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Thread: Proctor mast trapeze repair

  1. #1
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    Default Proctor mast trapeze repair

    I have an old proctor mast from the 1970s. The stays seem to be in pretty good shape. The trapeze wires are a bit frayed and need to be changed. The stays and trapeze are looped around the same tube which is slide through the mast and the ends are peened over.

    My question is: how do you replace the stays or trapeze wires? I’m thinking, drill out the tube and replace with a through bolt? Any other suggestions?
    in this picture you can see the tube just above the mast line. The stay and trapeze enter the mast below and the tube passes through loops in the ends.

    i googled around and can’t find any info on how to do this. Surely stays have broken before. . .

    D0674376-F6CB-45CB-9F13-FF1C34F14D40.jpeg
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    It looks as though when you have removed the pin (an angle grinder would be my go to tool) you will have to cut the wires as the crimped eyes will not go through the hole in the mast extrusion. Then you will have to take the mast to a rigger to have the new ones made in situ.
    Rather than a bolt which will be really clunky, I would use a bar drilled for clevis or split pins that will not stand off the mast as far as a bolt head and nut.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    I'll go another way.
    Don't touch that through-tube.

    Cut those existing stays where they exit the mast at that horrible little chafe-hole, and stuff the stubs back into the mast. They won't hurt anything.

    The through-tube is a perfect compression sleeve.
    Through-bolt with a small tang on each side to properly hang new stays and traps. Ideally, I'd do a long tang for the stays, inboard of a shorter tang for the traps.

    The stays can be wire but I much prefer dyneema for the traps.
    No adversary is worse than bad advice.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    ^ Good shout, makes future inspection and maintenance much easier.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    just use dyneema through the existing tube, spice and eye and loop the it around the front of the mast and pass the tail through the eye.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    I'll go another way.
    Don't touch that through-tube.

    Cut those existing stays where they exit the mast at that horrible little chafe-hole, and stuff the stubs back into the mast. They won't hurt anything.

    The through-tube is a perfect compression sleeve.
    Through-bolt with a small tang on each side to properly hang new stays and traps. Ideally, I'd do a long tang for the stays, inboard of a shorter tang for the traps.

    The stays can be wire but I much prefer dyneema for the traps.
    Thanks everyone,

    I just ordered 2, 4 hole tangs. 1 to attach to the mast through the “compression sleeve” and then the bottom hole will be for the trap and the next up for the stay. The next one up from that will be unused or I might through bolt to the other side to prevent rotation of the tang, although I would think the stay would prevent that.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Yes, let it swing to find its own alignment. Although I do not see how you can shackle both shroud and trapeze to one four hole tang.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    wonders "what were they thinking?" when they built that mast
    Streamlining, minimal clutter.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    What is the exact purpose of the black band? - there may be class limits on the shroud attachment point heights.....
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    I’m building a fireball. This is an old rig I bought, circa 1970s and I’m replacing the halyards and stays and trap wires. The rest of it seems in pretty good shape. If I’m happy with how the boat turns out I might invest in new.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    What is the exact purpose of the black band? - there may be class limits on the shroud attachment point heights.....
    Now we know that it is a Fireball we have answers
    Mast Bands
    17.6.1
    The mast shall carry three indelibly marked bands of a colour strongly contrasting with the colour of the mast. These bands shall not be less than 10mm in width.

    17.6.2
    The top of the lower band shall not be more than 1029mm above the heel of the mast, tenon excluded. When racing the top of the boom shall not come below the top of the lower band.

    17.6.3
    The lower edge of the middle band shall not be more than 5086mm nor less than 5074mm above the heel of the mast, tenon excluded. The line of the luff of the foresail, when extended, shall not meet the forward side of the mast above this height.

    The points where the lines of the shrouds and of the forestay when extended meet the mast shall be within 80mm of the lower edge of the middle band

    CK, You will need to watch that last rule if you want to race, but you may be OK with external tangs as your forestay is OK.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Racing dink.... cool, started the build yet?
    yes, all done but the hardware. There’s a building thread here you can search for if you like.


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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Its a long time since I saw an internal shroud attachment tube.These days lots of us use T-terminals,which are a lot quicker to change but have the disadvantage of needing a good rigger to swage the fittings to the wires.Have you looked at the Selden catalogue?http://www.seldenmast.com/files/1378.../595-812-E.pdf They are the successor to Proctor.You have found a potential solution and I wish you good luck with it.Can't get too keen on Dyneemaa trapeze lines as I have sailed with them and found they whistled and added a fair bit of windage for the reduction in weight.




