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Thread: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

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    Default Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Just announced today. Claims national security concerns.
    What a gutless coward. No morals. No ethics. Devoid of any human decency.
    He is a man running scared because he knows the truth is catching up to him.
    He will be brought down by the decent law abiding citizens of this great country.
    Have I mentioned how much I despise this 'man'?
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    What a pussy. Lol.

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    [IMc - Here's the story.]

    By KATHRYN WATSON CBS NEWS February 9, 2018, 7:58 PM

    Trump will not declassify Democrats' current memo, White House says

    Last Updated Feb 9, 2018 8:51 PM EST

    President Trump will not declassify the memo from Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee as it currently is written, the White House announced in a letter Friday night. The Democrats' memo is a rebuttal to the GOP memo about surveillance of a former Trump campaign official.

    "Although the president is inclined to declassify the Feb. 5th memorandum, because the memorandum contains numerous properly classified and especially sensitive passages, he is unable to do so at this time," the letter from White House counsel Don McGahn to Devin Nunes, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, reads.

    The White House letter said Justice Department officials will be available to help "should the committee wish to revise the February 5th memorandum to mitigate the risks identified by the department."

    Democrats had concerns with the GOP memo over sensitive information as well, but the president declassified that. Some Republicans have claimed the Democratic memo involved more substantial information about law enforcement sources and methods.

    At the White House's request, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and FBI Director Christopher Wray also sent a letter to the White House identifying the areas of concern in the Democratic memo.

    Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the committee, released this statement on Twitter:

    On Friday, the president met with FBI Director Christopher Wray, the principal associate deputy attorney general and the White House counsel's office to discuss the Democratic memo, according to the White House. The president was given five days to oppose the release of the Democratic memo, after the House Intelligence Committee voted to release it earlier this week.

    Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee had initially opposed the release of the Democratic memo, even as they voted to release the Republican-crafted memo.

    But not all Republicans are pleased with the president's most recent decision.

    Rep. Justin Amash, R-Michigan, said Friday night he has read both memos, and the Democratic memo, like the GOP memo, does not endanger national security and should be released.

    Jamil Jaffer, former chief counsel to the House Intelligence Committee and White House legal counsel to former President George W. Bush, called the president's failure declassify the Democratic memo a "massive strategic miscalculation."

    "The White House's failure to declassify the House Intelligence Committee minority memo — particularly in the face of unanimous bipartisan vote by the committee — represents a massive strategic miscalculation," he said in a statement. "The decision to reject the committee's request simply plays into the partisan narrative about the Nunes memo and deprives the American public of the benefit of both sides of a highly politicized debate. Even worse, this unforced error undermines the president's own ability to make the case about alleged failures in the intelligence collection process and, as such, is yet another example of this White House being its own worst enemy."

    The four-page GOP memo, released last week, argues that FBI surveillance of former Trump campaign official Carter Page was authorized in part because of claims in the unverified Trump dossier authored by former British intelligence agent Christopher Steele. The memo claims that FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe testified before the House Intelligence Committee in December 2017 that no surveillance warrant would have been sought without the Steele dossier information. But there is no direct quote from McCabe's (behind-closed-doors) testimony about the use of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

    Mr. Trump claimed that memo "totally vindicates 'Trump,'" even though some Republicans like Rep. Trey Gowdy, the only Republican on the House Intelligence Committee to have actually seen the FISA applications, said the memo has nothing to do with the Russia probe.

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Putting aside pure partisanship as a motive, could this be indicative of a major difference between the Republican and Democrat memos? The Republican memos is based primarily on conjecture, incomplete data and unfounded conclusions. Heck, most of the Republicans never even saw or examined the actual intelligence before the memo was written. Based on the comments above, it appears that the Democrat memo is based on actual intelligence and actual information. That's why there's little reason for anyone to be concerned about the Republican memo revealing secret or sensitive information because it has very little basis in actual information while there is apparently significant concerns about the Democrat memo which include actual substantial information.

