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Thread: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legislat

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    Default Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legislat

    More from YCMTSU Files

    Lorde Took a Stand for Palestinian Rights. Now an Israeli Organization Is Suing Her Fans
    .
    When the pop star Lorde made the decision in December 2017 to cancel an upcoming concert in Israel, a predictable backlash gathered steam.
    Social media invective ensued. The New Zealand Jewish Council said Lorde had ďsuccumbed to a small but loud group of extremist bullies.Ē And right-wing celebrity Rabbi Shmuley Boteach paid to print an advertisement in the Washington Post calling the singer a ďbigot.Ē
    Less expected, however, was a lawsuit aimed at two Lorde fans in New Zealand who called on the pop star to boycott Israel over its human rights abuses that harm Palestinians.



    http://inthesetimes.com/article/2089...n-Shurat-HaDin

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    wow..

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    That’s just nuts.
    Liberalism, the Nazis were shouting from the rooftops, meant weakness: James Holland

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    wow..
    Wow is Right!
    Congress is considering the Israel Anti-Boycott Act, which would impose fines or up to 20 years in prison for those advocating the boycott of Israel. Groups like Shurat HaDin have filed multiple legal complaints against organizations, including the Presbyterian Church and the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America, that have called for boycotts of Israel.
    In addition, 24 states have anti-BDS laws on the books, most of which bar state contracts from going to companies that boycott Israel. Some of these laws have required individuals to sign oaths stating they would not boycott Israel before receiving state money.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Screw these rude scumbags. I'm mad enough to search for products and businesses in Israel, post a list, and start a complete boycott.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! óCole Porter

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    More from YCMTSU Files

    Lorde Took a Stand for Palestinian Rights. Now an Israeli Organization Is Suing Her Fans
    .
    When the pop star Lorde made the decision in December 2017 to cancel an upcoming concert in Israel, a predictable backlash gathered steam.
    Social media invective ensued. The New Zealand Jewish Council said Lorde had ďsuccumbed to a small but loud group of extremist bullies.Ē And right-wing celebrity Rabbi Shmuley Boteach paid to print an advertisement in the Washington Post calling the singer a ďbigot.Ē
    Less expected, however, was a lawsuit aimed at two Lorde fans in New Zealand who called on the pop star to boycott Israel over its human rights abuses that harm Palestinians.



    http://inthesetimes.com/article/2089...n-Shurat-HaDin
    Wont work, we have freedom of speech. That plus US law doesn't apply here.

    John Welsford
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    yea, I do not see any of those laws standing up to the SCOTUS. If we can protest our own government, do they really think we are not allowed to protest against a another country's government?

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    A number of years ago my orthodox Jewish next door neighbor was taking his son to a martial arts class. I saw them in the driveway and asked what form he practiced.
    The father said it was an ancient Jewish martial art called..... sosueme.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    Wont work, we have freedom of speech. That plus US law doesn't apply here.

    John Welsford
    Mmmm, not so sure about that - the US exudes its law across international boundaries in all sorts of interesting ways. Kim dot com comes to mind.
    In my job, we have to be extremely careful not to butt heads with this lot: https://www.bis.doc.gov
    Crazy s*** like the US govt obsession with old encryption technologies mean that if we embed a Wifi module that has been on US soil at anypoint in its travels, our company is subsequently liable under US law if the end product ultimately gets onsold to one of those banned sandpit countries.
    If the same module (ironically made by an Israeli company) goes to NZ via Asia, that's OK. One of the European companies we work closely with, has a person full time managing nothing but US export restriction documentation.

    Pete
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Originally Posted by john welsford

    Wont work, we have freedom of speech. That plus US law doesn't apply here.

    John Welsford
    The suit was filed in Israel, not the US.

    Still, it's pretty wild that a court in Israel would allow such a case in the first place. Strange times.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    This suit was indeed filed in Israel, but, as mentioned, they've gotten their bigoted hands into 24 US states as well & are pushing for national legislation.

    WTF? How can it possibly be legal to prevent someone from joining a boycott? I see lots of pieces on it in the news & the BDS thing is spun as anti-Semitic. One can be against some of the things Israel has done without being anti-Semitic!

    This whole thing really gets me - criticize Israel & you're anti-Semitic - total BS.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    So Shurat HaDin, an Israeli legal organization, is seeking to stifle the political speech of two citizens of another nation? I know that would go nowhere if they were two U.S. citizens.

    I suppose a judgement against them in absentia would mean they would never travel to Israel for fear of arrest. Surely New Zealand would never agree to extradite them to Israel for trial?


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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    So Shurat HaDin, an Israeli legal organization, is seeking to stifle the political speech of two citizens of another nation? I know that would go nowhere if they were two U.S. citizens.

    I suppose a judgement against them in absentia would mean they would never travel to Israel for fear of arrest. Surely New Zealand would never agree to extradite them to Israel for trial?


    Are you sure about that? Currently 24 states have laws against joining a boycott against Israel & there's talk of making it federal.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret
    Are you sure about that? Currently 24 states have laws against joining a boycott against Israel & there's talk of making it federal.
    So we are going to toss the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution out the window?

