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Thread: More Hartley

  1. #561
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Thanks Geoff, can't wait for the dust to settle! Movers come Tuesday and we've got a lot to do between then and now.

    But I've got a good start!

    Getting out-.jpg

    Eric

    PS Sorry for the attached thumbnail...still working on that portrait vs. landscape thing
    Attached Images Attached Images
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  2. #562
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Good progress there with the cabin.
    Are you making a hatch over the opening you have made?
    They are usually parallel sided so that a hatch can slide forward and back.
    In saying that, all the Hartley 16's I've seen (not that many and all set up for racing) don't bother with one and it is open.
    Good luck with the move!

  3. #563
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Thanks Slacko! I appreciate it!

    With regard to the hatch, my thought is to fashion a fabric cover that will snap into place taking the place of the sliding hatch. Now I really like the looks of the sliding hatch, but I wanted to be able to get to the base of the mast and I'm not of a shape that works well with parallel sides.

    Eric
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  4. #564
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Best of luck on your retirement Eric!
    Sorry it was badly timed, but life happens i suppose.

    I owned a Cherry 16 many moons ago, it had a steel centerboard that lifted, via an eye in the CB, at the aft end of the CB case. Connected to the CB about half way along the trailing edge.

    Good luck for the move.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  5. #565
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    That all makes sense, just checking.

  6. #566
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings all,

    Here it is three months later and it feels like a decade. I hope that you and your's are doing well and staying safe. We survived the move and have completed enough move in tasks, that I started back on the boat today. Here it is, outside it's home for the time being.

    IMG_5036.jpg

    The work today was to get back on the fairing/sanding cycle, so I was into fairing.

    IMG_5039.jpg

    Need to wait for a couple of accessories to arrive before I start sanding though. I committed to using a dust collection system at this house and have 90% of it put together.

    IMG_5021.jpg

    All in all, the move was fairly painless. I can't find the camera that I used for boat shots or the brand new electric tester but if that's all, then...I guess it's not all that bad. But am I glad that we're not planning on any more moves! 10 in the past 12 years is enough! This time I thought that I had gotten way ahead of the curve and was ready for anything. No way, I was still packing when the mover was ready to head out.

    With regard to house restoration, we've talked to contractors but have not pulled the trigger yet. I keep on asking myself, how much of this could I do myself? Demolition? Labor? So we're still working on the best way to accomplish our goal. With regard to me? I've done all my honey do's and have even attacked an overgrown landscape.

    IMG_4944.jpg

    And this is just one side of a 12' wide open space along both sides! They definitely put the hurt on me, but now I've got to figure out what to do with that space.

    Modern problems.

    More later,

    Eric
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  7. #567
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    26

    Default Re: More Hartley

    Welcome back, we are getting back into it today too.

    I wish I had looked at your boat more closely earlier.

    We have decided to copy you in extending the seats out wider but I neglected to factor in the outboard well needing to stay wider.

    I am now worried that unless I move it the prop is going to hit the rudder

    More edits to be made

  8. #568
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings all,

    Thanks hereselmo1! Definitely glad to get working on it again. I'm ready to finish this puppy and use it! With regards to outboard well location I looked at the plans and pictures of locations on other 14's, but basically used that carlin as a boundry. The well size is 13"x13" I think. Good luck on getting yours in order and let me know what you came up with!

    I've been sanding for the past couple of days. When it was evident that we were leaving NC I knew/thought that I needed to hustle to get the boat ready to travel. My goal was to get several coats of epoxy on the topside and that's where I ended up. But in my haste to get it done and the limited time available, quality control went out of the window. I rationalized so many shortcuts in the application of the epoxy by telling myself that I could just sand it later.

    Now is later. Waaaay too much energy required, and truth be known, I've got more to do. I put a lot of sanding effort in on the hull, but I also paid attention to the application. Slopping it on the way I did just caused me a whole bunch of extra work later. I should know better by now. But in the heat of the move and me having unrealistic expectations or having placed undue value on getting construction to a certain point I made the wrong decision. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO DO A JOB. THE RIGHT WAY. Just to take some of the sting off, I didn't know where the boat was going to sit and I was concerned about rain messing things up. As it was there was enough room in the garage for the boat. But non of this is reason to do what I did. I should have reduced the number of coats to one. Another lesson by Eric

    But I need the exercise anyway, so end of rant.

