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Thread: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

  1. #1
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    Default I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Good evening gentlemen

    I'd like to be able to haul my sea pearl up on the beach. Toward this, I have ordered a nice pair of beach rollers from Duckworks. The next step is to figure a way to move about 700-1000 lbs of boat up a gentle sandy slope (Texas and Florida Gulf coast). Flat bottom, large canoe type boat. Good meaty bow eye.

    I was toying with the idea of a winch on the deck but that doesn't feel right. So maybe a block and tackle? Take the anchor up on the beach and hook up a line and haul away? Would 1000lbs be the right working load limit or do I need more to overcome friction and get up on the rollers. Any brands you would recommend and what mechanical advantage should I be looking for?

    Or am I on the wrong track altogether? Any thoughts appreciated.

    Thanks

    Tom

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Get another roller. 2 under the boat and one being taken from the back to the front at any given time.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Inflate the rollers hard.

    A boat trailer type winch should pull her up a line to an anchor embedded in the sand .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  4. #4
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    How about some pictures of the site from various vantage points.

    I moved a big log once where I had to run a line through a snatch block and pull from the side with my truck. Maybe that opens some possibilities.

    Or this, like they do in Newfoundland...





    Or this...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFDGGht3CQU

    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 02-10-2018 at 02:17 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?


  6. #6
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Or how about a wooden ships wheel operated winch permanently mounted on the deck, a functional ornamental conversation piece.

    Like this...


    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 02-10-2018 at 03:19 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Another suggestion ....it looks useful.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #8
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Only 2 rollers?
    You will need 3 or 4 .
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    I have moved boats that size and heftier with two rollers - really big fenders and not as good as the Duckworks units - and it's not as easy as with three. I thought about putting an anchor down to attach a block and tackle but unless the beach is very steep it's not needed. You're around the boat moving things and at least where I was pulling the boat - in Oregon over 300 yards fairly flat beach, Cape Cod more like 100 feet slightly steeper, both those sand, and shingle maybe 100 feet random places - setting up any sort of tackle was more work than just pulling.

    So, get a third roller.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Block and tackle would have the power, I'd use block capable of 500 lbs or so. The problem is they don't work well filled with sand and debris. Unless you can keep the line up out of contact with the sand they will self destruct in short order.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    It will only give you a 2:1 advantage, but you can put the block at the bow eye, stand by the buried anchor and pull. That will keep the block above the sand, though you might pick up some from the line. I find it much easier pulling up a beach by standing at the top and pulling than trying to pull walking up with your feet digging in.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    i watched them do this with all the boats one morning in italy..

    block mounted on a removable post in the town square, one man tailing on a powered capstan winch


  13. #13
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    I love Cinque Terre.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    What kind of distance do you have to go? To swap rollers around you'll need to be down at the boat. And you might not want to clean a lot of sandy line. So an anchor with a pennant on it and the tackle on the end of the pennant if you need more than a 2 x1. If a 2x1 will do then hang the block from the bow eye and pull from it, block stays pretty clean. If i was running a multi part tackle with a pennant the tackle doesn't need to be much longer when stretched out than 10' as you'll be swapping rollers every 10 feet.
    Ben Fuller
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    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  15. #15
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Pennant? Not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    What's your gameplan for launch? Gravity and guts?
    Main Concept Sea Pearl? Nominally 600+ lbs., 21' long, 5.5' wide?
    High-flotation tires on a bracket would make life easier. If canoe-type hull is narrow and pointy on both ends, a mid-ship pair would do the job. Powering them instead of a winch would let you be autonomous. They would present a stowage challenge underway, though. The right wheels (plastic, flexible) could double as hull flotation, stowed in a cubby at each end or under-seat. Power could come from battery-powered hand tools, which are quite powerful, light (even with extra batteries) and quickly rechargeable. But this setup would weight more than just a winch.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Reading thru all of this I still think you need a ship's wheel mounted on the deck, or directly to the seaward wall of the dwelling.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    If its a sandy beach and your pulling it out solo, then a plywood skid/sled and a Tirfor
    http://www.tractel.com/en/series.php?id_serie=47
    We used to regularly move much bigger boats with a similar system.
    At a different yard we launched a 40' cruising cat using a Tirfor, dragging it around a 1/4mile on rollers ( but you certainly need more the a couple) to the slip.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Back to contemplating the OP. First I'll restate the problem in slightly different terms. This will reveal any failure of understanding on my part.

    First the boat. 700#-1,000# is quite a range. Can you lift the bow by yourself?

    Even at the low end, if you want to keep your bottom for the whole season, you cannot skid the boat. I think you're on the right track with rollers, just get another one or two.

    Sounds like you're going cruising and you note gentle sand slope. So whatever you use must travel with the boat. The rollers properly stowed take up valuable space but at least they are positive floatation. So there's a plus.

