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Thread: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

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    Default Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health..._all_dt_fb_top


    Although Freud is out of favor with many contemporary psychologists, modern cognitive psychology suggests that he was on the right track. The tenacity of many of the right’s beliefs in the face of evidence, rational arguments, and common sense suggest that these beliefs are not merely alternate interpretations of facts but are instead illusions rooted in unconscious wishes.

    This is a very human thing to do. As popular writers such as Daniel Kahneman, Cass Sunstein, and Richard Thaler have pointed out, we often use shortcuts when we reason, shortcuts that enable us to make decisions quickly and with little expenditure of mental energy. But they also often lead us astray—we underestimate the risks of events that unfold slowly and whose consequences are felt only over the long term (think global warming) and overestimate the likelihood of events that unfold rapidly and have immediate consequences (think terrorist attacks).

    Although Freud is out of favor with many contemporary psychologists, modern cognitive psychology suggests that he was on the right track.

    Our reasoning is also influenced(motivated, psychologists would say) by our emotions and instincts. This manifests in all kinds of ways: We need to maintain a positive self-image, to stave off anxiety and guilt, and to preserve social relationships. We also seek to maintain consistency in our beliefs, meaning that when people simultaneously hold two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, one or the other must go. And so we pay more attention and give more credence to information and assertions that confirm what we already believe: Liberals enthusiastically recount even the most tenuous circumstantial evidence of Trump campaign collusion with the Russians, and dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporters happily believe that the crowd really was bigger at his candidate’s inauguration.

    These limits to “objective” reasoning apply to everyone, of course—left and right. Why is it that conservatives have taken the lead in falling off the deep edge?

    The answer, I think, lies in the interaction between reasoning processes and personality. It’s each person’s particular motivations and particular psychological makeup that affects how they search for information, what information they pay attention to, how they assess the accuracy and meaning of the information, what information they retain, and what conclusions they draw. But conservatives and liberals typically differ in their particular psychological makeups. And if you add up all of these particular differences, you get two groups that are systematically motivated to believe different things.

    Psychologists have repeatedly reported that self-described conservatives tend to place a higher value than those to their left on deference to tradition and authority. They are more likely to value stability, conformity, and order, and have more difficulty tolerating novelty and ambiguity and uncertainty. They are more sensitive than liberals to information suggesting the possibility of danger than to information suggesting benefits. And they are more moralistic and more likely to repress unconscious drives towards unconventional sexuality.

    Fairness and kindness place lower on the list of moral priorities for conservatives than for liberals. Conservatives show a stronger preference for higher status groups, are more accepting of inequality and injustice, and are less empathic (at least towards those outside their immediate family). As one Tea Party member told University of California sociologist Arlie Hochschild, “People think we are not good people if we don’t feel sorry for blacks and immigrants and Syrian refugees. But I am a good person and I don’t feel sorry for them.”
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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    It’s also not just misinformation gained from too many hours listening to Fox News, either, because correcting the falsehoods doesn’t change their opinions. For example, nine months following the release of President Obama’s long-form birth certificate, the percentage of Republicans who believed that he was not American-born was actually higher than before the release.
    The tenacity of many of the right’s beliefs in the face of evidence, rational arguments, and common sense suggest that these beliefs are not merely alternate interpretations of facts but are instead illusions rooted in unconscious wishes.

    They want to believe the lies - so they do.

    I'm not sure i agree with this one though;

    The right wing’s disregard for facts and reasoning is not a matter of stupidity or lack of education.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    The right wing’s disregard for facts and reasoning is not a matter of stupidity or lack of education
    I can believe it. I went to school with several people who turned out very conservative. One of them, an ex-girlfriend, Graduated from the Naval Academy in 1993. She is a very smart cookie and while she can read through the lies to find the true facts, she is still very conservative. Having said that, most of the people I know who I qualify as "very conservative" were either in our armed forces, or are married to somebody in them. It is only once you get to Vets who were in During the Viet Nam war that my observation falls apart. Most of the vets I know from that time period are quite liberal.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    It's because Liberals suck at handling the alternative.

    How does it feel to suck at being right?

    The truth is up for grabs, but the liberals just F it up so badly that half of the country can't be caught following the liberal slant on the so-called truth.

    It's not conservatives fault that liberals aren't good keepers of the truth.

