,206

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Im completely lost on the shunter type proa, when the Pacific type seems so much easier. So whats the shunters advantage?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mass
    Posts
    144

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Shunter type basically allows you to always be sailing with the same hull shape. Pacific style, you are forced to use the alma as your main hull on one tack, which is not ideal from a design standpoint.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Wales
    Posts
    19,639

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    All proas are shunters.

    Pacific (traditional) proas have a heavy log as a counterbalance and rely on its weigh (kept to windward) to counter the drive in the sail - whereas Atlantic proas have a bouyant low mass ama which stays to leeward.

    The other thing is an outrigger canoe.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Im completely lost on the shunter type proa, when the Pacific type seems so much easier. So whats the shunters advantage?
    All Proas are shunners in that they don’t tack, the bow becomes the stern and the stern the bow with the outrigger stays on the same side relative to the wind. In the case of the Pacific proa the outrigger stays to windward and the Atlantic proa it stays to leeward.

    The advantages are many but mainly centred around getting much more boat for your materials than any other format or a much lighter boat for the same length. The draw back is the fact they have to shunt which can be time consuming and complex.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    The windsurfer style sollution may work for a beach proa. There will be a lot of force on the A frame, especially with that bend, so I would tend to disconnect the two struts. Put the heel of the windward support on the aka and have the heel of the actual mast on a separate boom that goes out to the bow. Then you have similar movement range as with the oceanic lateen. A car on the boom would allow you to move the heel of the mast for optimum CE placement. On a small proa the boom may even extend past the bow, like a bowsprit. Basicly a side folding bowsprit paired with a Dierking windward strut.
    On a bigger proa the whole system might become to unmanageble and I would tend to a curved track for the mast heel.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    348

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    The advantages are many but mainly centred around getting much more boat for your materials than any other format or a much lighter boat for the same length. The draw back is the fact they have to shunt which can be time consuming and complex.
    In reality there aren't any advantages that have convinced the marketplace. The arguments about cost are largely offset by the need to invent the wheel, or have a carbon spar, or the fact that length is not the advantage claimed for instance when paying fees.

    The real truth is more like motorcycles: Some people are attracted to them, and it doesn't mater that cars are in the majority of cases more practical, safer, and often less expensive.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    The windsurfer style sollution may work for a beach proa. There will be a lot of force on the A frame, especially with that bend, so I would tend to disconnect the two struts. Put the heel of the windward support on the aka and have the heel of the actual mast on a separate boom that goes out to the bow. Then you have similar movement range as with the oceanic lateen. A car on the boom would allow you to move the heel of the mast for optimum CE placement. On a small proa the boom may even extend past the bow, like a bowsprit. Basicly a side folding bowsprit paired with a Dierking windward strut.
    On a bigger proa the whole system might become to unmanageble and I would tend to a curved track for the mast heel.
    Full agree with everything you have said. My application is an area around 50sq ft as an initial test and possibly up to 100 sq ft which I think will cope with the stress, more modelling first

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    In reality there aren't any advantages that have convinced the marketplace. The arguments about cost are largely offset by the need to invent the wheel, or have a carbon spar, or the fact that length is not the advantage claimed for instance when paying fees.

    The real truth is more like motorcycles: Some people are attracted to them, and it doesn't mater that cars are in the majority of cases more practical, safer, and often less expensive.
    Thirty years ago I tried to develop a Proa with the simplicity of a Laser, I would have taken great offence in your post. Back then I think a small beach Proa could, ok outside chance, have caught on.
    Today with lighter boats and Foiling it is a speciality product where it still has advantages, overall speed sailing and minimal car top sailing. Commercially it is highly unlikely to be a successful format.
    Love the motor cycle analogy, I think that is probably about spot on.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Europe
    Posts
    9,206

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    I remember looking at the Berque twin Proa



