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Thread: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

  1. #1
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    Default Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Would y'all have interest in this? I'm about to do this on my 15 ft one off. They do this all the time on the WCHA site but I don't see it here much because everrrrrryone wants to build strip canoes! ( been there done that 7xs).



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    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Do post. Folks who buy wood and canvas boats seem to have an issue with the canvas work. It's fun and not intimidating as it seems.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Do post. Folks who buy wood and canvas boats seem to have an issue with the canvas work. It's fun and not intimidating as it seems.
    Thanks Canoez! I finally pulled her out from the side of the basement and have her between the old chimney and table saw where she just fits!

    Without canvas filler and paint she's as light as a Kevlar canoe! I'm going to re-outfit her to as a tamden canoe instead of solo


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    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    One off (outrail) the one off! 18 years ago I was being a smart alec and we made the out rails very very slim. Now I'm finding out what a mistake that may have been. duh! They're very very fragile but this one came off even though the very center is ready to break. (Honduras mahogany)

    A lot of people don't realize on W/C canoes, the out rails have a rabbet to allow for the planking & canvas. The out-rail actually clamps canvas to the planking.
    Pic 1 showing the rabbet, #2 first oops! Small piece split off the in-rail. #3 shows how straight planks are tapered and gored to come together and make up for the rise in the stem. 4&5 why I almost always use phillips screw heads even though the slotted screws look nice running with the grain. Quick and careful with a drill bit and it had usually pops off without any danger to the surrounding wood but it can go wrong very quickly lol thank goodness for sharp drill bits and very slow cordless drills.

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    Last edited by DeniseO30; 02-12-2018 at 12:08 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    More soon!

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    Last edited by DeniseO30; 02-12-2018 at 12:10 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Fun project. What are you going to do for filler on the canvas?
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Fun project. What are you going to do for filler on the canvas?
    I'll probably use traditional filler. although I'm waffling between that and latex compound that they use on canvas pipe insulation covering. it's getting pretty good reviews by some of the non-traditionalist types

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    Last edited by DeniseO30; 02-12-2018 at 09:42 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    More soon!

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    What, exactly are we looking at here? I see the fasteners, but am trying to orient myself a bit.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    What, exactly are we looking at here? I see the fasteners, but am trying to orient myself a bit.
    Out-rail screw, only one so far. "why I almost always use phillips screw heads even though the slotted screws look nice running with the grain. Quick and careful with a drill bit and the head usually pops off without any danger to the surrounding wood but it can go wrong very quickly lol"

    on my desk top, gad! the close ups are scary close! LOL I'll try to not copy the photos on every reply .. it can confuse things.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 02-12-2018 at 12:15 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Out-rail screw, only one so far. "why I almost always use phillips screw heads even though the slotted screws look nice running with the grain. Quick and careful with a drill bit and the head usually pops off without any danger to the surrounding wood but it can go wrong very quickly lol"

    on my desk top, gad! the close ups are scary close! LOL I'll try to not copy the photos on every reply .. it can confuse things.
    A set of Alden Grab-Its are your friend in that situation as well. (No personal interest, yadda, yadda - they just do a good job.)
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  11. #11
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    tools... gad i'm swimming in tools. Rail screws are pretty low on trouble. Oh you should see the cool tools I got for when we rebuilt the front of my truck.!

    There was these 12 point head pinch bolts on the upper ball joints.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    tools... gad i'm swimming in tools. Rail screws are pretty low on trouble. Oh you should see the cool tools I got for when we rebuilt the front of my truck.!

    There was these 12 point head pinch bolts on the upper ball joints.
    Not a whole lot going on, all the old canvas off, only a couple small spots the fix on the planking at the rail. Rolled out the new canvas you never quite know if it's long enough until you actually do that, fortunately it is and then some. Going to go with traditional filler, you knew I would! LOL

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    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Update! you can also see some pictures on the cane canoe seats thread. Anyhow, my filler, some new bolts and some tacks are on their way from Northwoods canoe hopefully in a week or so, I'll have the boat hanging inside her canvas envelope!
    I have to admit, I was obsessing over the old bolt holes after relocating the new seat frames and new center thwart. Half inch plug cutter solve the problem!
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 03-01-2018 at 10:35 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Update! you can also see some pictures on the cane canoe seats thread. Anyhow, my filler, some new bolts and some tacks are on their way from Northwoods canoe hopefully in a week or so, I'll have the boat hanging inside her canvas envelope!
    I have to admit, I was obsessing over the old bolt holes after relocating the new seat frames and new center thwart. Half inch plug cutter solve the problem!
    Thank you Rollin!
    I guess it's time for me to get back on the project if I'm going to use this boat in the spring!

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Rollin is still selling traditional filler?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Didn't know you could buy it, I ended up mixing my own.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Didn't know you could buy it, I ended up mixing my own.
    Out of curiosity, what recipe did you use?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Rollin is still selling traditional filler?
    Yep, but I'm sure it does not have lead in it.

