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Thread: More Hartley

  1. #421
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    I did the friends and neighbours method.

    Building a frame around one side, as in 2 frames aka rocking chair skids, but boxy, could help prevent knocks and scratches. But it's a bit of a production.

    Is it heavy?
    The friends method is tricky with hand holds. Maybe lots of padding/blankets to spare yourself tears if it gets dropped.

    I like your colour!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah gypsie, I like the safety in numbers idea. I've got a lot of moving quilts from the last move, and some really strong cardboard boxes too! But I'll bet that I build a frame

    And I certainly appreciate you noticing the color, I was worried about that. Even tried to get a Fenway Green! But I'm liking this, sort of a British Racing Green. Maybe with some brown trim, tan sails?
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  2. #422
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Sand/cream coloured deck and cabin might work well with it....
    I'd be thinking a rich red hardwood, finished bright, for hand holds, rub rail, tiller and other trim. You're in the West Coast now? Those Australian blue gums that cause all those Californian fires have a beautiful red finish when varnished/oiled up.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  3. #423
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Sand/cream coloured deck and cabin might work well with it....
    I'd be thinking a rich red hardwood, finished bright, for hand holds, rub rail, tiller and other trim. You're in the West Coast now? Those Australian blue gums that cause all those Californian fires have a beautiful red finish when varnished/oiled up.
    Definitely want to have the deck a lighter, sandy color, maybe the cuddy too?

    Unfortunately or fortunately (Kids and their families are now in Florida) we are no longer on the west coast. Work brought me out to the east coast again last Christmas. But I like the idea of some naturally red finish materials, not sure I can get any Australian Blue Gum out here. From what I can tell, CA wants to treat it as what it seems to be, an invasive non-native plant that can displace native species. Maybe I should look around for an alternative material with that type of finish...Good to know about that finish though, just in case I come across some!

    Anyhow, thanks gypsie!

    Looks like T-storms are predicted for the 4th in our neck of the woods, so hopefully I'll get the second of three coats of top coat on the hull!
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  4. #424
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings all,

    DSCF7859.jpg

    Nothing new going on here, just more of the same. Light sanding, painting and wondering why I'm not doing this, that and the other thing to improve the finish. But one thing is different, putting on the last of 3 coats today!

    DSCF7862.jpg

    A true 20/20 paint job!

    Overall I'm happy with the paint job. Adding the penetrol to the paint for rolling and tipping was definitely the right thing. But I can still see some brush marks when it's stopped flowing and dried. But my real problems, outside of the starboard chine, is the finish of the fiberglass. I'm still finding mini goofs as I get up close and personal to the hull. I'll give an advance apology for my lack of craftsmanship to any fish that may be offended.

    But now I'm going to let this sit and cure for awhile and do something else. Like build a rudder, find a fabricator for the centerboard or paint my truck canopy. Decisions, decisions.

    So keep those cards and letters coming!

    More later,

    Eric
    Last edited by FishoutaFlorida; 07-06-2019 at 01:24 PM.
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

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  5. #425
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Looks fine to me! Now come the hard part...keeping busy enough while it cures and not letting impatience get the better of you

  6. #426
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    and not letting impatience get the better of you
    Well I tried.

    But I forgot all about the skeg protection. Had the aluminum hiding in the garage and I just plain forgot about it. So that was this weekend's task.

    This is a substitute for a bronze cap. Couldn't find it for a fair price so I found this 1" x 1/8" bar, laid it out, measured cut and then laid out the holes. I'm using 1" flat #8 stainless screws with a slotted head (Not sure why, but I was fairly adamant about that). I also didn't have at countersink drill bit for keeping the head flush so I improvised. Drilled the countersink, then the screw shank sized hole.

    DSCF7870.jpg

    Then set the bars in place, taped them down and drilled the pilot holes.

    DSCF7878.jpg

    With a power drill, came back and screwed them down.