    Look at what liberals have managed with this forum. All they can do is sit around and insult people all day. Who wants to be like that, other than other bitter liberals?

    I mean, c'mon. You ran Hillary Clinton and she lost to Trump. Hopefully, the next generation of liberals are better at this game than the current one.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    anything that supports the liberal rhetoric MUST be true... "dodging bullets", for instance
    The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.
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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinski. I never told anybody to lie. What? You mean like with a cloth? This deal will keep North Korea from developing nuclear weapons. This deal will keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Trump has a 15% chance of winning.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    They certainly seem to be rather good at telling them, in bulk, for personal advancement and aggrandisement.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinski. I never told anybody to lie. What? You mean like with a cloth? This deal will keep North Korea from developing nuclear weapons. This deal will keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Trump has a 15% chance of winning.
    One reason they tell so many lies: they can't or won't distinguish a lie from a mistake, nor appreciate the context either way, and so feel they must lie in self-defense. Of what? they were once ashamed to specify, since it is always some mode of bigotry. That's why their heroes -- Nixon - Reagan - Bush - the Chimp - Trump -- are those who urge them not to be ashamed.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    I read an interesting Fox News survey that found, one out of every three Trump supporters was as stupid as the other two.
    Skip

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Versus the over 2000 documented lies that Trump has told in the past year alone.

    You can't parody that.
    mdh just remember the one about Clinton, he doesn't remember the 2000 lies Trump told in 2017. Remembering them is not his agenda or priority

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    I think there is an error in the way the question is phrased. I no longer believe there is any such thing as a "conservative."

    The word "conservative", as we currently use it, is not a description of a political ideology... it's an euphemism for the more accurate term: greedy, stupid people who are willing to say and/or believe anything to advance their own agenda.

    There is not a single "conservative" value that "conservatives" are not willing to throw overboard as soon as it becomes inconvenient for them. Witness our return to trillion-dollar deficits, for just one example.

    When you restate the questions posed in the thread title using the more accurate term, the question answers itself.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Mdh I tallied up the dead people resulting from Obama’s and Clinton’s lies......zero. WMD? Is it 5800 Americans?

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    I think the difference is: If a liberal states something as fact and later learns he was wrong, they generally fess up, learn from it, and fix the issue. When the ACA was created and people were told "they could keep their plan" it was genuinely believed they could, until everyone learned just how bad some of those plans were and that people were paying good money for insurance that didn't cover anything of value.

    Liberals accepted that. Everything has growing pains. Conservatives did not, they were drawn to the welcome embrace that they could keep something they had for years, and when told it was not good enough, extremely irked they needed to change it for something else.

    Likewise when a conservative tells something they think is fact and later learn is not, they either tend to never mention it again or continue to tell that "fact" as truth so they do not look like they flopped on an issue.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Just look at the spin and obfuscation to support the premise in the OP. You guys could make Adam Schiffless blush.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Just look at the spin and obfuscation to support the premise in the OP. You guys could make Adam Schiffless blush.
    No, observations, not spin mdh. Actually, there is the underlying issue here, what is a conservative? Just look at the Republican, elected officials are lying and spinning everyday without batting an eye!

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    I think there is an error in the way the question is phrased. I no longer believe there is any such thing as a "conservative."
    It is just as fair to say there is no such thing as a "liberal."

    We had a black president not long ago. He oversaw a department that had practiced discrimination for the past 30 years according to a federal court decision. He oversaw a department that has failed to enforce that federal court decision for 30 years. For 8 years the president oversaw a government that practiced racial discrimination that has led to segregation in housing and really poor schools.

    He was popular among the Democratic voters and the posters here.

    He did help out the rich. The growth of the economy helped those who had stock ownership most. Mostly those in the top 20% - guys like me. He oversaw an economy where economic inequality increased.

    Not as bad as the Republicans, but nothing to be proud of. Nothing worthy of the term liberal.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    The OP is a very handsome fellow, smart and witty.

    At least thats what im told.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time
    Not as bad as the Republicans, but nothing to be proud of. Nothing worthy of the term liberal.
    Correct. 21st century Democrats, as a whole, are moderates. They nominate and elect moderates for president.