    and for someone who sails mostly small monohulls. it seemed like a better solution to be "in" one hull. I certainly get the bit about low stress and better supported rig. As a car topper Raels concept has a lot going for it i guess, and as usual, its the storage afloat that puts many off multihulls. Wharram Mana 24 is about the minimum i would consider. and i really like the idea of being able to carry a decent size dinghy, but it is a warm weather boat.
    I did meet a Dutch guy who had 2 Wharram hulls a 28ft and a 42ft, i cant remember if he started building the 28ft and decided it was not going to be big enough, or he started building the 42ft, and realised it was going to cost too much....anyway, he had an interesting Proa, and if memory serves, he went on to develop another one. The shunting thing seems like a liabilty in confined areas, though it seems taboo, or just plain illegal to sail into most harbours and marinas these days. The rig details are interesting anyway. It will be a lot of string on Raels junk sail, and it will be interesting to see how that sliding rail develops.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    30 years ago WoodenBoat had this wonderful article on Russel Browns proa's. Unfortunedly but understandably he did not wish to become responsible for ignorant and reckless customers so he did not publish complete plans. Much later I sailed an old Tornado cat for a summer and thought how nice it would be to use parts for a Pacific Proa, but plans did not exist yet so I sold the Tornado.. . Shortly after that CLC came with the Proa Madness, and that boat seems promising. My question is: Has there been an independent rapport on this boat? I would love to see it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Im completely lost on the shunter type proa, when the Pacific type seems so much easier. So whats the shunters advantage?
    --- Pacific proa is the term for shunting proa, like the native craft that invented shunting and have been made known among Western-culture by Russ Brown and some other blue water sailors. Often it is mentioned that the word proa used among indigenous cultures simply means 'boat' to them, and sometimes even a monohull native boat -- we appropriating Westerners seem to be the ones who insist on saying shunting proa or tacking proa, always referring to an outrigger craft.

    Originally the shunting proa (native context) was an invention to build the fastest most weatherly boat with the least amount of the available materials and the strengths of those materials -- it was a materially efficient, low-stress rig, adapted to the iffy materials supply on small islands -- necessitating keeping the heavy, low-ish buoyancy log-ama always to windward. The rig could also fall aback and relieve stress that might break stuff at sea (though the native sailors often carry significant amounts of extra poles and line for repairs!). The heavy-ish log ama was the only nod to ballast, and it is much less ballast weight (=sloth) than needed on a monohull, which was good for speed when hunting fast schools of fish -- the proa cannot be separated from its social context here.

    Cargo? There were some large proas, but a double-hull voyaging canoe was probably better -- the proas were invented after the initial colonizing phase of the pacific, when lifeways and travel routes were well set up, and the travel routes between island were much shorter and more certain than uin the long-distance exploration phase of the Pacific colonization. Most of theproa we refer to are the 25-30 footers (Micronesian -- they got most of the good press) carrying 6 or so crew to get protein, visit kin, and bleed off some restless men from boredom, which was probably good for both the men and women. (the short book, East is a Big Bird, is must-do reading, written by a man both a sailor and an anthropologist, and never were the two skills better combined than for this book :-) If you read only one book about native proas and the lifeways they supported, then this is the one).

    With stronger materials and buoyant amas, you could argue we do not need the shunting variety any more -- they can tack and the buoyant ama can take the load to leeward, if so designed (cp. the Berque Brothers outrigger pictured above), and the cross beams and stays can also take the stress. Note too that there have been traditional tacking proas, usually with a crew person standing out on a crossbeam extension to take the load off the now- leeward ama. Perhaps they would appreciate a high-bouyancy light ama to let them relax in the canoe hull.

    With a well-thought rig, it has been said that a shunting proa is no harder to shunt than a boat with a big genoa, etc., is to tack. The proa also heaves-to very nicely and without drama, and the broadside to waves attitude, with the ama always to windward, is much more comfortable than it is for monohulls. (read Jim brown's chapter "park it, Dad" in his book "Among the Multihulls") also narrated on a podcast I believe (outrigmedia.org).

    Speaking only for myself, I enjoyed the education into a new way of sailing for a few seasons in my small proa, and it had its qualities (for example, it would knockdown in the msot friendly way, with the rig immediately floating and keeping boat at 90 degrees, easily righted -- my rig could not fall aback -- whereas a tacking outrigger could flip on its "trimaran tack" and that could be a real bummer), but my second boat became a tacking-outrigger/proa which seemed a bit more convenient especially when I wanted to thread shallows or to go through an anchorage, or steer to then squeeze between rocks in the sea just for the fun of it. It was also very nice to have an easily reefable sail, though you can do that on a shunter with a western rig instead of the crabclaw. One thing hard to do on a shunter is to have mizzen, if you want one. I like a small mizzen for reefing and resting and balancing steering, but then the proa shunter argues rightly that all you need do on a proa is let go the sheets, and the boat naturally parks itself drama-free. The only thing with this is that if your sail(s) are reefable, they would not set back within reach for easy reefing, as can be done on a boatwith a mizzen hardened for heaving to bow to wind. Russ Brown obviously made do very nicely -- not sure how he did reefing, but he did it. -- Wade
    Last edited by wtarzia; 02-20-2018 at 04:23 PM. Reason: details