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    I wouldn't wipe my ass with the shreds of his character.

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    I think it's perfect. Trump set himself up with Nunes' memo and now is a victim of his own plan. Not releasing the democrat's memo makes a simple headline that even people with their head in the sand will hear about and judge him poorly for. For once democrat's have a simple message of Trump's asshattery instead of playing defense with rebuttals and fact checking. Well played.

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    I think most Americans, other than his blind supporters, will see this as unfair. Probably more effective than it being released.

    Can't predict the future, but if I were in charge of the Democratic side of this, I'd argue the redaction's required would render this memo as empty, or as meaningless, as the Nunes memo.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    I have to disagree that this will hurt Trump with anyone other than those who already don't like him. I can hear it now:

    He's being careful about national security

    He's making sure not to expose classified info

    He's protecting our country but not leaking sensitive info.

    Those Democrats just want to hurt our country

    etc. etc. ad nauseum.

    We should never misunderestimate the ability of some people to justify pure partisanship.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    I wouldn't wipe my ass with the shreds of his character.
    You guys really are in Fascist territory now. Crap.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I have to disagree that this will hurt Trump with anyone other than those who already don't like him. I can hear it now:

    He's being careful about national security

    He's making sure not to expose classified info

    He's protecting our country but not leaking sensitive info.

    Those Democrats just want to hurt our country

    etc. etc. ad nauseum.

    We should never misunderestimate the ability of some people to justify pure partisanship.
    In which case, evil will triumph over good. Depressing.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
    I think it's perfect. Trump set himself up with Nunes' memo and now is a victim of his own plan. Not releasing the democrat's memo makes a simple headline that even people with their head in the sand will hear about and judge him poorly for. For once democrat's have a simple message of Trump's asshattery instead of playing defense with rebuttals and fact checking. Well played.
    For Trumpistas:


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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    David G
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Am I right in saying that, if Trump won't release it then it can be recalled to a full congressional assembly for a vote?
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by isla View Post
    Am I right in saying that, if Trump won't release it then it can be recalled to a full congressional assembly for a vote?
    Yes, you are right. It won’t likely be approved for release until the parts the Justice Department has flagged have been removed. Nunes did this to his memo prior to sending it to the White House. Rich, among others, has not been paying attention. The Nunes/Gowdy memo has been completely corroborated by the Grassley/Graham memo, that refers Christopher Steele for criminal investigation. The one contention the dimocrats have with the memos is to whether or not the fact that Steele was working for the Clinton campaign is revealed in the FISC application. In a footnote, it is supposedly said that his employer may have a slight political leaning, without naming Clinton or the DNC.

    The Nunes/Gowdy memo was written with the intention of being released to the public. The dimocrat memo was written to be played politically. As it is.

    The Grassley/Graham letter:
    https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo...0Referral).pdf

    A better explanation:
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/by...rticle/2648340
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Yes, you are right. It won’t likely be approved for release until the parts the Justice Department has flagged have been removed. Nunes did this to his memo prior to sending it to the White House. Rich, among others, has not been paying attention. The Nunes/Gowdy memo has been completely corroborated by the Grassley/Graham memo, that refers Christopher Steele for criminal investigation. The one contention the dimocrats have with the memos is to whether or not the fact that Steele was working for the Clinton campaign is revealed in the FISC application. In a footnote, it is supposedly said that his employer may have a slight political leaning, without naming Clinton or the DNC.

    The Nunes/Gowdy memo was written with the intention of being released to the public. The dimocrat memo was written to be played politically. As it is.

    The Grassley/Graham letter:
    https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo...0Referral).pdf

    A better explanation:
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/by...rticle/2648340
    Both links are just attempts at diversion. The first is a total joke and the second just a GOP opinion piece. It's my belief that Schiff ran his memo past the FBI and DOJ before the vote in the Intelligence Committee. Otherwise, why would all the Reps on the committee vote for it? If they had no problem, why would Trump?
    No, this is just Trump running scared. Period.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Both links are just attempts at diversion. The first is a total joke and the second just a GOP opinion piece. It's my belief that Schiff ran his memo past the FBI and DOJ before the vote in the Intelligence Committee. Otherwise, why would all the Reps on the committee vote for it? If they had no problem, why would Trump?
    No, this is just Trump running scared. Period.
    The first is a joke? It’s a criminal referral: you have a strange sense of humor.
    Running scared? Of what? There’s been no mention of him in any of them.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    So exactly why is your Stable Genius chickening out of releasing the memo?

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    The first is a joke? It’s a criminal referral: you have a strange sense of humor.
    Running scared? Of what? There’s been no mention of him in any of them.
    He knows because he knows he's guilty of the allocations. We will be the third to know after Mueller mdh. Why is he being an obstructionist if he had nothing to hide? Waiting for your response here but, not expecting one.
    Last edited by S.V. Airlie; 02-10-2018 at 08:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    SV: allegations presumably?

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    SV: allegations presumably?
    That'll work.

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    I think these memos won't matter.

    The Nunes memo lasted one day with President Trump making a silly claim about total vindication which Republicans on the hill batted down.

    The Schiff memo was always doomed to be "oh yeah?" status anyway, and delays and redactions won't change that.

    The Grassley Graham "criminal referral" is a request for an investigation into something that's already being investigated.

    The only thing which will matter is whether Mueller will be allowed to continue, and what indictments he delivers.

    One wonders: when does the penny drop from Mueller's office?

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    So exactly why is your Stable Genius chickening out of releasing the memo?
    If he released it, the dims would be charging that he’d exposed sources and methods.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I think these memos won't matter.

    The Nunes memo lasted one day with President Trump making a silly claim about total vindication which Republicans on the hill batted down.

    The Schiff memo was always doomed to be "oh yeah?" status anyway, and delays and redactions won't change that.

    The Grassley Graham "criminal referral" is a request for an investigation into something that's already being investigated.

    The only thing which will matter is whether Mueller will be allowed to continue, and what indictments he delivers.

    One wonders: when does the penny drop from Mueller's office?
    Probably won’t make much noise after the dime drops from the IG’s office.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    If he released it, the dims would be charging that he’d exposed sources and methods.
    I doubt that actually, why would the dems say that about their own memo? Sounds pretty stupid don't you think? Please try again mdh!

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
    I think it's perfect. Trump set himself up with Nunes' memo and now is a victim of his own plan. Not releasing the democrat's memo makes a simple headline that even people with their head in the sand will hear about and judge him poorly for. For once democrat's have a simple message of Trump's asshattery instead of playing defense with rebuttals and fact checking. Well played.
    I agree.

    1. Virtue is it's own reward. In this case, the virtue is supporting law enforcement, in the sense of not compromising sources, or discouraging potential sources. Law enforcement depends on intelligence, in every sense; and law enforcement extends to espionage and other activities of foreign powers. It would be nice if we were supporting our own laws on the principles from which they were derived, i.e. the right of self-government and universal human rights, but if that if somehow insufficient, let's support them based on self-interest.

    2. If you wrestle with the pig, you both get dirty, etc etc. F the pigs and the horse they rode in on. These people have an insatiable psychological need which you cannot appeal to, let alone satisfy, with any amount of reason.

    3. The Republicans have made their bed, now let them sleep in it. Don't be in a rush to provide them a better bed, which, in this case, would be attempting to lure them back to the old bed of the bedrock principles of the republic. They've already rejected them. Let them antagonize the intelligence agencies, and we'll see what happens.

    The Democrats have done all that might be expected and more. Enough. The Republicans will do what they want; in the long run you can't make them do right. You can only make them wish they had.
    Last edited by Osborne Russell; 02-10-2018 at 09:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Probably won’t make much noise after the dime drops from the IG’s office.
    Always looking for that bail-out. What the heck, national security is yours to wager . . . except it's mine, too.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    If he released it, the dims would be charging that he’d exposed sources and methods.
    He doesn't believe that at all as you well know. He doesn't care what the dims charge, as you well know, and have often said. He over-rode the same objections with respect to the Republican memo.

