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Thread: United 777 engine failure

  1. #1
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    Default United 777 engine failure

    Looks like most of the nose cowl and both fan cowls departed. Sounds like it lost a fan blade as well.
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...nolulu-flight/
    Tom

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    Default




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    WOW! There was another engine related air return by a US carrier to Lagos Nigeria, are you packing your bags.
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Lots of shaking going on.
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    I could not imagine the horror of losing an engine at both speed and altitude.

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    WOW! There was another engine related air return by a US carrier to Lagos Nigeria, are you packing your bags.
    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atla...eria/699340345
    I hadn't even got the word on that one yet, I may be getting a call. Takes a while to get logistics set up for a trip there if it's an engine change.
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Is it me, or have there been a relatively large number of this type of failure recently?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    There is a story up on PPRUNE - ( Professional pilot rumor network) about this flight and some related details -- it would certainly be unnerving to see it outside your window.




    Rick

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    I could not imagine the horror of losing an engine at both speed and altitude.
    Thats actually about the best time for it to happen.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atla...eria/699340345
    I hadn't even got the word on that one yet, I may be getting a call. Takes a while to get logistics set up for a trip there if it's an engine change.
    Again, on PPRUNE - Delta flight 55 had to return to Lagos - some passenger injured exiting via slides



    Rick

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Again, on PPRUNE - Delta flight 55 had to return to Lagos - some passenger injured exiting via slides



    Rick
    Engine fire indication, a couple of my night shift co-workers were despatched to work on it last night. Changing fire bottles and some inspections but right now it's looking like an indication issue and not an actual fire.
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Is it me, or have there been a relatively large number of this type of failure recently?
    There have been several that look similar but the actual failure modes have been different. This one is surprising in that it didn't contain a single blade failure. I would have expected it to shed the blade but the cowling stay intact.
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    It seems the front part rotated. From the Internet.

    48D20C81-3C20-4E4C-9958-161105C32030.jpg
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    It seems the front part rotated. From the Internet.

    48D20C81-3C20-4E4C-9958-161105C32030.jpg
    Not possible for that section to have rotated. That where that part is normally mounted. You can see the wire bundles still clamped as normal and the oil tank and ground handling cradle mounts are right where they should be, 9 o'clock position. (3 o'clock if you want to look at it facing aft)
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    I could not imagine the horror of losing an engine at both speed and altitude.
    Far better than losing one low and slow!
    Ratus ratus bilgeous snipeous!

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    I always wonder, "Where does all that junk LAND?"
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    Not possible for that section to have rotated. That where that part is normally mounted. You can see the wire bundles still clamped as normal and the oil tank and ground handling cradle mounts are right where they should be, 9 o'clock position. (3 o'clock if you want to look at it facing aft)
    I guess that’s what you get for getting your info off the internet
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    Far better than losing one low and slow!
    Friends of ours travelled frequently to Florida with their young kids......on one such fully-laden wide-body, twin-engined aircraft (recent novelty!) to Rio ..... after taking off in Miami and still climbing to attain crusing altitude, the whole cabin area was suddenly engulfed in smoke....the aircraft then rolled rapidly to one side, to the other, several times until it stabilised....and the captain brought it down to nearly sea-level...it was night time......panic on board, passengers were moaning, thought they were going to die...but they finally managed to land on just one engine.

    As they awaited in the terminal to board another aircraft , my friend, an engineer turned financial magician, conversed with a Boeing engineer who explained to him that the right/left roll they had experienced was the autopilot in action...similar to they way supersonic fighter-jets are rapidly auto-compensated, due to the time it takes for the pilot to perceive that a control surface has been hit and taking the requisite action, which otherwise would see the aircraft going out of control (crashing).

    My friend commented..."I just could not see that single engine holding out for long, specially if we were at cruising altitude and halfway to our destination"

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    I always wonder, "Where does all that junk LAND?"
    We picked a cowling up from a cow pasture once, and had one land in the ford plant parking lot in the 90's. An overwing slide door from a 767 landed across the street fom my driveway about 10 years ago. I never saw that one. My neighbor called the FAA and had them come get it. Wish I had seen it since I ended up fixing that plane the next day. I could have used a bunch of the parts off it.
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    In the early days of the Cobra, tail rotor 90* gearboxes had a habit of departing during high g maneuvers. It was a real confidence builder to walk the flight line and see them painted day-glow orange... so the accident board could find them more easily.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    There have been several that look similar but the actual failure modes have been different. This one is surprising in that it didn't contain a single blade failure. I would have expected it to shed the blade but the cowling stay intact.
    Looks like it lost a whole blade and part of a second.

    a9543755f72e7adcadab0117918771e4.jpg

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    I guess that’s what you get for getting your info off the internet
    from a pilot
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    Looks like it lost a whole blade and part of a second.
    Yep. It should have contained that though. I've seen 767's that have contained multiple blade failures.
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    Yep. It should have contained that though. I've seen 767's that have contained multiple blade failures.
    What do you mean by 'contained' ?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    At least, better than the British Airways one where the ground staff simply forgot to latch the cowling...

    https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/airc...oe-24-may-2013
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    What do you mean by 'contained' ?
    Blade doesn't come out of the cowling.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  27. #27
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Blade doesn't come out of the cowling.
    Thanks.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Better in the sense that it did not occur due to the shortcomings of ground staff.

