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Thread: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

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    Default ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    What a charming site! Thanx for having me aboard. I'm Mikel / Modeleer...
    I am hoping to get answers for some old questions - that may in turn help me get a model built.

    Does anyone recognize the type of boat 'prop' that was used in the 1954,
    Walt Disney's production of Jules Verne's 20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea'?
    In the film this boat plays the 'part' of a "longboat" from
    the 'USS Abraham Lincoln' Civil War Steam Frigate.
    I'm more interested in the actual boat used at Disney Studios in 1954
    than what might be period accurate to the Civil War.

    I would like to know what type of boat it is as well as the type 'name' if there is one.
    Also if Identified correctly: if legible plans are available to use in fabricating
    a near to accurate as possible replica miniature.



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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    I'f it were not for the curbve of the stem I'd have suggested a Whitehall.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Check out the Ducktrap site, you may find a boat similar to the one in the movie. Their site is a bit of mess but they have beautiful boats.
    http://ducktrapstore.com/wherries/

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    If not a Whitehall, what type do you think it is?
    I cannot read the small text on the image you posted.
    Does it have a name?

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Hmmm. "As accurate as possible" is a hard one simply because while the type might be identifiable (Whitehall is certainly as close as anything) there can be lots of variance from boat to boat within a given type. So if you care, for example, about modeling the exact number of frames, number of planks, shape of the thwart knees and other details that are not visible in the photo you are not likely to find anything that will be a perfect match that way. But you could definitely find plans for a boat of similar construction and shape and make adjustments from there based on what you can see in the film.

    Here is one for example:


    http://www.duck-trap.com/2002dtw.html

    That's the Duck Trap Wherry. The shape of the stem is closer to your prototype than a Whitehall would be although it looks a bit finer and narrower perhaps. You might also look for designs by R.D. ("Pete") Culler which are readily available as plans or in various books. Here is a good selection:

    https://www.woodenboatstore.com/cate...keyword=culler

    Or a google search for "lapstrake pulling boat" or "lapstrake wherry" would give you a few hundred images of boats like the one in your picture and you can pick and choose from those to come as close as you can. I'd guess that boat is around 12'-14' long which might help you narrow things down as bit as well. Good luck in any case - it's an interesting project!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    I really appreciate the replies & the honest candor therein.
    'As close as possible' is where I'm coming from & with this collective: sage council - where I 'plan' to end up.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Quote Originally Posted by MODELEER View Post
    I really appreciate the replies & the honest candor therein.
    'As close as possible' is where I'm coming from & with this collective: sage council - where I 'plan' to end up.
    What scale do you use? That could be quite a fiddley build with steamed timbers.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    I think I can manage 'fiddley'.
    While I'm seeking information about a 'wooden boat'
    my 20K / Lincoln's Longboat model may incorporate other building materials.
    I may even have her built in Computer Generated Information
    so the 'file' could be used to 'print' a 'resin' model in 3D.
    I'd like to end up with replicas in 1/35th & 1/48th scales.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    This is a pretty small boat to be considered a ship's long boat with only two thwarts and presumably stern sheets. Doesn't look more than about 14/ 1 feet. Whitehall is a name bandied about too much as a Whitehall was a specific water taxi based boat used in New York City derived from similar types used in UK harbors. Yawl boat or tender would be more accurate. Since this was Hollywood, they missed a couple of things common to a ship's boats namely stout rub strip on the bottom of the sheer strake and a bit of tumble home in the topsides so that the beamiest part was not the rail. Looks to me that Hollywood found an appropriately sized yacht tender.
    Ben Fuller
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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    This is a pretty small boat to be considered a ship's long boat with only two thwarts and presumably stern sheets.
    I did mention it was a film & the boat is only "playing" the part. Thanx for your reply. My wooden boat-parts jargon is rusty (I took sailing lessons as a very young boy) so I will be looking up the numerous terms you used to describe what is & isn't. I concur that the boat used was a locally found (yacht) accessory approx. 14 to 16 ft long = (you have a Good Eye!). Thanx!

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Check out the Ducktrap site, you may find a boat similar to the one in the movie. Their site is a bit of mess but they have beautiful boats.
    http://ducktrapstore.com/wherries/
    Bingo! The Christmas Wherry even has the same number of strakes, curved transom notched for sculling and proud sheer.



