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Thread: The work-to-reward ratio

  1. #36
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    Oct 2009
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    Juneau, Alaska
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    The occasional random move is all part of the fun. But you’re in the wrong anchorage if that’s a problem, where I live anyway.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  2. #37
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    Jul 2000
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    N.E. Connecticut.
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    I suppose my “pain point” must be pretty high.

    Top) about 20 years ago
    bottom) in high school

    here are some pictures for you
    Last edited by nedL; 02-28-2018 at 08:03 PM.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    And
    about 17 years ago
    tossed in the water last July

  4. #39
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    Dec 2004
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    vancouver, british columbia
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan H View Post
    I'm curious what all your thoughts are in terms of the patience/effort/time/reward equation.
    This is my first and only build. I started with no tools and no skills.
    Five years of nights and weekends, winter, spring, summer and fall.
    Twelve years of sailing so far.
    Totally worth it.
    Time is a mere concept, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing...

    P1020510.jpg

  5. #40
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    Jul 2017
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    Toodyay, Western Australia
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    378

    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    Nice. Dig the spar rack, what a cool idea. Mine just lean up in a corner of the shed.

  6. #41
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    vancouver, british columbia
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    Haha - thanks, but it's really just a drying rack - I tuck them safely in the boat usually.

  7. #42
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    Jul 2002
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    Western Washington
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    I'd say everyone knows when a project has taken too long. In general, a project has taken too long when the issue of time spent versus degree of completion first enters one's mind. That's when the rationalizations start. Sure, it varies from individual to individual, but "get the damn thing done" has to be a vital part of a successful strategy. At least that's how it is for me.

    I found my feelings on the issue in general were best expressed by a surgeon who performed a very successful meniscus procedure on one of my knees. I was alert, and it seemed to be over very quickly. When he said: "We're done!" I asked: "How long was that?" He replied: "Just under 12 minutes. If I had taken any longer I would have known that I had done something wrong."

    "If I had taken any longer I would have known that I had done something wrong."

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Honeoye Falls, NY
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    136

    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    I've been building a B & B Core Sound 20 Mark III since February 2015 from a kit. In the process I lost my business partner of 27 years, my father in Law, and my Dad. I saw my daughter off to college, ran my high school boys around to various sports practices and insisted on still sailing my Sea Pearl 21. I also am married and enjoy time with my wife.

    There was a time when I got a bit frustrated with progress, and my wife reminded me that it was supposed to be fun. I relaxed and when she launches she launches.

    Here's a pic:
    2018-02-11 20.43.07.jpg
    Take Care,
    Steve W

    Honeoye Falls, New York
    Building a B & B Core Sound 20 Mark III "Jazz Hands"
    Spindrift 11N Suzy J Build Pictures
    A little video of the Suzy J and my youngest son

  9. #44
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    Oct 2009
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    That's a fair point Steve. I find that I get most frustrated when I've put an artificial timeline line on a project and I'm not making progress. It should be fun.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  10. #45
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    Jul 2017
    Location
    Toodyay, Western Australia
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    378

    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    My build seemed to be going slower than I would like, occasionally making me wonder what the hell I was thinking when I started this boat some years back. Well the last couple of days I've been roughing out some of the big hairy audacious bits of the cabinetry with a view to getting the roof on the cabin right after the main parts of the interior are done. Suddenly I am seeing big changes taking place and I've got my momentum back. So, comes a realisation that the work to reward ratio, for me at least, is not a static thing.

  11. #46
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    Jan 2008
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    Lake Champlain, Vermont
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    My build seemed to be going slower than I would like, occasionally making me wonder what the hell I was thinking when I started this boat some years back. Well the last couple of days I've been roughing out some of the big hairy audacious bits of the cabinetry with a view to getting the roof on the cabin right after the main parts of the interior are done. Suddenly I am seeing big changes taking place and I've got my momentum back. So, comes a realisation that the work to reward ratio, for me at least, is not a static thing.
    I resemble that remark.... good for you, glad you are back at it...

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    365

    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    I think the main factor is how your life is outside the project.

    Theese days the well off among my generation (I am 36) run of their feet chasing the perfect this and the perfect that. They believe they must go to Thailand once a year and must have their own cabin at a ski resort and they must have the perfect home where everything looks like in the catalogue. They must have a perfect wife (or husband) and periodically spend lots of time looking for a replacement as the old one wore out and became less than perfect. They must update their facebook accounts four times a day to really drive home the picture of their perfect life. On top of all that they need a pefect carreer to pay the bills for that pefect lifestyle and such a carreer doesn't come from working 8 hours a day five days a week so there is really no sparetime.
    No time for boatbuilding.

    Many of the not so fortunate are encouraged to lie in a couch drinking beer watching TV all day. Unable to ever get a job because there are no jobs on offer to anyone who doesn't have a perfect life and an inherited fortune. Told by everyone that they are worthless and only have themselves to blame they loose all traces of self confidence and drive and quit thinking. Their lives feel wasted so they drown their sorrows in cheap vodka and not so cheap drugs and take out their frustration by stabbing each others when drunk.
    No boatbuilding there either.

    The rest of us not so fortunate are too busy patching together a reasonable standard of living from what's on hand and trying to earn a living on diminishing wages from jobs that are both few and far between. Struggling to build a home and rear kids on the cheap. Struggling to keep a car going. The older you get the harder it gets and when you fall ill of fall from a scaffolding you are eternally out of a job. Discarded.
    No boatbuilding there either.

