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Thread: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

  1. #1
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    Default Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I take anything written in the article with a grain of salt, the it says the keel ripped off the hull. If that happened by hitting something or running aground, there had to already be compromised components of the hull and keel, correct? Wonder if they had a survey? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oat-sinks.html

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...


    I wish they could have succeeded, precious few young people trying this anymore.
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 02-10-2018 at 12:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I am glad they and the pug survived and are no longer a moving menace to navigation. Their boat remains a problem.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Navigating at night in an unfamiliar place with out-of-date charts. What could possibly go wrong?

    What could they have hit that'd tear off a keel (unless the keel was ready to drop...)? It's sand/mud just about everywhere. Something doesn't add up IMO.

    ETA:

    It was about 8:45 p.m. when they sailed into a new port, navigating a channel they had never sailed before, in the dark, fog rolling in.


    Broadwell steered while Walsh stood at the bow, lighting their path with a spotlight, trying to figure out the navigational buoys. But the red and green buoys seemed out of place, they said, and the shoal wasn’t where their 2016-17 navigational charts said it should be. Had Hurricane Irma altered the channel?
    http://www.tampabay.com/sold-everyth...-sank-next-day
    Last edited by Garret; 02-10-2018 at 02:21 PM.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Their charts were ONE year old!
    Unless that is even more wrong with the reporting in the article. The only thing we know fer sher is the author does not know whats doin. We all know how easy it is to loose a boat.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Reminds a bit of when we were sailing from Tasmania up to South Australia a couple of years ago now. Almost home, wind is blowing up a bit fierce, maybe 25, and it's close to dark. We don't get twighlight here, it goes from day, to dusk, to dark, pretty quick. So a boat wife comes on the VHF, asking if anyone can help them with navigating into Pondolowie Bay. Now Pondie is a pretty wild place, big waves, narrow, narrow entrance, random rocks, not well marked. You only get one chance. And they are looking for guidance on the VHF? Only advice I could give was to stand off.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Their charts were ONE year old!
    Unless that is even more wrong with the reporting in the article. The only thing we know fer sher is the author does not know whats doin. We all know how easy it is to loose a boat.
    Most places, I'd agree 100% & have sailed with charts older than that. Thing is, the west coast of Fla changes dramatically. One big storm can move a sandbar 100 ft (& Hurricane Irma had been through since the charts were produced). I went out from just south of Port Charlotte on a Thursday afternoon & came back Sunday morning. The channel back into the marina had moved about 10 ft. Yes, there'd been a storm, but not a big one.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I suspect many inaccuracies in the story however somethings ring true. A boat in poor condition operated at night by two people with no knowledge of sailing. I watched charter boats go aground every weekend in front of my house because the operators never looked at the chart or couldn't read one. It's like channel markers don't mean anything.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I just thought that a keel was designed to stay on the hull, even if the boat grounded at full speed. Gouge a big chunk out maybe, but stay attached. This failure is most likely due to deterioration of the boat over time, correct? Also, I am not one to rejoice in other's suffering, even if it was self inflicted. Hope they get a second chance with better guidance.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    A keel breaking off , if that is what happened, is likely from bad bolts, maybe previously "wagged" or corroded.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I once worked on a Columbia that the ballast keel fell off because the bolts had corroded and broke off. So it does happen.

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    Here's another story about them. $10k seems like awful lot for an almost 50 year old boat that size.
    https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%...c8L1J-2R3g&s=1

    Ken



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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Most places, I'd agree 100% & have sailed with charts older than that. Thing is, the west coast of Fla changes dramatically. One big storm can move a sandbar 100 ft (& Hurricane Irma had been through since the charts were produced). I went out from just south of Port Charlotte on a Thursday afternoon & came back Sunday morning. The channel back into the marina had moved about 10 ft. Yes, there'd been a storm, but not a big one.
    The Humber is very similar, if not worse.
    From the Port authority's web site:
    SHOALS

    There are many shoal areas throughout the Humber Estuary which can cause a grounding danger for the unwary mariner. It is advisable for pleasure craft to have up-to-date charts, particularly when navigating above Hull. Channels in the Hessle Sand area, as well as those on the Upper Humber, Trent and Ouse can be subject to rapid changes, necessitating regular surveys by ABP's Hydrographic Section. Should your vessel go aground, you are required to notify VTS Humber who will, in turn, inform the Coastguard.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Sea Tow arrived about an hour later, and just in time. The Lagniappe was sinking in about 9-feet of water and about to roll over. It was too shallow for the tow boat to approach and get them off the sailboat

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Sea Tow arrived about an hour later, and just in time. The Lagniappe was sinking in about 9-feet of water and about to roll over. It was too shallow for the tow boat to approach and get them off the sailboat
    I noticed that as well. SeaTow boats draw 9 ft? Not any I've seen.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    More holes in the story/reporting than the boat.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    More holes in the story/reporting than the boat.
    Which is a bit odd. The link I posted above is a fairly local paper (within 100 miles) & well used to reporting boat accidents - though more commonly power boats running into jetties & the like I'm sure.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gentleman Sawyer View Post
    Here's another story about them. $10k seems like awful lot for an almost 50 year old boat that size.

    Ken



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    The boat was 5k. They spent another 5k on it........but it does not sound like the important stuff was looked at.