    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Here are some references you may find useful:

    Pete Culler On Wooden Boats (Woodenboat Store LINK)



    Description
    Subtitled, A Master Craftsmans Collected Teachings on Boat Design, Building, Repair, and Use, its the wisdom of the late, great boat designer and builder renowned as one of the last and best of the old-time boat builders. This book brings together the complete texts of Cullers classic works Boats, Oars and Rowing and Skiffs & Schooners, other articles and some of his designs.
    by Pete Culler 386 pp., softcover
    * * * * * * * * * *

    Dory Book (The) (John Gardner) (Woodenboat Store LINK)



    Description
    The definitive look at dories, their history, and construction. Besides valuable building instructions, there are plans and offsets for all of the various dory types. This is the most comprehensive book ever published on the subject, and is noted for its clear Sam Manning illustrations, as well as its clear writing. Table of Contents: History of the Dory A Search for Beginners The Batteau Ancestor The Bank Dory Emerges How to Build a Dory Dory Laydown Dory Construction New Materials Dory Plans The 32-Foot MaineRiver Driving Batteau The 18-Foot Light Batteau The 19-Foot Heavy Batteau The Banks Dory The St. Pierre Working Dory The Hammond 16-Foot Swampscott Dory Fred Dion's Swampscott Dory The 17-Foot Nahant Dory The 18-Foot One-Design Swampscott Sailing Dory The Chamberlain Gunning Dory The 19-Foot Surf Dory The Beachcomber-Alpha A 12-Foot Semi-Dory A 14-Foot Semi Dory A 16-Foot Semi-Dory A 19-Foot, 8-Inch Semi-Dory The Chaisson 10-Foot Dory Tender A 12-Foot, 6-Inch Swampscott Dory Tender The 13-Foot Chamberlain Dory Skiff A 14-Foot Dory Skiff A 14-Foot, 4 1/2-Inch Outboard Flatiron The 14-Foot, 9-Inch Lowell Dory Skiff by John Gardner, illustrated by Samuel F. Manning 275 pp., softcover
    * * * * * * * * * *

    Building Classic Small Craft (Woodenboat Store LINK)



    Description
    by John Gardner 536 pp., softcover
    Combining two out of print books, Building Classic Small Craft and More Building Classic Small Craft, this edition includes plans, offsets and building instructions for 47 different boats. Including: L. Francis Herreshoff's Pram A Lowell Dory Skiff A Car-Top Dory The Peapod The St. Lawrence River Skiff The Origin of the Whitehall The Barnegat Sneakbox Herreshoff Rowboat and Modified McInnis Bateau Merrymeeting Bay Duckboat Down East Workboat Matinicus Peapod 16-Foot Swampscott Doryand many more. For each design the author provides plans and text that take the reader through the building cycle, from laying down the lines to setting up, lining off, planking, timbering, and finishing out. Gardner also describes the origin and evolution of each boat type, and he profiles some of the builders and designers of the past who were instrumental in their development.
    #include [std-disclaimer]

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    I think we have a chicken dinner!
    This Xmas Wherry even features the same interior ribbing(?).
    Now where can I get plans that match the wooden one I posted?


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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Those books look expensive, thanx

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Quote Originally Posted by MODELEER View Post
    Those books look expensive, thanx
    Try looking in the library; you also have used book stores (Powell's), and there may nautical/marine flea markets and consignment/thrift stores. I've found good books in all of those.
    Good Luck & Have Fun!

    PS -- We'd appreciate a build thread with pictures.

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
    (Keeley - Sherrard translation)

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Here's an example of my work.
    It's the 1/35th scale Skiff from the Disney Nautilus

    a mini diorama
    Last edited by MODELEER; 02-04-2018 at 04:14 PM.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    It looks to be "yacht grade" but a couple of details (I think) I noticed were the stem head is cut off flush, and there are rubbing strakes on each plank land.(edit after seeing Dave's post that these are obviously just shadows)
    In that era, both of these details were common to small boats working around larger vessels. These could have been added for effect or it could have been purpose built.
    Probably built in San Pedro, or close by... By eye, not from plans. You could have ordered that boat built and finished for $100 or less then.
    Maybe Disney still has it?
    (I worked in a boat shop that made several rowboats on contract for Disney movies, and they were quick and dirty builds. No glue or bedding, hardware store nails and screws etc.) Most were never intended to float for more than a few minutes and some were intended to sink!)
    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 02-04-2018 at 04:47 PM.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Quote Originally Posted by MODELEER View Post
    I did mention it was a film & the boat is only "playing" the part. Thanx for your reply. My wooden boat-parts jargon is rusty (I took sailing lessons as a very young boy) so I will be looking up the numerous terms you used to describe what is & isn't. I concur that the boat used was a locally found (yacht) accessory approx. 14 to 16 ft long = (you have a Good Eye!). Thanx!
    Ben has a very good eye. I was looking at two identical boats once and it only took him 20 minutes to point out the obvious differences.

    In some respects, the 'longboat' is huge, considering that the Lincoln was only 30 feet long and the ocean was 300 feet long and 3 feet deep. http://modelshipsinthecinema.com/wp/archives/398 There is no mention on the site of the boat you are interested in, but there are some names at the end who you might be able to contact for information.

    There are also some lobby cards with more detailed pictures of the boats.