    This happens to a greater or lesser degree all over the western world. No wonder boating and hobby boatbuilding is dying away.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  13. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    The Netherlands
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    451

    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    Heimlaga, that was depressing. But we, boatbuilders, are with few and a bit luckier according to F Herreshof. He reckons the luckiest are building a H 28, and that is a big project for an amateur. Chapelle thinks one should choose a design that can be finished in 2 years, and I think he is right: After some time you loose momentum and worse, you are thinking about improvements and they allways increase building time. I started a dinghy in december with the hope I could build the hull during Xmas, cut out parts in the garage and assemble the boat in our living. I forgot the kids were coming over and then we needed a tree in the room. Now I wait till summer, and hope to sail the boat at the end of it.

  14. #49
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    Jul 2017
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    Toodyay, Western Australia
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    Ohhhhhhh so that's where I went wrong... I was thinking about improvements right from the outset... still... the end is in sight... YIPPEEEEE!!!!

  15. #50
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    vancouver, british columbia
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    One ruse is to think of the whole thing as an art project. I mean, did Rembrandt rush through a painting? Did Michelangelo hurry up when he was carving the statue of David? Did the Buddha think about the time he was wasting just sitting there? I think not. So why can't we spend a measly few years being totally absorbed in a small project that will produce a functional piece of art that will give us endless freedom and pleasure more than any object we may ever own. Take your time - life can wait.

    FUNCTIONAL ART.jpg

    (at least that's how I explained it to my wife)

  16. #51
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    Feb 2004
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    Texas
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by darroch View Post
    One ruse is to think of the whole thing as an art project. I mean, did Rembrandt rush through a painting? Did Michelangelo hurry up when he was carving the statue of David? Did the Buddha think about the time he was wasting just sitting there? I think not. So why can't we spend a measly few years being totally absorbed in a small project that will produce a functional piece of art that will give us endless freedom and pleasure more than any object we may ever own. Take your time - life can wait.

    FUNCTIONAL ART.jpg

    (at least that's how I explained it to my wife)
    David is 17 ft high, really big sculpture, it was done in under 3 years, probably not Michaelangelo's only project at the time. Rembrandt was very prolific, a quick count reveals 8 well known paintings from 1628 alone. Medieval artists were pretty quick workers. Not rushed, but their work got done in a timely and planned fashion.

    We amateur boat builders probably spend too much time like Budda, sitting under a tree pondering our next step.

    Sent from my Vivo 8L using Tapatalk

  17. #52
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    I offer only possible rationalizations - please don't distort them with facts.

    Some have also told me the small prayers beseeching Odin and Thor and the many little blood sacrifices I made along the way were without merit. Many strange thoughts pass through the mind of a newbie in a boatshed - I tried to latch on to the helpful ones and discard the unhelpful, real or imagined.

  18. #53
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    Toodyay, Western Australia
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    David is 17 ft high, really big sculpture, it was done in under 3 years, probably not Michaelangelo's only project at the time. Rembrandt was very prolific, a quick count reveals 8 well known paintings from 1628 alone. Medieval artists were pretty quick workers. Not rushed, but their work got done in a timely and planned fashion.

    We amateur boat builders probably spend too much time like Budda, sitting under a tree pondering our next step.

    Sent from my Vivo 8L using Tapatalk
    In my case more like Buddha with ADD.

  19. #54
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    downward bound
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Medieval artists were pretty quick workers. Not rushed, but their work got done in a timely and planned fashion.
    Medieval and Renaissance artists were more like production craftsmen working in a factory. They made art to a design their patron wanted on time and on budget. This is best exlempfied by the now out of fashion Peter Paul Reubens - he had a studio of workers turning out paintings. When it didn't appear, people got mad. For a direct example - look at Rembrants letters to Huygens - playing for time http://www.learn.columbia.edu/monogr...reading_30.pdf. For a tangential example look at Jakob Stainer (the best luthier of the 17th century to the people who mattered in the 17th century) who got nasty letters from his clients wondering where the instrument was. Stradivarius got the same. Art was a business.

    It was the bohemian revolution of the 19th century that changed this.

  20. #55
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    Mar 2018
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    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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    Default Re: The work-to-reward ratio

    You can't put a price on enjoyment. If you enjoy building then you will build, if you enjoy sailing you will do that, if you like both you'll figure it out. The real trick if you are the builder type and get the idea to try to sell what you build is to never take a comission. Stick to building what you want and putting that up for sale, and if someone likes that, they can buy it. This way you can keep the build and the enjoyment on your terms and to your standards. As soon as you start having to anticipate or deal with someone else's opinion it rapidly becomes like work, especially if you and your "client" do not see eye to eye on some things.

    The ultimate reality relative to the time and effort of these boats of ours, is they are a labour of love, because there is no realistic return on investment for them in this modern age of fibreglass hulls that can be mass produced and easily outlast even maintained wooden boats. Bottom line for the balance of it all is you do things that have poor ROE because you love and enjoy them, because we didn't we would be spending our time and money elsewhere.



    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    How do you stop the chess pieces from making their own moves if the anchorage gets choppy?
    Magnets in the bottoms of the pieces and a steel sheet set under the veneer top of the table?

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