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    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Didn't know you could buy it, I ended up mixing my own.
    I don't know how you could not know LOL! at least you know how to mix it!

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    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Which reminds me.... I still have an unopened gallon of genuine Old Town Canoe Co. canvas filler from the mid 1970s down in the paint room in our basement. I guess I should canvas something one of these days......

    filler.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Which reminds me.... I still have an unopened gallon of genuine Old Town Canoe Co. canvas filler from the mid 1970s down in the paint room in our basement. I guess I should canvas something one of these days......

    filler.jpg
    Wouldn't the oils have solidified by now Todd?

    Whatcha you think of this? I was playing on the bandsaw the other night
    Couldn't find the bell hanger drill bit to drill the dowels that I'll make on the lathe.

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    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Still sounds liquid when you shake it, though it would take some serious stirring to mix up the filler settled in the bottom half of the can - but it has always been that way.

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Out of curiosity, what recipe did you use?

    Harold “Doc” Blanchard’s Filler Recipe (reprinted fromWooden Canoe Issue 52)


    • 5 pounds silica
    • 1 quart spar varnish
    • 2 quarts boiled linseed oil
    • 1/2 pint japan dryer

    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Our friends at Kirby Paint make and sell canoe filler too.

    Cheers,

    Fitz
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
    Our friends at Kirby Paint make and sell canoe filler too.

    Cheers,

    Fitz
    I'm rather loyal to Rolin at Northwoods canoe.

    Prep is everything....not quite ready to do the stretch need some more lumber some chain and the friend coming by and don't forget the staples! Denise
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 03-07-2018 at 01:29 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I'm rather loyal to Rolin at Northwoods canoe.

    Prep is everything....not quite ready to do the stretch need some more lumber some chain and the friend coming by and don't forget the staples! Denise
    Meanwhile.... I made outer stems, the original ones were steam bent Ash but in bad condition, so I made laminated cherry that will turn dark and yes! they do fit the curve.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 03-07-2018 at 06:23 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    I restored/re-canvassed a 16 foot old town Yankee about 5 years ago using canvas and filler from Northwoods Canoe. Four years later, despite following instructions to the letter, the filler is cracked and crazed like a dry lake bed and the canoe needs to be recanvassed. The canvas seemed to suck the solvent out of the filler during application leaving a very stiff clay-like substrate behind. I rubbed with a canvas glove until my shoulders were beat and the filler was all used up, put it away in the basement for three months, then had about a year of good use before it started to craze and leak. R.T. wasn't able to guess as to why this happened - he supplied the same canvas and filler he's successfully done about eleventy-kagillian canoes with.

    I had read all the lagging compound, waterlox, Eko-fill, Epoxy, Dacron etc. posts on WCHA before settling on good ol/ canvas and traditional filler. I'm not sure what I'll do this next time around...

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Nope.. nothing to success here, on more then a few restorations also. No idea why you had a problem But using the whole gallon on a 16ft canoe may have been one reason. We've always had about a quart left over.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    That sounds exactly like what can happen if you thin out linsead products with turps instead of linsead oil.

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Ie, the turps evaporate, the oil goes into the wood, and the pigment/chalk is left on the surface cracking

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    I'm thinking the canvas was not tight enough.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Hmmm... Interesting.

    The hull was given a thinned out coat of varnish prior to recover, I used the upside down method instead of right side up hammock method but had no sags - even crisply followed hollows at the ends, I didn't add anything to the mix, just used it as it came out of the can...but as to left over filler...none! In fact I was afraid there wouldn't be enough.
    Weird!

    Don't get me wrong...I wouldn't try to dissuade you from using this method at all. I'm just a little perplexed at my bad luck

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jack View Post
    Hmmm... Interesting.

    The hull was given a thinned out coat of varnish prior to recover, I used the upside down method instead of right side up hammock method but had no sags - even crisply followed hollows at the ends, I didn't add anything to the mix, just used it as it came out of the can...but as to left over filler...none! In fact I was afraid there wouldn't be enough.
    Weird!

    Don't get me wrong...I wouldn't try to dissuade you from using this method at all. I'm just a little perplexed at my bad luck
    We did an 18-footer and had filler left over. I read all the alternative ways of filling canvas also, I almost did bite the bullet and go with epoxy on canvas but decided to go with traditional because I like traditional building so why not stay with traditional filler.


    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    Lazy Jack:

    Was the canoe stored outside? I have had problems with cracking filler with a canoe I stored outside. One side of the canoe would get warm with the sun and this likely lead to differential expansion/contraction and cracking of filler on the warm side. At least that was my thought at the time.

    Fitz.
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Canvas replacement on W/C canoe

    why yes, yes it was - upside down on horses under a silver/brown polytarp on a porch out in the sun, in the summer and winter, in New England. But it has continued to get worse sitting right side up inside a metal aircraft hangar.

    If others are filling 17 and 18 foot canoes with under a gallon of filler, I will assume I applied too much or that my canvas was heavier than most others have been using.

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