    FWIW, This is a Disney blueprint of the Nautilus (wrong) longboat. ebay, sale ends in 2/13/2018.
    Last edited by MN Dave; 02-10-2018 at 12:44 AM.
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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Thanx, I already know my way around Harper Goff's Nautilus. I host a study-group about her on facebook.
    I came here to learn more from experienced small craft boatmen - about the small wooden boat used in the film.
    I'm hoping to find Xmas Wherry plans to build a miniature with the 'interior' very much like this one(see image below).
    (if anyone here can point me in That direction I would be even more grateful than I am now)
    I thank you all Very Much for the information already provided!!!


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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Go to bing, type in "Christmas Wherry Plans" and this is the first link that comes up. http://ducktrapstore.com/christmas-wherry-plans/

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Screencaps of the best views I could grab of the interior & stern:




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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Good stuff, but, But I have always wondered if they had a functioning submarine for the film, or just a series of 'props'. Likely the latter, but I liked the idea that it actually worked. Probably wishfull thinking, like usual..

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    The only full hull Nautilus was an 133.5 inch filming miniature.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Life cuts the usual disapointments. But that is a nice model..

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Modeleer, one other thought: You might reach out to Peter Bailey via Facebook:

    https://www.facebook.com/peter.bailey.73

    He's a member of the WoodenBoat Forum FB group and frequently posts about boats and nautical props from his career building boats for Hollywood films. I don't know the man personally but he's been working in the film industry for many years and may have come across the original "longboat" or have some knowledge of it.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    If the film was made in Hollywood, the longboat may have been hired/purchased from a local boat livery business. Is it a Los Angeles boat type?
    Like these
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 02-06-2018 at 09:32 AM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Thanx, Chris - I will try to contact Peter!

    Nick! Is there a LA 'Type' boat? The pic you posted looks like a Twin!!
    I would really really like to see more pics of Them!!!

    Your tip led me to this 'Lake George' (cousin) which looks Very close.
    Note: the number & spacing of the vertical ribs(?) on the interior!
    here's a pic & partial description:

    Name: Ebb
    Year Built: 2015
    Owner: Tom Regan
    Designer: Grapeview Point Boat Works
    Design: Lake George Boat
    Type: Row
    Description: “Ebb” is a glued lapstrake varient of the 1911 Lake George Boat “Winona” which is in the Mystic Seaport collection. The Lake George Boats were recreational boats derived from the working Whitehalls.
    (wellwhatdoyaknow: there's that word again: "Whitehall" - Thanx Nick!)
    Last edited by MODELEER; 02-06-2018 at 10:04 AM.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    The transom is too narrow on that example.
    Although those boats pictured have outriggers fitted, their hull form, including the stem and transom looks similar.
    They are GP mouldings used by Phins Water Sports Club.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 02-06-2018 at 10:34 AM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    They are GP mouldings used by Phins Water Sports Club.
    If the Phin Club boats are 'molded' then they ain't what I'm looking for.
    The hunt goes on....
    Last edited by MODELEER; 02-06-2018 at 11:25 AM.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Quote Originally Posted by MODELEER View Post
    If the Phin Club boats are 'molded' then they ain't what I'm looking for.
    The hunt goes on....
    Clinker GRP boats are moulded from a wooden prototype male plug and capture the shape exactly.
    Furthermore you may be able to find out what prototype they were copied from.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Having part of this kind of thing a few times, the Hollywood folks reach out to the local funky boat community, look over what is on offer, and do a deal for something that sort of looks right.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    new screen-grab of stern:

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Nick-
    I live in L.A. and oddly those two white boats are from Victoria, Canada:
    http://www.whitehallrow.com/
    They are rowing out of Marina del Rey, which had a rental concession for a while. I rented a couple of times from them. Sadly, it didn't prove popular and closed a few years ago. The boats are tough, seaworthy and unsinkable but also quite heavy and slow; they have a sliding seat, so you reach hull speed quickly and start digging a hole in the water after that. But for easy-going rowing, they are great.

    BTW, SUP (paddleboard) helped kill the concession, and in response, they came up with a strap-on sliding rigger unit for paddleboards that may be adaptable to rowboats.
    Last edited by Tallman; 02-09-2018 at 05:25 PM.

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    Default Re: ID 'type' of "USS Lincoln's Longboat" in '20,ooo Leagues Under the Sea' (1954)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallman View Post
    Nick-
    I live in L.A. and oddly those two white boats are from Victoria, Canada:
    http://www.whitehallrow.com/
    They are rowing out of Marina del Rey, which had a rental concession for a while. I rented a couple of times from them. Sadly, it didn't prove popular and closed a few years ago. The boats are tough, seaworthy and unsinkable but also quite heavy and slow; they have a sliding seat, so you reach hull speed quickly and start digging a hole in the water after that. But for easy-going rowing, they are great.

    BTW, SUP (paddleboard) helped kill the concession, and in response, they came up with a strap-on sliding rigger unit for paddleboards that may be adaptable to rowboats.
    So they are a Whitehall type, but with more rake to the stem and transom and all clinker rather than the classic Whitehall.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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