    Getting ready to hit the topsides with 120 grit on a finishing sander.

    IMG_5045.jpg

    And here it is after the first round of fairing/sanding.

    IMG_5048.jpg

    Have I told you how much I like sanding? About the only positive feelings that I get from sanding is when the valleys and craters disappear. Slowly, but surely they are gone. The worst feelings in sanding is when that valley or crater doesn't disappear and you need to invoke plan B. More work. So after the second round of fairing (mini areas now)/sanding I'm still finding things to be done better. Once I get that surface prepped I can go on to topside primer and finishing. But I'm nowhere near ready for primer yet.

    But I did get my dust system up and running. Quite a lot of suction from that 5hp vac.

    IMG_5066.jpg

    Still had to mop up after, but not much. I've got a feeling that I'll be using it quite a bit. May even try to mount it in the garage after the boat gets finished.

    IMG_5057a.jpg

    More later,

    Eric

    PS. Sorry about the inverted photo hanging around. Like trying to delete photos here is like Hotel California, "You can check out any time you like. But you can never leave"
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  9. #569
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Charleston, SC
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    250

    Default Re: More Hartley

    Big fan of these Hartleys. Yours is looking good. Any thought about putting front window in cabin top? Many of these boats have one and I would think it would give cabin more light and allow one to see forward when at anchor etc. Just a 0.02 suggestion because of the stage you are at it would be easy to do

  10. #570
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Thanks gray duck,

    Well to sort of answer your question, yes and no. Did you mean the windshield area between the deck and the cabin top or the top of the cabin?

    DSCF8540.jpg

    No matter. You can see that I've kind of blown away a good portion of the top so I can physically get further forward when sailing. With regard to adding a windshield idea, I'm a bit concerned about that bend in the middle as well as the attachment method in the plans. I don't have much experience with bending/drilling that stuff. But I agree with your light/visibility point. And I think that it would look cool too! I'm going to leave that question till after I can splash it and figure it out.

    I'm also considering a different window attachment method as well. May or may not be used in the final layout.

    Thanks again,

    Eric
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  11. #571
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Looking good Eric.
    sanding sanding, keep on sanding. It's worth doing, and it'll be over soon!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  12. #572
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    This is getting so good!! Contgratulations sir for the amazing build!

  13. #573
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings all,

    Thanks Trev, that's about all that I've been doing is sanding. Kind of induces a brain fog. More on that later.

    I certainly appreciate your positive comments andrelvas! Sometimes I do be believe that it's amazing! Obrigado!

    So the brain fog incident that I mentioned above was that I ordered the topside primer, paint and non-skid paint thinking that was the next task...and that it usually takes awhile to get them. But they came quickly and I started to plot that task. Up until I was looking at some photo's of Geary's boat and saw the coamings. Ohhhhh, I forgot about them didn't I.

    So I packed the paint stuff away and went to lay out the coaming cleats. Plans didn't show much and what they did, I didn't really like. I liked Geary's version. Boxed with access holes and a walkway between the coaming and the rail. This is what I came up with.

    IMG_5130.jpg

    Used the batten to get it looking good to me and drew a line on the port side. Then set up a coordinate system along the front edge of the seats and measured from the rail to the line. Copied that to the other side and then got ready to screw, nail and glue two sides.

    Then realized that the doug fir that I had wasn't going to bend to the shape that the batten did. Spent a bit of time contemplating the problem and then just decided to do like you would on the inside of an acoustic guitar. Cut the outside edge. Did that and measured the locations for nails and screws, drilled shank holes, pilot holes and prayed alot. Then decided to use this method to attach the cleats.

    IMG_5145.jpg

    Apply the thickened epoxy to to the deck, start at one end with the screws and nails and move to the other end. I started up at the bulkhead and went aft, propped the cleat up on some scraps and bit by bit installed it. Had a bit of a problem with the first one, when I realized the pilot hole was too small and I had some collateral damage. But this is how it turned out.

    IMG_5150.jpg

    This is only about 40% of the cleats that I need. But at least I've got a process to do it with.