    DSCF7884.jpg

    So now I've got the bars in from the transom to just forward of the centerboard. Still need to put more bar forward to the stem and up. Not too sure how far up the stem I'll take it. Any ideas?

    Another question I've got is why was I using slotted screws on these bars? My memory isn't reminding me of the reason why. A hazard of buying stuff too far ahead of the need I guess.

    Anyway, anyone have any thoughts about this? Slotted screw heads, not my memory! Maybe the problem was using a power drill, but I had a heck of a hard time keeping that driver in the slot. Kept walking out unless I was all over it. At least once it walked onto the paint before I picked it up. The slot was shallow, so maybe I should have just used a screwdriver? Maybe it's just part of those skills that are needed? I haven't done any research on this, and I will. But thought I'd see what the brain trust has to offer!

    Thanks, and keep those cards and letters coming.

    More later,

    Eric
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  7. #427
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Did you get some Tef-Gel between those screws and the aluminum? You'll want some kind of electrolytic barrier in there and that seems to work pretty well. Looking great, though!

  8. #428
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    I'd bring the strip up just below where your bow eye might go. Or at least above where a bow roller might touch when launching/retrieving.

    Some folks like slotted screws because they are easy to clean out if putty/paint/goop gets in them. Another reason is they could be easier to control with a brace bit vs power drill and not strip out or shear off, with the tip there being to have a properly sized bit that fits the screw slot. Lou shapes his bits to fit, most time the bit/screw doesn't match up perfect.
    Cheers
    Kent and Skipper
    Small Boat Restoration blog

  9. #429
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    When you start sailing, pretty soon she'll have a little wear and tear occur, which won't be a big deal but it will make you laugh when remembering concerns over minor details in the paint finish. Hopefully the ali wear strips are going to end up right where needed, but it is one of those details which will only be clear after a bit of sailing time. Maybe no need to worry too much about getting everything just right until after your sea trials begin. She is looking really fabulous. Can't wait to see her afloat.

  10. #430
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Did you get some Tef-Gel between those screws and the aluminum? You'll want some kind of electrolytic barrier in there and that seems to work pretty well. Looking great, though!
    Ouch! I was thinking about that last night. I've got the greatest ideas after the fact! Thanks Hugh! Now if I can just back these puppies out a bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Signalcharlie View Post
    I'd bring the strip up just below where your bow eye might go. Or at least above where a bow roller might touch when launching/retrieving.

    Some folks like slotted screws because they are easy to clean out if putty/paint/goop gets in them. Another reason is they could be easier to control with a brace bit vs power drill and not strip out or shear off, with the tip there being to have a properly sized bit that fits the screw slot. Lou shapes his bits to fit, most time the bit/screw doesn't match up perfect.
    Thanks Kent, I believe that the bow eye will be the limit. I certainly agree with using a brace, again after the fact, but I'm learning! I definitely didn't think of shaping the bit, but I've got a lot of them so I don't see why not. I'll try that idea out on the last section of bar.

    Nice restoration blog too! Looks like you might have been down this road before!

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    When you start sailing, pretty soon she'll have a little wear and tear occur, which won't be a big deal but it will make you laugh when remembering concerns over minor details in the paint finish. Hopefully the ali wear strips are going to end up right where needed, but it is one of those details which will only be clear after a bit of sailing time. Maybe no need to worry too much about getting everything just right until after your sea trials begin. She is looking really fabulous. Can't wait to see her afloat.
    Thanks Geoff! I was kind of chuckling about that earlier, about the time that the bit walked out of the slot and marked up tiny bits of paint. Thinking that if I was bugged about that, there would be no end to it! In a couple of weeks I won't be thinking about those details if I get the hull turned and back on the trailer. There will be new details to worry about!

    Thanks for all of the comments!
    Last edited by FishoutaFlorida; 07-15-2019 at 07:48 AM.
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

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  11. #431
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by FishoutaFlorida View Post
    Another question I've got is why was I using slotted screws on these bars? My memory isn't reminding me of the reason why.
    Those strips will be worth the effort.
    Beaching will wear the front edge - got any more of that bar?