    The comment about entering a strange port at night is rather odd. I did it all the time when i was cruising, what does everyone else do, only travel to places they can reach during daylight hours?.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I wrecked my first boat , age 22, while trying , and failing , to heave to .( The boat resumed forward movement and hit the island a few hours later while i was asleep).
    I did not know squat about sailing .I was told "never enter a harbor at night".
    Never say never.
    Maybe this is why I have a bit of empathy for these two.
    I helped a young fellow out a few years ago with his 32 footer he had just bought. Fiddled with his self steering, got his diesel running, lent him a storm jib, sw radio, a few other things . He singlehanded it from Grenada to Newport. Today he is pro Captain of a million dollar 50 footer.
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 02-11-2018 at 10:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Yeah, i heard that too. But in the modern day of nav lights, bouyage, charts and pilot books and your own pilot plan, i cant say its a "never" situation unless there is absolute zero information and lights/bouys , that would be somewhat reckless.
    Sounds like they might have been unlucky with the channel shifting, but having said that, perhaps they are lucky the keel came off where it did, and not between the mainland and the Islands.......
    I have put off entering port due to sea conditions, bar conditions, but apart from getting dark, i dont see why they should not have attempted it.
    Anyone know how those boats were built, iron ballast with steel bolts?

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I respect the suggestion that one not enter an unfamiliar harbor at night, with exceptions.
    If I had never been in my home harbor, Mount Sinai, I would not enter at night. It is small, shallow, lightly marked, crowded with moorings. In spite of traffic, I would enter New York Harbor at night for the first time. It is very large, with a long straight channel with commercial markings and ranges. I have practiced this up and down the coat with success. I might also enter if the weather were expected to deteriorate, or other reasons that would make a night entry better than waiting.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    If one's total experience sailing is a trip from Alabama to Florida with someone else in charge (even if a good teacher), entering an unfamiliar harbor at night is a risky venture. In the articles they mention that the nav aid lights "didn't look right". A sailor with more experience would know to stop, go back & then retry when the aids are fully understood.

    I certainly feel for these folks, but also wonder about what they've been told & about the condition of the boat - particularly the keelbolts.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    This incident is actually easy to understand. Two novices boaters purchased a 50 year old boat that wasn't seaworthy. Due to their inexperience and lack of knowledge ran aground damaging the weak boat and it sank.

    The story says they had to jump in the water, but in the picture there is a floating dink tied up to the wreck. None of the written facts add up but the event is obvious.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I might take my chances in the sea over a walker bay.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I might take my chances in the sea over a walker bay.
    Thats harsh...even in shark infested waters?

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    This was a terribly written article. They pay people for this kind of thing?

    Mickey Lake
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I quite like the shape of those walker bay dinghies, look like they'd row ok. Better for skidding up the coral and oysters than most I would have thought.
    As for the rest, roll eyes.
    I know! They had an English nav book and didn't realise the buoys were in backwards... gotta be.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    When the channel markers keep changing from red to green and back again, you are probably seeing traffic lights on shore.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    I'm sort of serious , plenty of newbie navigators ( and a few experienced) have about faced their nav buoyage over the years. What was that famous WW2 disaster when that happened to a troop ship in the pacific?
    Mixed the buoys up, cut the corner , run up on the sandbank. Google earth hints its the sort of passage you might want to line up from a long way out. Then they've rolled and yawed on the keel on the groundswell for an undetermined amount of time ( reading between the quote lines) until the 1969 keelbolts have said 'no more'.
    Ah well, they're safe .

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Funny story, when we arrived in Vanua Balavu last year we were nervous( as coral newbies ourselves), the entry through the pass seemed quite fraught with danger as you had to line up the leads about a mile out and stay on that track in what looked like wide open water. Of course it wasn't wide open at all, with large coral patches lurking. Then a hard right inside the fringing reef and weave down to the local village another few miles . So apart from the first leads in through the outer reef that was all unmarked ,well, apart from rusted stakes where marks used to be.
    We left there for a month and when we came back the Fijian gummint had been and reinstated all the marks, we think in preperation for it becoming an entry port Island.
    Their and our system , like most of the world, is based on port entry as opposed to leaving, so we have starboard hand marks on the starboard side entering.
    So it was a bit perplexing to see the reefs marked the opposite way down to the village. In the end the consensus amongst the cruisers was that their method was simply to ring the island clockwise, so when rounding the other way as we were, it seemed wrong.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    In one of the photos in one of the articles, you can SEE a red marker

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Yeah , but we don't know where the rest are and where the channel is relative to that mark. Might be out of shot to the left, or maybe he should be further to the right.. I'm going to go on a limb and say that where he is ,is not deep.

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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    In one of the photos in one of the articles, you can SEE a red marker
    Probably what they hit.

    Now, I understand they are fundraising for another shot at a liveaboard/ cruising lifestyle.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Yeah , but we don't know where the rest are and where the channel is relative to that mark. Might be out of shot to the left, or maybe he should be further to the right.. I'm going to go on a limb and say that where he is ,is not deep.
    Here's a photo showing both buoys. Navionics shows the channel between them dredged 5' x 150'

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Inexpensive 50 year old boat and neophytes...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gentleman Sawyer View Post
    Here's a photo showing both buoys. Navionics shows the channel between them dredged 5' x 150'

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
    The boat sure is out of the channel in that pic!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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