    By the way, my references to Geary are for his thread Hartley TS14 Construction :http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...hlight=hartley Great Stuff!

    More later,

    Eric
    Last edited by FishoutaFlorida; 12-29-2020 at 07:36 PM.
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  14. #574
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Happy New Year!

    Please!!!!

    Anyway, I hope that you all were able to celebrate the New Year (and my birthday) and are ready for it! I know that I am!

    So I haven't done much on the boat since my last posting. What I have done is to get myself into a case of analysis paralysis over this coaming design. I'm hoping that someone could help me out.

    The way I set up this coaming location is as shown above. That cleat is for the outside ply. Now I need to figure out where to put the inside one for a boxed coming setup. The outside ply was easy to set up because it is matching the side walls of the cubby and that is specified as 3 in 12. Geary's version is better than mine in that he took the time to scarf the coaming onto the side wall. I was in a hurry or something and decided to fit the coaming later. Once again my reluctance to take the time to do something right has come back to bite me. Not sure how hard, or where, but I know it will.

    Here is one of Geary's photo's of his coaming.

    Coamings3.jpg

    A detail that he posted showed a 2" white oak cap with a 5" wide base. In looking at this photo, the inside coaming wall appears vertical to me. What do you think? He posted a lot of drawings and some show the cleat with a square edge on the inside while others show the inside wall on a reclining slope.

    Not a super big question, just choose one option and go for it right? For me in this case, I've come up with another option that deserves some discussion and hole poking. This option came from this forum in Joe's thread about his build (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...he-Night-Heron). When building the transom seats he shared a detail that kind of caught my attention.

    Seat Design Criteria.jpg

    The reason it caught my attention is that it links seat characteristics and pleasurable seating. At least that is what I saw. So even though the coaming will be at the tallest maybe 9" would it be worth my while to follow some of these recommendations? On top of that, the coaming will be decreasing in height as you move aft of the bulkhead. So if I hold the cap width and coaming wall slopes consistent and vary the total height of the coaming wouldn't the base width vary? Right. Here is a drawing of my template to solve for the base width and inner coaming panel height, not to scale. I was using the Type 3 option.

    Coaming.jpg

    This is the section at the cubby bulkhead which is the highest coaming is. Now the real question is, how much seat width should I maintain as a minimum? With square inner coaming panel I don't get below 13" and it goes up to around 16" as a max. Now I haven't measured this but the base is about 2" wider on the average from the base of the vertical inner panel. The other item to consider is that if these panels are only 8" to 9" tall at a max, with that slope be enough to provide the comfort proposed in that detail? That detail shows support all of the up to the shoulders.

    Vertical or sloped inner coaming wall section?

    Please discuss, dissect, tear apart or analyze. I'm really looking forward to your comments.

    Thanks!

    Eric
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  15. #575
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings all,

    The solution to my question of vertical or reclined inner coaming wall came to me the other afternoon. Compromise, head for the middle to reduce the recline from 14 degrees to 7. I modified the slope on the inner cleats and installed them to this standard.

    IMG_5171.jpg

    Kind of cool outside, so I kept the big door closed. In the end, I didn't want to give up too much seat width. I felt that If I didn't try to do something keep that seat wide, well then I did nothing. By the way, I'm using thickened epoxy as a glue and am using bs wood screws (#10-1 3/4") to catch the frames I cross (3) and then use #14 bs ring nails in other places.

    Next task will be to try and fit a piece of ply on both the outer and inner cleats. The coamings will now overlap onto the cubby walls and I'll glue and clench nail them together. Trying to think of some way of making that look stylistic perhaps?

    Speaking of old growth Doug Fir, as I was pondering what I was going to do, I caught myself staring at the cleat wood.

    IMG_5169a.jpg

    That's 16 growth rings in 3/4", works out to just over 21 rings per inch. I purchased all the wood that I thought that I would need for this boat back in Redondo Beach. And have been dragging it around as we moved to NC and then down to FL. Not sure I can find it down here in FL. This really reminds me that I've been blessed to have the opportunity to get wood like this. Especially when I go looking for it here. I'm going to have to learn more about other wood materials.