    I'm enjoying watching this boat come together - thanks for sharing and keep it up!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  12. #432
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    I heard of someone who was cursing their aluminum rub strips, saying it just grabbed on sharp stuff. Think that would be soft un-aged aluminum with no anodising. Hard alloys, duralumin etc shouldn't have that issue so much.
    2019: returning from being sidelined with medical probs, crossing fingers worst is over, still in "armchair enthusiast" mode for time being.

  13. #433
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    I'd be concerned that the leading edges would bend away from the boat with gunk jamming in from the front.
    Once it lifts a little, it will only get worse.
    But - suck it and see.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  14. #434
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    That could be solved by also gluing the leading edges... but as gypsie says, try it first. May be a non issue.

  15. #435
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyboy View Post
    I heard of someone who was cursing their aluminum rub strips, saying it just grabbed on sharp stuff. Think that would be soft un-aged aluminum with no anodising. Hard alloys, duralumin etc shouldn't have that issue so much.
    You know Plyboy, that thought happened before the fact this time. But as stiff as this stuff is, I decided to drop that concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    I'd be concerned that the leading edges would bend away from the boat with gunk jamming in from the front.
    Once it lifts a little, it will only get worse.
    But - suck it and see.

    I'm not sure that I'll test it as recommended Trev, but I did set up the anchor screws at 3" o.c. and left 1" for the first and last anchors. Hopefully that will keep me out of the gunk jamming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock;
    That could be solved by also gluing the leading edges... but as gypsie says, try it first. May be a non issue.


    Well Geoff, I think I'm liking this idea. Hopefully it will be a non issue! But to increase my odds of success, I tapered all the ends!

    DSCF7868.jpg

    May not be worth the time it took, but at least I'm feeling better about my chances of keeping this strip on the skeg! My plan B? Only pull up on sandy beaches!

    But I've still got to put the final piece in, from just ahead of the centerboard to the bow eye. The kicker is that I don't have a single piece long enough for the task. I'm going to try and use a scarf joint and creative anchor screw placement to make that work.

    At least until I can get to a sandy beach!

    Thanks and keep those cards and letters coming!

    More later,

    Eric
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  16. #436
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    You could consider just running the band from the front of the c/b case to the water line at the stem.

    Sorry if i added a worry about the alloy lifting. I'm sure it'll be just fine.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  17. #437
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    You could consider just running the band from the front of the c/b case to the water line at the stem.

    Sorry if i added a worry about the alloy lifting. I'm sure it'll be just fine.
    No worries, at least none that I can attribute to your comment! Actually, these comments are what will make this boat better!

    Keep those cards and letters coming!!!
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  18. #438
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    I've got some real exciting stuff this time out.

    More aluminum! Marked out the location of existing screws.

    DSCF7889.jpg

    And moved the starting spot until a standard 3" oc would work. I guess that I didn't take any pictures during installation, but I did what I was doing before. As I mentioned before, I didn't have a single piece long enough and I was ruminating about a scarf joint. Nope, reality says just use a butt joint.

    DSCF7892.jpg

    One thing that I'd like to mention is that I was complaining about slotted screw heads with a power driver a bit ago. Kent pointed out that perhaps a bit and brace was the way to go. Spot on Kent! Again the problem was the nut behind the wheel and when I took the time to fit the bit to the screw and use tactile senses to drive it, end of problem.

    DSCF7896.jpg

    I will know next time!

    DSCF7898.jpg

    Not the most challenging bit of construction, but since it's all new to me I'm going to show it to y'all. Good or bad, I can learn from your comments, ideas and observations.

    So keep those cards and letters coming.