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by FF View Post
    30 years ago WoodenBoat had this wonderful article on Russel Browns proa's. Unfortunedly but understandably he did not wish to become responsible for ignorant and reckless customers so he did not publish complete plans. Much later I sailed an old Tornado cat for a summer and thought how nice it would be to use parts for a Pacific Proa, but plans did not exist yet so I sold the Tornado.. . Shortly after that CLC came with the Proa Madness, and that boat seems promising. My question is: Has there been an independent rapport on this boat? I would love to see it.
    -- I believe Tim Anderson made a tacking outrigger made from a Tornado hull slightly spread in the center for more rocker; he had serious adventures on it. You can read about one of them in this boat on his old website, Tim Anderson's Home Away from Home, where he also documents other serious proa adventures (capital S serious). -- Wade

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    In reality there aren't any advantages that have convinced the marketplace. The arguments about cost are largely offset by the need to invent the wheel, or have a carbon spar, or the fact that length is not the advantage claimed for instance when paying fees.

    The real truth is more like motorcycles: Some people are attracted to them, and it doesn't mater that cars are in the majority of cases more practical, safer, and often less expensive.
    --- You may be right. Jim Brown attempted a prototype shunting proa design that he hoped to make marketable, ca 2014ff. (but this was based on a similar prototype he designed, built, and sailed himself 20 or so years earlier). It had an easily shunting windsurfer rig and a rotating outrigger beam to assist in steering, and a linkage so that as you pushed with your feet to rotate the cross-beam, the linkage also rotated the central leeboard for CLR shifting. It was quite the project, and the John Marples construction was just lovely and light, but the market did not seem to be there. The backer now has this proa in his museum-like collection. I do not think that Jim documented the project anywhere, but perhaps his outrigmedia.org podcasts will eventually do so. -- Wade

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default

    Drifting about on the Internet I found this, same idea but different execution

    The description reads well
    “My introduction to modern proas, after designing, building and sailing my offshore catamarans, was aboard Tony Williams’ proa. It worked extremely well, was fast, fun and controllable but a bit complex in its rig. However it scored with no rudders or centreboard and was steered very effectively by the sail which was set on a spar with a central boom at the end of a gantry like mast. I grew fond of that sail arrangement and endeavoured to incorporate it on one of my proas. It could tip over to windward, believe me. I still like that arrangement and if it could be tamed for use in all conditions it is worthwhile considering. I have looked at a combination of two smaller such sails but I see interference problems especially if caught aback.”

    Full website
    https://proafile.com/multihull-boats...-pizzey-part-2


    https://tinkboats.wordpress.com
    http://proasail.blogspot.co.uk
    What I get up to
    https://youtu.be/X9NZEyvpb_Y Streaker dinghy
    https://youtu.be/oni-3rJzxqQ Sail Canoe
    https://youtu.be/eW078PPgJak Proa

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Auckland ,N.Z.
    Posts
    24,848

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    I don't know much about them apart from what I've seen in our local museums ( some pretty good ones) but we did visit the pacific last year and saw a few in a couple of areas in Fiji.
    My observation or comment regarding the 'original 'boats is that they'd hardly need to 'short tack'( or equivalent) in most circumstances and I'm sure they would operate them across the trades to and from the fishing grounds. Obviously there would be exceptions but I would tend to think in terms of one board out in the morning and one back later in the day.
    What do you guys think? I have some photos of a few if anyone is interested.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I don't know much about them apart from what I've seen in our local museums ( some pretty good ones) but we did visit the pacific last year and saw a few in a couple of areas in Fiji.
    My observation or comment regarding the 'original 'boats is that they'd hardly need to 'short tack'( or equivalent) in most circumstances and I'm sure they would operate them across the trades to and from the fishing grounds. Obviously there would be exceptions but I would tend to think in terms of one board out in the morning and one back later in the day.
    What do you guys think? I have some photos of a few if anyone is interested.
    I spent many years designing Proas and tested three different concepts. However I have never made the link of how different the type of sailing the ‘original ‘ boats needed do compared my sailing requirements.

    I visited Fiji many years ago, I had planned to go in search of Proas but got distracted and never quite made it so would love to see your pictures.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    Drifting about on the Internet I found this, same idea but different execution ...
    --- Interesting. Looks like what one commercial designer calls the "Harry" proa -- a living hull/weight-windward hull.