    I'm guessing those state laws have yet to be legally challenged. Which would mean no one has yet been prosecuted under those laws.

    I would bet against anything like that passing muster by the SCOTUS. If the SCOTUS were to ever uphold such a law the game would be up. The U.S.A. could no longer claim to be a free country and be taken seriously by the actual free world.
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 02-13-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    I find it amazing that Israel, for being such a small state, can hold the rest of the world hostage to their wants and desires.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    So we are going to toss the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution out the window?

    I'm guessing those state laws have yet to be legally challenged. Which would mean no one has yet been prosecuted under those laws.

    I would bet against anything like that passing muster by the SCOTUS. If the SCOTUS were to ever uphold such a law the game would be up. The U.S.A. could no longer claim to be a free country and be taken seriously by the actual free world.
    Seems that way. I don't get why there isn't a large hue & cry over this, but then it's Israel & I guess they can do no wrong - so much so that they have the right to tell us what we can & cannot do.

    Here's a pic of the map from the link above:

    BDS.jpg

    Apologies - my screen capture tool seems to have "clicked" on Wisconsin. It's a "has a law on the books" state.
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    I am not surprised about NJ, NY, PA, and MD. I used to work a lot of Bat and Bar Mitzvahs in those states.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Let's be clear, here. It's not against US law, or any US State's law to boycott Israel. In some states,
    a company may be barred from participating in a state contract if it boycotts Israel, or more specifically, " engages with BDS." The reason generally given is: " posing undue risks as contracting partners."

    Here's a decent link: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/1...014735793.html

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Let's be clear, here. It's not against US law, or any US State's law to boycott Israel. In some states,
    a company may be barred from participating in a state contract if it boycotts Israel, or more specifically, " engages with BDS." The reason generally given is: " posing undue risks as contracting partners."

    Here's a decent link: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/1...014735793.html

    Kevin
    Well... From your link:

    Last week, Dickinson, a city in Texas, posted an application for hurricane relief funds that mandated applicants to sign an agreement promising they will not boycott Israel. The city cited a Texas law that prohibits state agencies from contracting companies that boycott Israel.
    The move prompted widespread condemnation from rights groups, including the ACLU.


    In July, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper signed a law that prohibits state agencies from doing business with companies that engage in BDS.


    A month earlier, Kansas Governor Sam Brownback signed HB 2409, a similar law which requires both state-contracted individuals and companies to provide a written certificate proclaiming that they are not participating in a boycott of Israel.
    The first one certainly affects individuals. While the others seem to be that if you want state work you can't do it - what right does a state have to tell a company this? If a company chooses not to do business with Israel, isn't that their own business? It's almost as if Israel got protected status. Soon saying anything against the country will be called a hate crime...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    The first one certainly affects individuals. While the others seem to be that if you want state work you can't do it - what right does a state have to tell a company this? If a company chooses not to do business with Israel, isn't that their own business? It's almost as if Israel got protected status. Soon saying anything against the country will be called a hate crime...
    Hey, I don't think it's right. It's just the law.

    These laws get passed because Jewish/ Israeli lobbying groups in this country are well-funded and well-organized and capture the ear of legislators. For any chance get these laws rescinded, an equally organized, equally well-financed group needs to rise up. I know I don't have those resources.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    This poses an interesting problem for RWWs who have long dealt in Jewish conspiracy theories (international bankers) and a general anti-Semitism, and are now expected to fall in line with the Republican deference to the far-right Israeli faction led by Benjamin Netanyahu.

    Ahh, for those good old days!
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Hey, I don't think it's right. It's just the law.

    These laws get passed because Jewish/ Israeli lobbying groups in this country are well-funded and well-organized and capture the ear of legislators. For any chance get these laws rescinded, an equally organized, equally well-financed group needs to rise up. I know I don't have those resources.

    Kevin
    Sorry if I came on strong! It's just that the idea of being told who I have to buy from (or choose not to buy from) is about as anti-American as it gets.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Sorry if I came on strong! It's just that the idea of being told who I have to buy from (or choose not to buy from) is about as anti-American as it gets.
    No body is telling you, no one has your arm twisted up your back.
    They are just appealing to your sense of morality.

    Pry tell, what is anti American about this?


    Especially when there was a decades long boycott on Cuba?
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 02-13-2018 at 04:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Meanwhile in Israel, a recently deceased Mizrahi - Jews of Middle-Eastern or North African descent - was not awarded the Israelīs highest honour, the 'Israel Prize', which is not surprising:

    “We live in an apartheid state,” she told French newspaper Le Monde in January 2016. “The occupation is like a terminal patient ... Israeli society’s main characteristic is denial. It is a prisoner of its own rhetoric about security and victimhood.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ob...-a8171991.html

    Israelīs President Rivlin coughed up some eye-wash following the news of her death.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    No body is telling you, no one has your arm twisted up your back.
    They are just appealing to your sense of morality.

    Pry tell, what is anti American about this?