    More later,

    Eric
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  19. #439
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Looking good! Can you clock the screw slots so they are aligned with the centerline for me? Up on the stem the slot would drain better

    Loving the color too, it's strange how shadows and angles pop on a darker color.
    Cheers
    Kent and Skipper
    Small Boat Restoration blog

  20. #440
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    Thumbs up Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    looking good! Can you clock the screw slots so they are aligned with the centerline for me? Up on the stem the slot would drain better
    DSCF7901.jpg

    Thanks!
    Last edited by FishoutaFlorida; 07-21-2019 at 06:09 PM.
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

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  21. #441
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Coming along very nicely. I used 1/8 x 1in. aluminum from the bow eye, around the slot and back over the skeg to the transom. After many hauls ashore for camping up in the High Peaks area, it's held up well. I may advise the same size strips for the outboard edge of the sheer strake rub rail. That area takes a lot of abuse even when using hull bumpers. As an afterthought I assembled a 2 1/2 foot stand upon foredeck-bowsprit out of oak that's supported by a radiused 1/4 by 1 1/2in. 2 ft. iron strap from the bow eye out to about a foot forward of the actual stem. Very shiplike looking....nearly useless.. Keep on keepin' on!
    Last edited by Lugrig; 07-25-2019 at 04:50 PM.

  22. #442
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Looking good.
    To do something good
    with no
    Because.

  23. #443
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    You are getting there

  24. #444
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Neat - nice crisp line.
    I like it.

    I put a smidge of goop on the screw shaft before i screw it in. Mineral turps cleans any squeeze out away easily.
    You just got to be careful, the screw hole is a lovely route for water to ingress and stay put = rot.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  25. #445
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    That bottom screw need to go about four degrees clockwise. Other than that, it's looking pretty good.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  26. #446
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Looking good.
    Thanks Gary, never ending pursuit, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmiller View Post
    You are getting there
    Greetings gmiller, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Neat - nice crisp line.
    I like it.

    I put a smidge of goop on the screw shaft before i screw it in. Mineral turps cleans any squeeze out away easily.
    You just got to be careful, the screw hole is a lovely route for water to ingress and stay put = rot.
    Thanks Trev! You know whenever I have one of the "should I have done this like that" questions floating around in my head, you seem to pick up on that and gently set me straight. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    That bottom screw need to go about four degrees clockwise. Other than that, it's looking pretty good.
    Well Pete, after I took the photo and put it up I was looking at it and thought "That bottom screw is out about 4 degrees clockwise, I wonder if anyone will catch that?" Thanks!

    So I guess I've got a couple of things to do here. Little things, but these observations and comments are why I use this medium. It just gives me a better product and more insight to building a desireable dinghy! Now what kind of goop was Trev talking about? 5200? Thickened epoxy? Silly Putty?

    Keep those cards and letters coming!

    More later,

    Eric
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  27. #447
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    It never ends, once you launch it then becomes maintenance.
    To do something good
    with no
    Because.

  28. #448
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    It never ends, once you launch it then becomes maintenance.
    Oh boy, I'm glad I like messing around with things! But I'll be even happier when I get to put some wear and tear on it!

    Not much going on lately. Last weekend I cut up the rudder pieces. Very high tech.

    DSCF7905.jpg

    Mixed up some thickened epoxy (light batch), spread it around and put it together using a 3/8" bolt to register the pieces.

    DSCF7908.jpg

    And set them aside to cure. Will probably start trimming and sanding them later on this weekend. Major thinking about getting the hull on the trailer is also going on.

    But I had a real interesting week. Recently I had seen a blog, probably geary's, that showed a mast section for a Hartley 14. I'd never seen it before, not in my set of plans anyway. Let me use the wayback machine and take us back to when I first decided to build a Hartley 14. Reading various blogs about building a Hartley, I found several who told of horror stories of acquiring plans from NZ, saying that it took up to 5 weeks to get them. Also read of a company in the US that sold them as well as delivering them in a reasonable time frame. So I took the local road and bought my plans from the US company. They came in a week or so and I was off! 2 full sized E-sheets with all of the frames and a variety of other details stuck in. Also included were several 8.5 x 11 sheets with all sorts of other details and a photo copy of a magazine article from the late 50's describing the build. I was happy that I got my plans on time and felt bad for others that didn't.