    These rigs continue to remind me of the one Gary Dierking produced, an improvement over the Gibbons rig. -- Wade

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    As Mr. Tarzia so eloquently described, the proa is a product of it's environment. Stone age technology and limited resources produced a highly evolved but also specialized craft. Size was only limited by available materials and technology, and manpower was unlimited. In the modern western context space and manpower are the big limiting factors. Traditional proas don't need to short tack, there is enough sea space to use the crafts best sailing angles and the winds are usually predictable. Nevertheless some type of proas go pretty well upwind, some even have movable foils. You also had enough crew to paddle the thing trough a reef pass with the tide or even pole it over one. Proas are not dragged ashore, they are carried over by hand.
    The 25-30 ft. proa is esentially what we would call a daysailer. The longer journeys were in boats 50 ft. and longer. They also had the time to wait for good conditions.

    Right now there is a 17 ft. commercially offered proa, the Pjoa Laguna. http://www.pjoa.eu

    And lastly a rare film showing big traditional shunters:


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Auckland ,N.Z.
    Posts
    24,848

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    I spent many years designing Proas and tested three different concepts. However I have never made the link of how different the type of sailing the ‘original ‘ boats needed do compared my sailing requirements.

    I visited Fiji many years ago, I had planned to go in search of Proas but got distracted and never quite made it so would love to see your pictures.
    Actually this is hijacking someones elses thread ,( sorry) I'll start a new one.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by John B; 02-20-2018 at 06:41 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    As Mr. Tarzia so eloquently described, the proa is a product of it's environment. Stone age technology and limited resources produced a highly evolved but also specialized craft. Size was only limited by available materials and technology, and manpower was unlimited. In the modern western context space and manpower are the big limiting factors. Traditional proas don't need to short tack, there is enough sea space to use the crafts best sailing angles and the winds are usually predictable. Nevertheless some type of proas go pretty well upwind, some even have movable foils. You also had enough crew to paddle the thing trough a reef pass with the tide or even pole it over one. Proas are not dragged ashore, they are carried over by hand.
    The 25-30 ft. proa is esentially what we would call a daysailer. The longer journeys were in boats 50 ft. and longer. They also had the time to wait for good conditions.

    Right now there is a 17 ft. commercially offered proa, the Pjoa Laguna. http://www.pjoa.eu

    And lastly a rare film showing big traditional shunters:


    Fantastic video, thanks for sharing.
    I have heard the limited resources theory many times but with so many canoe perhaps it was about just using what was needed. To build so many craft surely there was an abundance of materials. The craft and the people started there traveling from the Asian continent populating the Pacific over many generations. When the first canoes where made there must have been a great deal of material available.
    Probably over simplifying but I feel saying the canoes evolved the way they did was just because of material shortage undermines the elegance of the design




    https://tinkboats.wordpress.com
    http://proasail.blogspot.co.uk
    What I get up to
    https://youtu.be/X9NZEyvpb_Y Streaker dinghy
    https://youtu.be/oni-3rJzxqQ Sail Canoe
    https://youtu.be/eW078PPgJak Proa

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    The migrations were probably done on catamaran tackers. The shunter was the last evolution and was slowly spreading over the pacific when the europeans arrived.
    The "limited resources" theory was developed from the point of view of a technologically more advanced society. It's not about not having enough big trees (altough this became a concern on the smaller non-wooded islands), it is mainly about the technology of processing them. You can not saw boards with stone age technology. You can only split trees and carve to shape. No metal fasteners also means sewn boat technology wich ads it's own limitations to the design. Another problem is textile manufacturing (sails, ropes). Add the environmental factors (shallow depths, local weather patterns, etc.) and the cultural factors (tribal society, transmission of knowledge) and you have more or less the mix from where the proa emerged. It was a brilliant ideea in that context. Just halving the time to build a boat must have been worth all the complications of shunting. And with a large crew that was not really a concern for the chiefs.
    The ideea of the light nimble craft of extraordinary speed is a cultural mythos. The bigger boats are certainly no lightweights by modern standards. But for James Cook or admiral Paris they were. The speed potential is there but necesitates a big active crew to realize it.
    The westernized proa has to work around our own limitations. Materials and technology are not a problem anymore. Crew size, vessel size, and intended use are. So we developed our own multihulls. Beach cats for fun, condomarans for confort, trimarans for offshore racing, etc. Hawaian outrigger canoes are popular now for sport, and maybe proas also will be some day.

    Back to the rig, the photo that you posted comes near to what I think of.