  14. #14
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Search doesn't work here if you don't want to share it that's okay your boat your build good luck

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    If you open a guys profile there is a list of "started threads"
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...Fireball-Build
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    I have no experience with this kind of hounds. My first thought is to ask here http://www.cvrda.org/community/

    My second thought is that it's not peened over but the two sides are screwed into each other to make a sleeve. I can't see Proctor putting out something that can't be fixed. Is there enough meat there that you can get vice grips on the mushrooms, or can you jam big screwdrivers in there.

    I won't ask where your build thread is, I've been enjoying it all along.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Doesn't work on Tapatalk duh

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Tapatalk won't open the link I gave you? What a crappy system.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    I’ll have to take another look to see if the two sides a screwed together. Just how do these t-fittings work, Seldén doesn’t say. Do you put them in the slot and turn 90 degrees and they lock in? It’s been suggested to me that the advantage to t- fittings, is I can install them on my next mast after this one snaps. :O.

    Your prolly all wondering why I’m going through this exercise. I priced out new spars and sails and I came up with 4000 USD. I’m guessing another 1000 USD for incidental stuff on top of that. I got an old fireball for 1000 and robbed it of all the hardware then cut up the boat. the mast was serviceable the way it was. Replacing all the lines in the mast and boom was 200. I figure the stays and trap wires might be another 300.

    Given my my racing experience, no one is gonna notice new stuff verse old stuff.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    I’ll have to take another look to see if the two sides a screwed together. Just how do these t-fittings work, Seldén doesn’t say. Do you put them in the slot and turn 90 degrees and they lock in? It’s been suggested to me that the advantage to t- fittings, is I can install them on my next mast after this one snaps. :O.
    Just so. The hole in the mast will need some serious reinforcing to distribute the load and take the wear. Hence those three plates pictured.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    You correctly understand the way the T-terminals work.The old internal shroud anchorage tube you have has been belled out at each end and peened over,there are no threads involved.Normally they had a slightly larger hole for the shrouds than you show,but still had to have the tube removed for replacement.I very much doubt that there are original tubes in any stockist anywhere now,but in their era you could carefully drill out one end and push the remnants out of the other side of the mast.You then threaded the new shrouds through the clearance holes and slid the new tube into place.A hearty thump on a tapered drift swelled the carefully cut end and then some careful peening formed an end that wouldn't fall out.Its not too hard to see why T-terminals swept the system away-but you do need a rigger with the equipment to swage the fittings onto the wire.For dinghy size wires the common British Talurit press will work,not sure how the rest of the world does the job.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    You correctly understand the way the T-terminals work.The old internal shroud anchorage tube you have has been belled out at each end and peened over,there are no threads involved.Normally they had a slightly larger hole for the shrouds than you show,but still had to have the tube removed for replacement.I very much doubt that there are original tubes in any stockist anywhere now,but in their era you could carefully drill out one end and push the remnants out of the other side of the mast.You then threaded the new shrouds through the clearance holes and slid the new tube into place.A hearty thump on a tapered drift swelled the carefully cut end and then some careful peening formed an end that wouldn't fall out.Its not too hard to see why T-terminals swept the system away-but you do need a rigger with the equipment to swage the fittings onto the wire.For dinghy size wires the common British Talurit press will work,not sure how the rest of the world does the job.
    It may seem lame, but at my local West Marine - if you buy your wire & fittings from them, you can use their press for free. I bet that, if they can't get a special fitting, but you bought the wire from them, they'd still let you use it.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    It may seem lame, but at my local West Marine - if you buy your wire & fittings from them, you can use their press for free. I bet that, if they can't get a special fitting, but you bought the wire from them, they'd still let you use it.
    Thanks, we’ve got one about a 2 hours away in Madison.
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    I removed the sleeve. The t-terminal plates didn’t quite fit in the sleeve hole. It looks a bit sloppy. I might fashion some sort of trim piece. I also am going to install them below where the original stays exited the mast out through a hole. Those turned out a bit nicer. They’re both temporarily held in place with bailing wire. One for a stay and one for a trap wire.

    C0186A76-7558-47A2-B319-53591FCFFBC0.jpg
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Step by step
    9EA3B17B-73C1-423D-94EE-35E564A682E4.jpg

    trace the hole

    0448C1F4-359F-43B4-AE30-D1DE6CF24F2F.jpg
    File it to fit

    8E3AFB2E-8216-47CD-A06E-63E16C0D76DE.jpg
    Use the plate to mark the holes. Use a center punch so the bit doesn’t slip.

    D66D4A9A-58B3-4C10-863C-1F0878C34C32.jpg
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Off to work for a few days. I need to straighten out one spreader. The new Halyards are in. The next step is to fit the boat on a trailer, step the mast and measure for new stays and trap wires.
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Proctor mast trapeze repair

    Usually you can find small rubber plugs to fill the gap between the terminal fitting and the Tee itself. I think you can find them through Rig-Rite: http://www.rigrite.com/Rigging/T-Bal...gs.php#T-Rings

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