    Back to the current situation, as I've been taking a break and letting the oil paint dry I've been contemplating the future. Like flipping the hull, getting it on the trailer and moving onto the deck/interior. Anyway, as I was reading around I found a blog where someone said that there were 4sheets of drawings! Not the two that I had. I guessed that the 8.5 x 11's had some of the stuff from the missing two sheets, but sure didn't have the mast section. So I took a chance and sent off the payment for Hartley 14 plans to Hartley-Boats.com and put a marker on my calendar sometime in August since others complained about the service (wasn't Hartley-Boats.com at that time).

    Guess what, Friday I received a full, 4 sheet set of plans from NZ, via Par Avion Air. Looking through the drawings I was amazed by what I had missed out on. Complete mast design, and all sort of other stuff. I sent a note of thanks to the company and semi explained all of the above. Got a very nice reply from John explaining that he had just purchased all of the Hartley plans, prints, books and copyrights. Looks like he has stepped in and is getting everything sorted out.

    Because I may have not been very supportive of the old company in NZ (which I think was evidently a company between the original Hartley org and the current owner). I wanted to take the time to let folks know what the latest vibe is at Hartley-Boats.com!

    Now I just need to get mine in the water!

    Keep those cards and letters coming!

    More late,

    Eric
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  29. #449
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Can't wait to see her right side up on said trailer... the suspense is building!

  30. #450
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings all,

    Time to harvest opinions!

    The plans call for 5/16" CRS centerboard. The local fabricator that I'm getting quotes from has either 1/4" Cold Rolled Steel or 3/8" Cold Rolled Steel.

    The choices are to use either 20% less than the the design weight or 20% more. The slot is built with a 7/8" slot.

    Which size should I use, 1/4" or 3/8"?

    Thanks for your thoughts!
    Last edited by FishoutaFlorida; 08-15-2019 at 07:15 AM. Reason: Spelled out Cold Rolled Steel
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  31. #451
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    1/4 will be too flexy.
    -Dave

  32. #452
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    1/4 will be too flexy.
    Really? I didn't think of that. Thanks Dave!

    Any other opinions out there?
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  33. #453
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Greetings all,

    Still mulling over 1/4" steel or 3/8" steel with 5/16" steel specified.

    Original thought was 1/4" and add 14# of ballast around the centerboard case. Not sure that Dave's comment about being too flexy, but it got me thinking though. Still can't believe that the flexy difference between 5/16" and 1/4" plate steel will make that much of a difference. But I don't have a lot of experience sailing either.

    Any more thoughts out there? Bring 'em on please!

    THANKS!
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  34. #454
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    If you go the 20% more than the design weight how many pounds is that? 14? If so that's bugger all compared to say a carton in the bilge.

  35. #455
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    Default Re: More Hartley

    Yeah it would be about 14 lbs over design weight. I'm beginning to think that would not be a problem for a newbie sailor like me, maybe even help?

    Here is the plan for the board.

    Centerboard Detail_Final.jpg

    The centerboard case is 3/4" wide which would give 3/16" clearance on each side as opposed to the design 1/4" clearance. Does anyone think that would be a problem? It is a trailer sailer after all, but if everything goes right in life, it may have the opportunity to stay in the water more than normal. Would that make a difference? Bigger or smaller, which way should I go?

    Anyway, any thoughts about the centerboard having a tighter fit in the case than designed?

    Right now my thoughts are to go small, add ballast around the centerboard and save a buck or two on the purchase. But I'm really looking for some opinions/thoughts on the decision.

    Thanks!

    Eric
    Last edited by FishoutaFlorida; 08-16-2019 at 08:55 AM.
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

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