    Your tidal range in most of that area is only a half a foot, if I recall my geography rightly. Some bays and entraces have a geography making a locally greater range. If you're beach camping, this small tide range means that you don't need to get the boat that far up to escape wave action.

    My old dory weighed 300# or so with gear removed and that was about the top end of what I could handle putting the bow on the beach, lifting while kicking a roller under, dragging up till that first roller was almost amid ships before inserting the second roller under the bow and so on up the beach. The more rollers the better for spreading the load and not fighting the sand or shingle too much. I think four is a practical minimum. Three is the absolute minimum if y ou don't want to do a lot of heavy lifting.

    A significantly heavier boat will require some sort of tackle. Small boat - unlikely to have more than 100' of anchor rode but that's enough. Set the hook about 90' up the beach and have a block on you boat's bow eye with a bit in hand. If you can't lift the bow onto a roller, you can float it on the first roller controlling the bow with one hand and pulling up hand near the block. This is 2:1 and should be sufficient. Depending on the slope, you might get her far enough up without resetting the hook.

    I would not leave the rollers under the boat for more than a short while. They probably won't deflate but they will sink into the sand and be hard to start the boat back down. Even if you can lift one end of the boat, getting the rollers out and then back in on dry ground is a pain. If you can't lift one end of the boat, have a bit of plank (wide enough to not sink in the sand) you can ram under the boat and, using as a lever, shift the boat onto or off a roller. If the boat's really 1000# and you're lifting one end with an 8' plank, you've got about 170# to lift so don't plan on using an oar.

    G'luck

  20. #20
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Thanks everyone. Lots of good info.

    To answer couple of questions.
    I'm not getting any younger so not lifting would be strongly preferred. Not much grunt left.
    The weight is a guess. I think she weighs 6-700 empty, plus gear etc. If I can move her without unloading all the better.
    Hauling her up will be an occasional thing. I'd like to have the option to get her out of the surf. and back in the water. E.g. for the everglades challenge. I have a graphite bottom on her that has performed remarkably well and is easy to touch up.
    She carries two rollers well on the gunnels. Looks sporty. I'm sure I can find room for a third/ fourth. Some use pvc successfully.
    I like the idea of attaching the block to the bow eye for 2:1. I suppose I could go to a fiddle for more advantage. I'm trying to avoid a come along. Too hard to deal with esp in a sandy environment.

    I suppose I should get a no stretch line? It seems a little risky to use the nylon anchor line.

    Thanks again!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    I see no problem with a normal three strand nylon anchor rode. You're not going to break it.

    It would be slow but if you splice a block on the top end of the rode (reeving it through the block that will shackle to your bow eye first) and have an extra ten or twenty feet of line, you could then clap that spare line up twords the anchor, pass the end through the block on the end of the rode, and now you have 4:1. Pull it home and reposition the rig closer to the anchor. Attach this line to the anchor rode with either a four turn tautline hitch or a prussic.

    G'luck

  22. #22
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    I see no problem with a normal three strand nylon anchor rode. You're not going to break it.

    It would be slow but if you splice a block on the top end of the rode (reeving it through the block that will shackle to your bow eye first) and have an extra ten or twenty feet of line, you could then clap that spare line up twords the anchor, pass the end through the block on the end of the rode, and now you have 4:1. Pull it home and reposition the rig closer to the anchor. Attach this line to the anchor rode with either a four turn tautline hitch or a prussic.

    G'luck
    Excellent. Thanks!

    I worry about being on the receiving end is any of it fails. I was up on a ladder pulling some nylon mason' twine tight and the nail pulled out. Lots of energy. The nail came straight at me trailing the line. Buried itself up to the head in my arm. Pretty lucky all things considered.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    I spent a lot of time hauling my 200 pound hull up a gently sloped gravel beach on rollers (big bumpers) using the 2:1 method described. I tied to a tree, ran the line thru a block on the bow eye and hauled on the bitter end. I'm pretty big and still pretty strong but it was still a hard piece of work. I don't think 2:1 would be even close to enough of an advantage for a 600 pound load, and it's surprising how much resistance accumulates as one adds blocks to achieve a better advantage. I think you'd better plan on using a comealong or power winch of some sort.

    As for getting the bow onto the first roller, I found it easiest to lift and swing the hull sideways onto a well placed roller. When bumping it under the lifted bow it would often cant.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    If you are willing to spend a few dollars you could mount an electric capstan on the fore deck. Then you can pull in as much line as you can put out. For Example: Powerwinch Capstan*or Maxwell Anchormax,*many other mfg's to chose from.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: I need a winch, a block and tackle, or some such thing?

    Some hardware: https://wheeleez.com

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