    One rig I did not see tried yet is the pivoting mast with a standing lug.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    The migrations were probably done on catamaran tackers. The shunter was the last evolution and was slowly spreading over the pacific when the europeans arrived.
    The "limited resources" theory was developed from the point of view of a technologically more advanced society. It's not about not having enough big trees (altough this became a concern on the smaller non-wooded islands), it is mainly about the technology of processing them. You can not saw boards with stone age technology. You can only split trees and carve to shape. No metal fasteners also means sewn boat technology wich ads it's own limitations to the design. Another problem is textile manufacturing (sails, ropes). Add the environmental factors (shallow depths, local weather patterns, etc.) and the cultural factors (tribal society, transmission of knowledge) and you have more or less the mix from where the proa emerged. It was a brilliant ideea in that context. Just halving the time to build a boat must have been worth all the complications of shunting. And with a large crew that was not really a concern for the chiefs.
    The ideea of the light nimble craft of extraordinary speed is a cultural mythos. The bigger boats are certainly no lightweights by modern standards. But for James Cook or admiral Paris they were. The speed potential is there but necesitates a big active crew to realize it.
    The westernized proa has to work around our own limitations. Materials and technology are not a problem anymore. Crew size, vessel size, and intended use are. So we developed our own multihulls. Beach cats for fun, condomarans for confort, trimarans for offshore racing, etc. Hawaian outrigger canoes are popular now for sport, and maybe proas also will be some day.

    Back to the rig, the photo that you posted comes near to what I think of.

    One rig I did not see tried yet is the pivoting mast with a standing lug.
    yes it very much a case on context and definitions, it is fantastic subject. It always amazes me such a divergent design was developed with the technology available to them.

    Will have a think about pivoting mast standing lug

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    The speeds that Gladwin reports for his proa journeys with his hosts are sobering -- often something like 4 or 5 knot averages over 100 miles or so. --Wade

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    530

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    yes it very much a case on context and definitions, it is fantastic subject. It always amazes me such a divergent design was developed with the technology available to them.

    Will have a think about pivoting mast standing lug



    Yes, migration and the canoes that enabled it are of endless fascination to some of us
    Here is my latest effort, but there is only time for a pic because i have a day left to move the hulls out of the worksheetModel Pahi Lateen rig 2.jpg
    Model Pahi Lateen rig 2.jpg

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    530

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    530

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    530

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Too much hurry to get on with loading the waka, and posting pics carelessly

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Wow, big canoe, congratulations. Can we have more details? Please?

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    670

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post

    The real truth is more like motorcycles: Some people are attracted to them, and it doesn't mater that cars are in the majority of cases more practical, safer, and often less expensive.
    Who is buying or building a boat because it's a practical, safe, inexpensive form of transportation?

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    1,304

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Now that is some craft, we definitely need more information when you get a channce

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Reminds me of a Ndrua, though I cannot tell if there is some length/volume differences between the two hulls.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    530

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    Quote Originally Posted by wtarzia View Post
    Reminds me of a Ndrua, though I cannot tell if there is some length/volume differences between the two hulls.
    About 40 years ago I read what Eric de Bisschop (he who built and sailed the first modern multihull, Kaimiloa and also sailed the raft Tahiti Nui). He was a Polynesian voyaging proponent and thought that early double canoes had unequal size hulls and that they shunted in order to keep the bigger one to leeward.
    Pahi is what such craft were called, and this is the design philosophy behind this SO Pahi of mine.

    James Cook wrote about Tahitian paddling war canoes of his day, which were also known as 'Pahee'......... there's more on this that I will follow up on later
    Last edited by Lugalong; 02-22-2018 at 01:17 PM.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: Another new proa rig

    To return on topic, here two videos about Ana-Varu, a german proa. It has an interesting rig, basicly what we were talking about, only with a normal mast with a sailtrack, so the sails can be changed (not sure about reefing) not a windsurf mast for the yard. One video in english about their journey from Taiwan to Guam ending in Palau (the winds forced them there and they had some technical problem), the other in german showing the shunt mechanics (the heel of the mast is on a car in a track on the lee side) probably unnecessary for a small proa.

    Last edited by Rumars; 02-24-2018 at 12:46 AM.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: Another new proa rig



    Info's from the video: the proa is 11m long, weighs 950kg, 45cm draft, the green sail is the mid sized one at 23 sqm, they made 9.5kn boatspeed at 5 Beaufort with it. The ama can take 500kg of water ballast.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •