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Thread: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

  1. #1
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    Default LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    The "forever" guarantee is gone. Seems too many people abused it (I've heard stories for years - so this is not sudden I'm thinking). The end of an era.

    Here's an email I received this morning:

    A Letter to Our Customers

    Since 1912, our mission has been to sell high-quality products that inspire and enable people to enjoy the outdoors. Our commitment to customer service has earned us your trust and respect, as has our guarantee, which ensures that we stand behind everything we sell.

    Increasingly, a small, but growing number of customers has been interpreting our guarantee well beyond its original intent. Some view it as a lifetime product replacement program, expecting refunds for heavily worn products used over many years. Others seek refunds for products that have been purchased through third parties, such as at yard sales.

    Based on these experiences, we have updated our policy. Customers will have one year after purchasing an item to return it, accompanied by proof of purchase. After one year, we will work with our customers to reach a fair solution if a product is defective in any way.

    This update adds clarity to our policy and will only affect a small percentage of returns. It will also ensure we can continue to honor one of the best guarantees in retail, with no impact for the vast majority of our customers. To learn more, please view our full return policy at llbean.com.

    L.L.Bean has stood for quality, service, trust, and getting people outdoors ever since my great-grandfather founded our company over 100 years ago - and that will never change. Thank you for being a loyal customer and we look forward to continuing to inspire and enable you to Be an Outsider.

    Sincerely,


    Shawn O. Gorman
    Executive Chairman
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  2. #2
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Can't blame them. Many people simply suck.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Have a cousin that has been working at Bean for 20+ years, she said one of the big issues was people picking up old Bean boots at tag/yard sales, as Gorman say's, then bringing them in for a new pair, like anything, abuse it and lose it.

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    I've bought some cloths from them a couple of times within the last year. There quality is still fantastic IMO.
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    After learning a bit about Linda Bean's political leanings (contributions) and her attempt to monopolize the Maine lobster industry, including trying to influence the town meeting, I'm done with them. 99% of the stuff comes from China anyway.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    L L Bean suddenly discovers that customers take advantage of a 'Lifetime" guarantee after 108 years!!? Hmmm?
    Slow learners...or... what?
    And, who, exactly, forced them to replace obviously worn-out items?...Hmmm!
    It won't pass my, low threshold, smell test. Maybe it's me.

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    I have a friend who bought an LL Bean shirt ten years ago and just returned it for a new one because the collar was a little frayed. They sent him a new shirt.
    He also bought a Toyota Tacoma pickup truck 14 years ago and had the chassis rust-proofed with a 15 year warrantee. Chassis rusted a few months ago and Toyota made good. They took the whole truck apart and rebuilt it on top of a new chassis. It didn't cost him a dime.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by jackster View Post
    L L Bean suddenly discovers that customers take advantage of a 'Lifetime" guarantee after 108 years!!? Hmmm?
    Slow learners...or... what?
    And, who, exactly, forced them to replace obviously worn-out items?...Hmmm!
    It won't pass my, low threshold, smell test. Maybe it's me.
    Wow. Cynical, eh? Linda Bean's politics & business practices aside, I have found the store to be incredible when it comes to customer service. First off, the guarantee used to be "If it ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it for replacement or refund" (that may not be the exact words - but very close) - so they were required by law to replace an item if the customer wanted it replaced.

    The reality is that their guarantee worked just fine for many, many years. It's only in the last 20 or so that enough people abused it to cause problems. An employee I know told me about a # of people who would buy a complete summer wardrobe (several thousand dollars worth) in the spring and then return every bit of it in the fall. IMO, that's plain old fraud.

    So - better get your smeller tested - it's defective.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  9. #9
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    After learning a bit about Linda Bean's political leanings (contributions) and her attempt to monopolize the Maine lobster industry, including trying to influence the town meeting, I'm done with them. 99% of the stuff comes from China anyway.
    This. I stopped buying most of their stuff years ago. Used to live in their flannel shirts and Bean boots.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I have a friend who bought an LL Bean shirt ten years ago and just returned it for a new one because the collar was a little frayed. They sent him a new shirt.
    He also bought a Toyota Tacoma pickup truck 14 years ago and had the chassis rust-proofed with a 15 year warrantee. Chassis rusted a few months ago and Toyota made good. They took the whole truck apart and rebuilt it on top of a new chassis. It didn't cost him a dime.
    Rich, not to drift the thread too far -- there was a factory recall some years back (2010 [?]) on my 2004 Tacoma pickup for frame rust-thru -
    My truck had no rust, but the dealer here in SC had done 1 complete frame replacement.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Rich, not to drift the thread too far -- there was a factory recall some years back (2010 [?]) on my 2004 Tacoma pickup for frame rust-thru -
    My truck had no rust, but the dealer here in SC had done 1 complete frame replacement.
    Yep - Toyota replaced thousands & thousands of frames @ no charge. IIRC it was due to a class action suit.

    [BTW - drift away! I have no objection to my threads being drifted - as long as the drift is interesting or informative (or a good opportunity to give someone some grief) )
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  12. #12
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Wow. Cynical, eh? Linda Bean's politics & business practices aside, I have found the store to be incredible when it comes to customer service. First off, the guarantee used to be "If it ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it for replacement or refund" (that may not be the exact words - but very close) - so they were required by law to replace an item if the customer wanted it replaced.

    The reality is that their guarantee worked just fine for many, many years. It's only in the last 20 or so that enough people abused it to cause problems. An employee I know told me about a # of people who would buy a complete summer wardrobe (several thousand dollars worth) in the spring and then return every bit of it in the fall. IMO, that's plain old fraud.

    So - better get your smeller tested - it's defective.
    Well, Garret, I thought I was being sarcastic and skeptical, with a bit of humor for spice, but we, I hope, can agree to disagree about that, given your rather rude tone.
    So you seem to be saying that all companies, by law, must honor a "...if it ever fails...replacement..." guarantee?
    That has not been my experience.
    Companies offered two basic warranties,
    Limited and "limited lifetime" Here is(was) LL Beans...
    "Or products are guaranteed to give 100% satisfaction in every way. Return anything purchased from us at any time if it proves otherwise. We do not want you to have anything from LL Bean that is not completely satisfactory."
    There are many instances reported that LL Bean decided not to replace or repair items free, with that (lifetime) warranty.
    LL Bean now blames the customer for "... interpreting our guarantee well beyond its original intent. "
    And "...expecting refunds for heavily worn products used over many years. Others seek refunds for products that have been purchased through third parties, such as at yard sales."
    A policy they had full discretion on with that old warranty

    I find that to be less than honest. I'm allowed, aren't I?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Filson stuff is better
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Filson stuff is better
    at twice or three times the price.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Filson stuff is better
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    at twice or three times the price.
    And you want to look like a poseur.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  17. #17
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by jackster View Post
    Well, Garret, I thought I was being sarcastic and skeptical, with a bit of humor for spice, but we, I hope, can agree to disagree about that, given your rather rude tone.
    So you seem to be saying that all companies, by law, must honor a "...if it ever fails...replacement..." guarantee?
    That has not been my experience.
    Companies offered two basic warranties,
    Limited and "limited lifetime" Here is(was) LL Beans...
    "Or products are guaranteed to give 100% satisfaction in every way. Return anything purchased from us at any time if it proves otherwise. We do not want you to have anything from LL Bean that is not completely satisfactory."
    There are many instances reported that LL Bean decided not to replace or repair items free, with that (lifetime) warranty.
    LL Bean now blames the customer for "... interpreting our guarantee well beyond its original intent. "
    And "...expecting refunds for heavily worn products used over many years. Others seek refunds for products that have been purchased through third parties, such as at yard sales."
    A policy they had full discretion on with that old warranty

    I find that to be less than honest. I'm allowed, aren't I?
    My apologies - I missed the sarcasm (& am sarcastic often enough myself to where I shouldn't have...).

    I was not aware of items Beans had not replaced (except the wardrobe collections I mentioned above & those only after warnings). My experience has led me to believe otherwise. For example, I had a flannel shirt in a houndstouth pattern that they'd stopped making & I went to customer service to see if they might have one in a warehouse somewhere. I took the old worn out shirt with me to show the pattern & when the woman said that she couldn't find one anywhere, she added "I'd be happy to give you a credit for a shirt of another pattern." I told her that I was expecting to buy something - as I'd worn it out over years of use. She repeated what she'd said & I said no thanks. To me, that's not a company that does not honor its warranty.

    I guess I don't see the change as dishonest, simply disappointing. I'm disappointed with the jerks who've wrecked it for the rest of us - not Beans.

    So - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - but I do apologize.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Bean has treated me very well over the thirty-odd years that I have been buying stuff from them. No hassle exchanges, perfect response to the one warranty item I returned, follow-up calls to check on delivery of mail-ordered items, third-party-address deliveries done seamlessly. All of this via international mail and money transfer. No complaints at all.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    My apologies - I missed the sarcasm (& am sarcastic often enough myself to where I shouldn't have...).

    I was not aware of items Beans had not replaced (except the wardrobe collections I mentioned above & those only after warnings). My experience has led me to believe otherwise. For example, I had a flannel shirt in a houndstouth pattern that they'd stopped making & I went to customer service to see if they might have one in a warehouse somewhere. I took the old worn out shirt with me to show the pattern & when the woman said that she couldn't find one anywhere, she added "I'd be happy to give you a credit for a shirt of another pattern." I told her that I was expecting to buy something - as I'd worn it out over years of use. She repeated what she'd said & I said no thanks. To me, that's not a company that does not honor its warranty.

    I guess I don't see the change as dishonest, simply disappointing. I'm disappointed with the jerks who've wrecked it for the rest of us - not Beans.

    So - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - but I do apologize.
    That's humans for you, I'm surprised that you are surprised.

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    And you want to look like a poseur.
    I was afraid to go there. So true. Often referred to as the lumbersexual look

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 02-09-2018 at 02:04 PM.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    That's humans for you, I'm surprised that you are surprised.
    Did I ever say I was surprised? I am disappointed though. Honor & integrity have been disappearing & now we have a president making sure they go away much faster!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  22. #22
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Cheers Garette, I agree completely that there are some who ruin it for the rest.
    A point I missed in your original post.
    I apologize!
    I do think, when reading the rest of LL Bean's statement, that they will still honor a a reasonable "limited lifetime" warranty.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by jackster View Post
    Cheers Garet, I agree completely that there are some who ruin it for the rest.
    A point I missed in your original post.
    I apologize!
    I do think, when reading the rest of LL Bean's statement, that they will still honor a a reasonable "limited lifetime" warranty.
    If we keep apologizing like this people are gonna think we're Canadians!

    I think they may well go beyond the 1 year in some cases.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    If we keep apologizing like this people are gonna think we're Canadians!

    I think they may well go beyond the 1 year in some cases.
    No, if you've got to bring your support moose on a plane, they'll think you're Canadians.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  25. #25
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    No, if you've got to bring your support moose on a plane, they'll think you're Canadians.
    Or from Winooski
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  26. #26
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by garret View Post
    or from wimooski
    ftfy.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  27. #27
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    And you want to look like a poseur.
    You and Ted do know who you are talking about right ?
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  28. #28

    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Bought something from Cabela's, L.L.Bean, and The Northface roughly at the same time 1/5/2018 , L.L.Bean was worst in customer service, I would think twice, no three times, about dealing with them. Was a customer for 40 years. They made it difficult.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by donsmarine View Post
    Bought something from Cabela's, L.L.Bean, and The Northface roughly at the same time 1/5/2018 , L.L.Bean was worst in customer service, I would think twice, no three times, about dealing with them. Was a customer for 40 years. They made it difficult.
    Wow! My experience with Beans has never been less than excellent.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  30. #30
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Yeah, $15.27/ft^2 seems a little spendy for a canvas tent but there is free shipping.

    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    Yeah, $15.27/ft^2 seems a little spendy for a canvas tent but there is free shipping.


    My personal preference - meet the "Four Pound Palace":


    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  32. #32
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    I had one of those and loved it. I was camping in Havasupai Canyon when the most incredible SCREAMING wind came howling down the canyon about midnight, flattened the tent and actually broke one of the poles. Some boy scouts in another tent almost got blown over the cliff. Spooky experience in a spectacular place.

    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    I had one of those and loved it. I was camping in Havasupai Canyon when the most incredible SCREAMING wind came howling down the canyon about midnight, flattened the tent and actually broke one of the poles. Some boy scouts in another tent almost got blown over the cliff. Spooky experience in a spectacular place.

    Well, here's hoping mine stands up. Taking a bunch of Scouts out to Philmont Scout Ranch in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains near Cimarron, NM this summer.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  34. #34
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    And you want to look like a poseur.
    It's true their pricing is steep. And it's true that people with more money than sense have discovered them.

    But, in my family, Filson has always been the gear. My dad's dad wore Filson when he worked as a sawyer in lumber mills, and as a Wobbly organizer. My dad wore Filson in the plywood mill, and a lot of the folks who worked there did as well. It's the sort of gear that is comfortable, lasts forever, and then is constructed so as to be repairable. I have bought a few key pieces over the years, when I could afford to buy that level of quality. It's a bargain in the long run, but a big ding to start.

    Nothing wrong with LL Bean gear. And I've got an Orvis 1/4-zip sweatshirt I'm quite fond of.
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  35. #35
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    Default Re: LL Bean has changed their guarantee

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    It's true their pricing is steep. And it's true that people with more money than sense have discovered them.

    But, in my family, Filson has always been the gear. My dad's dad wore Filson when he worked as a sawyer in lumber mills, and as a Wobbly organizer. My dad wore Filson in the plywood mill, and a lot of the folks who worked there did as well. It's the sort of gear that is comfortable, lasts forever, and then is constructed so as to be repairable. I have bought a few key pieces over the years, when I could afford to buy that level of quality. It's a bargain in the long run, but a big ding to start.

    Nothing wrong with LL Bean gear. And I've got an Orvis 1/4-zip sweatshirt I'm quite fond of.
    Most good gear is.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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