    21st century Republicans have moved so far to the right that the only true label for them is radical-right.
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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    It is just as fair to say there is no such thing as a "liberal."

    We had a black president not long ago. He oversaw a department that had practiced discrimination for the past 30 years according to a federal court decision. He oversaw a department that has failed to enforce that federal court decision for 30 years. For 8 years the president oversaw a government that practiced racial discrimination that has led to segregation in housing and really poor schools.

    He was popular among the Democratic voters and the posters here.

    He did help out the rich. The growth of the economy helped those who had stock ownership most. Mostly those in the top 20% - guys like me. He oversaw an economy where economic inequality increased.

    Not as bad as the Republicans, but nothing to be proud of. Nothing worthy of the term liberal.
    That's a false comparison.

    There's a difference between falling short of achieving a high mark, and never having any intention of even trying to achieve it.

    That being said, Obama came much, much closer to meeting that high mark than you give him credit for.

    On the one hand, you distort his record (as if he were responsible for a 30-year old policy) and on the other hand you misrepresent his intentions.

    This is so boring and tiresome and so very transparent.

    The fact that I should have to explain to you such simple ideas pretty much confirms my point, which is that "conservatives" have no intention of engaging in honest debate and thoughtful discourse. They're pretty much only interested in trying to defend their side and smear the other side... and if they have to take leave of their sense to do that, that is no loss to them at all.
    Last edited by ljb5; 02-12-2018 at 12:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    That's a false comparison.

    There's a difference between falling short of achieving a high mark, and never having any intention of even trying to achieve it.

    That being said, Obama came much, much closer to meeting that high mark than you give him credit for.

    On the one hand, you distort his record (as if he were responsible for a 30-year old policy) and on the other hand you misrepresent his intentions.

    This is so boring and tiresome and so very transparent.

    The fact that I should have to explain to you such simple ideas pretty much confirms my point, which is that "conservatives" have no intention of engaging in honest debate and thoughtful discourse. They're pretty much only interested in trying to defend their side and smear the other side... and if they have to take leave of their sense to do that, that is no loss to them at all.
    All of life is false comparison.

    The two issues I stated should be important to liberals. They don't seem to be at least as far as elected officials go.

    Perhaps you could state what the "high mark" is. I would expect some respect for the Constitution and some sense of equality would be rather easy to attain. We had a war over racism a long time ago. Having a president practice it seems to miss that mark by a whole lot.


    I am in no way endorsing the Republicans. It is just that the Democrats claim to be better.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boater14 View Post
    Mdh I tallied up the dead people resulting from Obama’s and Clinton’s lies......zero. WMD? Is it 5800 Americans?
    And up to half a million Iraqis, but nobody really knows for sure.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    All of life is false comparison.
    That's an intellectually lazy claim.

    The two issues I stated should be important to liberals.
    They are. We are just realistic enough to recognize that such issues did not arise all at once, cannot be solved all at once, cannot be solved by just one man, and cannot be solved in isolation of many other pressing issues.

    These are generational issues and societal issues, not for just one man to accomplish.

    We understand this. I sometimes think you do too, but you find it temporarily convenient to act like you don't.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time
    The two issues I stated should be important to liberals. They don't seem to be at least as far as elected officials go.
    Obama got plenty of criticism from the left. But unlike 21st century Republicans we do not eat our young. No one gets labeled a DINO. There are no party purges.

    We understand that perfect is the enemy of the good.
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    Trump is doing beautifully.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Conservatives believe lies because pretty much their whole political philosophy is built on lies. If they stopped believing the lies, they would be forced to face the uncomfortable fact that most of what they believe is factually wrong and morally bankrupt.
    I rather be American than a Republican.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?


    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Regressives are the living epitome of " don't confuse me with the facts, my mind's made up ".

    And THAT is why my signature reads as it does.
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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post
    That's an intellectually lazy claim.



    They are. We are just realistic enough to recognize that such issues did not arise all at once, cannot be solved all at once, cannot be solved by just one man, and cannot be solved in isolation of many other pressing issues.

    These are generational issues and societal issues, not for just one man to accomplish.