    Have you at long last no decency at all? No self-respect? No shame? No conscience?
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    He doesn't believe that at all as you well know. He doesn't care what the dims charge, as you well know, and have often said. He over-rode the same objections with respect to the Republican memo.

    Have you at long last no decency at all? No self-respect? No shame? No conscience?
    You must have missed the part where Nunes removed the sources and methods part the agencies objected to.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    You must have missed the part where Nunes removed the sources and methods part the agencies objected to.
    Yup, the world did, you're the only one who didn't miss it! Strange! And Shiff definitely passed it through the DOJ and FBI before he sent it on to der Furhur!

    By the way, Trump said he was going to release the Nutjob's memo before he even saw it. Guess you missed that didn't you?How about that cracker mdh? Deny that or post an excuse. Can't wait what BS you'll put in that post.

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Then there’s the FISA judges reprimand of the Obama administration:

    http://investmentwatchblog.com/it-is...m-keeps-quiet/
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Beccaro, he’s a journalist, a political analyst?

    hahahaha

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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    You must have missed the part where Nunes removed the sources and methods part the agencies objected to.
    Nunes removed nothing; Trump released it all.

    Trump ordered the GOP memo, which critics say was compiled in a way to discredit the Justice Department’s special counsel investigation, released with not a single letter blacked out.

    https://www.rollcall.com/news/politi...l-memo-release
    From the letter from White House Counsel Donald McGahn which accompanies Trump's order releasing the memo:


    Accordingly, he [Trump] has directed lawyers and national security staff to assess the declassification request, consistent with established standards governing the handling of classified information, including those under Section 3.1(d) of Executive Order 13526. Those standards permit declassification when the public interest in disclosure outweighs any need to protect the information. The White House review process also included input from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Justice. Consistent with this review and these standards, the President has determined that declassification of the Memorandum is Appropriate.
    This letter from Donald F. McGahn II, the White House counsel, says that the administration consulted with the office of Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence, and the Justice Department.

    Notably, Mr. McGahn does not say either institution concurred that it was a good idea to make the memo public. In recent days, the F.B.I. has publicly expressed “grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo’s accuracy,” while Mr. Coats’s office has declined to comment.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...annotated.html
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Nunes removed nothing; Trump released it all.
    I don’t know if you never knew or forgot. The first statement is false, the second one is true. Nunes edited the memo to fix a few grammatical errors and a couple of items the FBI and dimocrats objected to releasing. Then he sent the memo to the President, who declassified it, as it was sent to him.

    “A spokemsan for the Intelligence Committee's GOP majority pushed back on Schiff's letter, calling Monday's vote "absolutely procedurally sound" and dismissing the changes as "minor edits ... including grammatical fixes and two edits requested by the FBI" and committee Democrats.”

    http://m.theweek.com/speedreads/7523...nt-white-house
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    Default Re: Trump refuses to release Dems reply to Nunes memo

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    ..Nunes edited the memo to fix a few grammatical errors and a couple of items the FBI and dimocrats objected to releasing.. .
    That sounded like a crock to me when I first heard it, and it still sounds like a crock. Why?

    Because Trey Gowdy, who actually wrote the 'Nunes' memo, is an attorney and former federal prosecutor. All the committee members are college graduates, and some also have legal expertise and qualifications. These guys know how even a missing comma can prejudice a legal case. So they all read the memo and voted to send it to the president, then at the last minute Nunes discovered 'grammatical errors' that he thought needed correcting? Pull the other one.

    Schiff's account, that Nunes made material changes to the text of the memo, and didn't submit the changes to the committee for further approval, is far more credible. Surely, any changes requested by the FBI and/or the minority, and subsequently applied to the memo, should have been presented to the committee as a final version for their approval?
    Somewhere between Murder and Suicide, there is a place called Merseyside.

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