    But a lot scarier due to the engine actually blowing up (sort of) in flight.

    See my post 18 above.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Thanks.
    It's an important safety consideration. Those blades are made of some funky high-temperature high-strength alloys. Should a fan disk come apart in flight, you want the debris to be contained by the engine and cowling assembly so that it isn't going through the wing and affecting hydraulics and control surfaces. You also don't want the debris penetrating the fuselage and depressurizing the aircraft and injuring passengers or affecting control cables/hydraulics in the fuselage, either.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  30. #30
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    It's an important safety consideration. Those blades are made of some funky high-temperature high-strength alloys. Should a fan disk come apart in flight, you want the debris to be contained by the engine and cowling assembly so that it isn't going through the wing and affecting hydraulics and control surfaces. You also don't want the debris penetrating the fuselage and depressurizing the aircraft and injuring passengers or affecting control cables/hydraulics in the fuselage, either.
    But for ground staff not securing/latching down the engine cowlings before take off........see ACBs post above.....

  31. #31
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by carioca1232001 View Post
    But for ground staff not securing/latching down the engine cowlings before take off........see ACBs post above.....
    That would be a systemic failure.

    Both the engine housing and the cowlings are designed to prevent uncontained failures. If you don't follow the manufacturer's instructions, all bets are off.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  32. #32
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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Blade doesn't come out of the cowling.
    Exactly. That plus the cowling remains intact, or at least remains attached to the aircraft. Obviously it would suffer damage from containing the blade but they have provisions for blade containment built into the nose cowl. Some of the cowls and fan cases have kevlar fabric essentially layered and wrapped around the area where the blades are specifically to contain blade failures. You can see some of that hanging down in the frontal picture I posted. (at least that's what appears to e visible, it's hard to tell without physically looking at it)
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by carioca1232001 View Post
    But for ground staff not securing/latching down the engine cowlings before take off........see ACBs post above.....
    Not securing the engine cowls wouldn't cause the nose cowl to come off as happened here.
    Tom

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    Not securing the engine cowls wouldn't cause the nose cowl to come off as happened here.
    Although the 'simpler' BA incident managed to set one of the engines engine on fire, which then required to be shut off.

    Frankly, , the current incident with the United 777 as well as the one in post #18 above, were somewhat blessed with luck.........both aircraft were close to their point of landing/departure.

    Isnīt it an extremely demanding task for the pilot/captain and not least, on the actual engineering systems (flight and attitude control, propulsion, a/c, navigation etc) of a twin-engined jet aircraft, to be able to survive such an ordeal, specially if aflicted somewhere in the middle of the journey ?

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    Default Re: United 777 engine failure

    Quote Originally Posted by carioca1232001 View Post
    Although the 'simpler' BA incident managed to set one of the engines engine on fire, which then required to be shut off.

    Frankly, , the current incident with the United 777 as well as the one in post #18 above, were somewhat blessed with luck.........both aircraft were close to their point of landing/departure.

    Isnīt it an extremely demanding task for the pilot/captain and not least, on the actual engineering systems (flight and attitude control, propulsion, a/c, navigation etc) of a twin-engined jet aircraft, to be able to survive such an ordeal, specially if aflicted somewhere in the middle of the journey ?
    The rules for ETOPS flight are based on some pretty long history and reliability factors. I don't think it is really doing anything particularly tough on the equipment (propulsion, attitude, nav etc...) it's designed to handle that. The reliability requirements for etops engines are far stricter than non-etops to build in a margin of safety in case of such an event. I trust the engineering behind that if the maintenance is being done the way it needs to be. 180 min cruise flight shouldn't be an issue on 1 engine.

    There are also rules in place regarding what kind of maintenance can be done on more than one etops significant system at a time to ensure you don't have an issue where one mechanic worked on and made the same mistake on two engines on the same plane or that two significant systems even had maintenance done at the same time. If that was the case a verification flight has to be made to be made prior to the aircraft returning to etops service.

    As far as the flight crews I don't think it is that much of an ordeal to manage. That's exactly what they train for. I'm not the one in that situation though.
    Last edited by Tom Wilkinson; 02-14-2018 at 01:02 PM.
    Tom

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