    We understand this. I sometimes think you do too, but you find it temporarily convenient to act like you don't.
    It would have taken a few minutes to instruct the proper cabinet officer to stop the unconstitutional federal policy. It would have taken a few minutes on TV for the Attorney General to instruct the various cities that the federal government would not oppose any claim for damage. I solved the entire issue with a couple instructions to people who do my bidding. I would take a few minutes to walk down to the press room and make a statement. Not too long. But long enough to apologize for the prior governmental behavior.

    I am sure $1 trillion spent on resolving those issues would have been $1 trillion well spent.

    I did ask what the "high mark" was. Not answering seems intellectually lazy - to use your phrase. But Democrats seem to make a claim using some sort of code that only Democrats understand. I did not understand you claim of a false comparison. I don't even understand your claim of intellectually lazy. But I am sure you understand your arguments.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Obama got plenty of criticism from the left. But unlike 21st century Republicans we do not eat our young. No one gets labeled a DINO. There are no party purges.

    We understand that perfect is the enemy of the good.
    The Democrats seem to have lost a lot of votes by not giving the groups they claim to have empathy for anything. I am sure that giving nothing is a step up from taking away, but it did result in a figurative eating of the young Democrats.

    Your final comment is an excuse. People are not buying it. I was hopeful that the Democrats would change a bit and get some control of the government in '18. But today I fear that they may never get any control. They are just unwilling to put together a platform that benefits those who are not well above the median.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    It would have taken a few minutes to instruct the proper cabinet officer to stop the unconstitutional federal policy. It would have taken a few minutes on TV for the Attorney General to instruct the various cities that the federal government would not oppose any claim for damage. I solved the entire issue with a couple instructions to people who do my bidding. I would take a few minutes to walk down to the press room and make a statement. Not too long. But long enough to apologize for the prior governmental behavior.

    I am sure $1 trillion spent on resolving those issues would have been $1 trillion well spent.

    I did ask what the "high mark" was. Not answering seems intellectually lazy - to use your phrase. But Democrats seem to make a claim using some sort of code that only Democrats understand. I did not understand you claim of a false comparison. I don't even understand your claim of intellectually lazy. But I am sure you understand your arguments.
    I’m not sure which policy you’re referring to, but you said it goes back 30 years... so that’s Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr and now Trump.

    So it seems like you’re slicing the baloney again.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    I note that ex congressman Mick Mulvaney has no problem in holding several conflicting views at once. A professional Hippocrite. Not a moral in sight.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Just look at the spin and obfuscation to support the premise in the OP. You guys could make Adam Schiffless blush.
    Rebut it if you can.
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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinski. I never told anybody to lie. What? You mean like with a cloth? This deal will keep North Korea from developing nuclear weapons. This deal will keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Trump has a 15% chance of winning.
    You may choose to ignore these lies told by your master, but then that makes you all kinds of nasty names I'm not allowed to call you on this forum. I know you won't bother to click on the link but I just had to leave this here in response to your babbling, you know, for the record.

    In 365 days, President Trump has made 2,140 false or misleading claims
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Jan 19 2018 -

    “You look at the job numbers; you look at the companies pouring back into our country; you look at the stock market at an all-time high; unemployment, 17-year low.”
    DT

    This sentence is a mash-up of Trump's greatest hits: taking credit for jobs deals that predated his presidency, touting a stock market that he had called a "bubble" in the campiagn and extoling unemployment figures that he had previously derided as phony.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Does this thread indicate that conservatives believe lies because that is the only currency that they have?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Why Are Conservatives More Susceptible to Believing Lies?

    Jan 18 2018
    “We need the Wall for the safety and security of our country. We need the Wall to help stop the massive inflow of drugs from Mexico, now rated the number one most dangerous country in the world. If there is no Wall, there is no Deal!” DT
    Repeated 24 times: Jan 18, 2018Jan 16Jan 15Jan 14Jan 11Jan 10Jan 10Jan 9Jan 6Jan 4Dec 28, 2017Dec 8Nov 2Oct 26Oct 25Oct 25Oct 16Oct 16Oct 11Sep 22Aug 28Aug 22Aug 3Jul 28

    The wall will have virtually no effect on drugs coming into the country. According to reports by the DEA, the majority of drugs are smuggled through legal ports of entry or smuggled through underground tunnels. There is also no evidence that Democrats want to have illegal immigrants and drugs "pour into our country." Finally, there appears to be no credible study that ranks Mexico as the most dangerous country in the world.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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