    More later,

    Eric
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  16. #576
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings all,

    Looking at the latest post, I see that it's almost 3 weeks since my last update. Contrary to being me being lazy (which I am), I've been working on cutting the ply for the boxed coamings. Sort of flying solo here since the plans do not show that. But when I was looking at Geary's coamings I decided to include them as well. Once I got those cleats down, I had 2 out of 3 dimensions covered, right? 67% of the work done, easy peasy. At least that was what I was hoping.

    The past three weeks I've been reviewing the cardboard templates that I had cut out earlier, checking how much ply I had, sanding, trimming, measuring, sanding, fitting, measuring, sanding, well you know the drill. But I'm catching onto the idea that if you fit parts beforehand, you might like the results. So that's what I did. I lost my camera in the last move, so the only pictures that I'm taking are with the phone. And those are usually shot at the end of the day. With no real photos to detail the process's used, I'll try to explain in words.

    Not that it's rocket science by any means...anyway. Once I decided to just make the top of the coaming about 2" taller than the template from the plans and to have a 2 1/2" top cap there was only one thing left to do. I went to AutoCad and started making a model to solve for the height of the inner ply panel of the coaming. Made everything completely more difficult than necessary and gave me some offsets that should give me a template that will fit like a tight glove. Maybe. But I'm getting ahead of things.

    Once I got the 2 exterior coaming panels cut, trimmed, sanded, sealed (interior side), and fitted with clamps, it was time for the final installation. I mentioned in my last post that I may have to account for my mistake of not making the cabin walls/exterior panel one piece by overlapping the forward portion of the exterior coaming panel over the exterior cabin wall. What I did was to install a backing panel on the inboard side of the cabin wall and used 4 bronze machine screws to clamp the piece for gluing with thickened epoxy. On each side I then had the 4 screws and a bunch of 1 1/4" bronze screws anchored into the cleats. Getting everything aligned was challenging. Anyway, with a full anchored test fit behind me I mixed up the thickened epoxy, painted it in the right spots, held the panel in place and screwed everything in place.

    This is what I got.

    IMG_5259.jpg

    Here's the other side.

    IMG_5256.jpg

    I was very used to looking at the boat without the coamings, it's going to be a bit before I adjust. It kind of looks like it has very slender wings tucked back. Or perhaps like wood sideboards on an old pickup. Next I'm going to build up a wood base cap with bevel cuts and angled edges to make up the space between between the interior and exterior panels and get them installed. From there I just measure the distance between the inner deck cleat and top of the base cap and I've got an offset for that interior panel. Right? Oh and cut off the excess tails on the panels.

    More later.

    Thanks,

    Eric
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  17. #577
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings,

    Just wanted to update my progress, since I will be doing essentially the same things over the next week or two and will not be posting the same stuff over and over. But this process is to build up the base cap for the coamings from the bevel pieces that I cut awhile ago. This morning I fitted the first piece on the port side, cut it to fit correctly, made sure I knew my clamping plan and mixed up some thickened epoxy and glued that puppy in.

    IMG_5274.jpg

    Clamping with the thickened epoxy glue applied. Those little spring clamps really didn't have enough muscle to close the gap, so I added some reinforcements.

    IMG_5275.jpg

    Upcoming tasks will be to install 2 more similar beveled pieces on this side and 3 more on the starboard side. I'll finish the port side first, so one day per board to learn more before heading to the other side. I also need to figure out what the end section of the coaming looks like. Probably will have a limber hole, but what about internal support for the base cap? Geary didn't use any and felt fine about that. I'm thinking about installing a couple of bulkheads over the frames, with limber holes. Storage access holes in the cockpit will also need to be cut.

    Fun, fun, fun! I am enjoying having more time to work on the boat, now that we are through the holidays.

    More later.

    Thanks,

    Eric
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  18. #578
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

  19. #579
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings,

    Here is the port coaming base cap waiting for the glue to set.

    image 5.jpg

    My efforts on the bevel of the cleat don't seem to be as good as I was aiming for. I might find out differently once I start working on creating a template for the inner panel, but...

    More later.

    Thanks,

    Eric
    “Retiring feels like death of self, but I'm looking forward to the rebirth - The opportunity to re-imagine my purpose.”

    Michael Bennett

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