    Especially when there was a decades long boycott on Cuba?
    That was essentially about bananas, a fruit that is notoriously indigestible, wreaking havoc on the health of US citizens.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    No body is telling you, no one has your arm twisted up your back.
    They are just appealing to your sense of morality.

    Pry tell, what is anti American about this?


    Especially when there was a decades long boycott on Cuba?
    If I don't want to buy from somewhere, or if I do want to buy from somewhere, that's my business - not the governments. OK - I can see not buying from a country we're at war with - but last I checked we aren't with Israel or Palestine.

    As far as Cuba goes, please do not get me started on the avarice & stupidity of the embargo. Same thing as this - just gov't bought & paid for by a company instead of a nation.

    There was a long boycott on South Africa - during apartheid. No one said we couldn't boycott them.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    .....There was a long boycott on South Africa - during apartheid. No one said we couldn't boycott them.
    I suppose you are referring to members of the US population boycotting the South Africans, not official US government policy, as was recently the case with the sanctions that had been put in place to stifle trade with Iran ?

    Can someone enlighten us here on the relative effectiveness (economic) of boycotts, embargoes and sanctions ?

    If 24 US States have made it unlawful to boycott goods from Israel...is the US Govt fearful not so much of the economic discomfort that a boycott may cause to US/Israeli interests, but more so, the anti-Israel climate which may spring to life, should US citizens be allowed to boycott Israeli goods and services ?

    Needless to say, Israel is the major king-pin of US Middle Eastern Policy.
    Last edited by carioca1232001; 02-13-2018 at 07:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    exactly what does Israel make that people can boycott?

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Originally Posted by Garret

    Sorry if I came on strong! It's just that the idea of being told who I have to buy from (or choose not to buy from) is about as anti-American as it gets.
    Not strong at all. We good.

    If 24 US States have made it unlawful to boycott goods from Israel.
    Again, this is not the case. One may boycott Israel to their heart's content. But if they do so, they may not be eligible for government contract work.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    exactly what does Israel make that people can boycott?
    Top 10 Israeli Exports to the US
    Israel's exports to America amounted to $18.1 billion or 30.3% of its overall exports.
    1. Gems, precious metals: $7.3 billion
    2. Pharmaceuticals: $3.1 billion
    3. Electronic equipment: $1.9 billion
    4. Machinery: $1.3 billion
    5. Medical, technical equipment: $1.2 billion
    6. Plastics: $513.2 million
    7. Base metal tools, cutlery: $273.3 million
    8. Organic chemicals: $246.5 million
    9. Other chemical goods: $189.5 million
    10. Inorganic chemicals: $177.4 million

    http://www.worldsrichestcountries.co...l_exports.html

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Not strong at all. We good.



    Again, this is not the case. One may boycott Israel to their heart's content. But if they do so, they may not be eligible for government contract work.

    Kevin
    All these laws have consequences for the individual.
    For example,the pending Federal Legislation has NO PROVISIONS for ensuring individuals' 1st Amendment rights.

    "Congress is considering the Israel Anti-Boycott Act, which would impose fines or up to 20 years in prison for those advocating the boycott of Israel. Groups like Shurat HaDin have filed multiple legal complaints against organizations, including the Presbyterian Church and the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America, that have called for boycotts of Israel.


    The term “U.S. person” includes all individuals, corporations and unincorporated associations resident in the United States, including the permanent domestic affiliates of foreign concerns. U.S. persons also include U.S. citizens abroad (except when they reside abroad and are employed by non-U.S. persons) and the controlled in fact affiliates of domestic concerns.

    Even if the government has in the past chosen to pursue penalties against corporations, not individuals, the bill’s language plainly applies to individuals. And even if the government promises not to prosecute individual consumers under the bill, such a promise can be changed at any time, at the whim of any presidential administration. Because the bill applies to individuals, flesh and blood people have reason to be concerned that their own protected boycott activity and speech could violate the law."

    But even apart from limiting the right to boycott by refusing to purchase goods for political reasons, the bill infringes on pure speech. It prohibits even requests for information about whether a person is doing business in Israel in order to support a boycott of Israel, regardless of whether the requester is actually engaged in a boycott.

    For example, suppose a consumer wishes to make a decision about whether to purchase a product made by a certain company.
    She posts a request on Facebook seeking information about that company’s environmental, labor rights, or human rights record.
    Her request is protected speech. But if the company she is asking about operates in the occupied Palestinian territories, and she is asking about that activity in order to support the U.N.’s resolution and then publicly shares any information she receives, she would have reason to fear prosecution under the law.

    https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speec...endment-rights

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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    And don't forget tourism, which is a NIS 20 Billion a year business and most of Israel's tourists are from the US.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Sorry if I came on strong! It's just that the idea of being told who I have to buy from (or choose not to buy from) is about as anti-American as it gets.
    LMFAO, see my post #9.

    Pete
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    Default Re: Lawsuit against two New Zealand citizens is test case for Israelís anti-BDS legi

    Thanks Barry for shedding mor light on the current topic, and its potential implications.

    In due course US citizens will raise their arms and cry out......Merica Uber Alles !

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