Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Looking for any information about this yacht...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Missoula, Montana
    Posts
    4

    Default Looking for any information about this yacht...

    Greetings, I am new to this forum and admittedly not very educated about wooden boats, (or any boats) or Yachting (or sailing) for that matter (my apologies)... BUT, I was directed here by the fine folks at the US Classic Yacht Assoc. bc they thought someone here could help me.

    I have a very old Real Photo Post Card that I am attaching here and trying to get any possible information on the yacht depicted. This photo/post card would have been created pre-1909, I believe.

    Unfortunately, I really have no idea in what part of the country, or world for that matter, it was taken. It is part of a private postcard collection belonging to my Father, my Grandfather, and Great Grandmother. The latter 2 have ties largely to NY, NJ, and New England but also traveled abroad back in those days (UK, Italy, Netherlands).

    If anyone has any ideas, I would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks in advance. Jon.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA, USA
    Posts
    2,251

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    If I had to guess, I'd guess she's from the Chesapeake. From the rig (low-aspect bermudian), the rake of the masts (pretty extreme), and the stem/cutwater, maybe a big "bugeye" type? But the rest of her lines, especially her stern, don't seem quite right for a bugeye. Maybe a bugeye hybrid, built as a yacht?

    I'm in no way an expert, though --certainly not on the boats from that part of the world. Hopefully someone better versed in the type will be along soon.

    That's a smart little launch hanging astern, too.

    Alex

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    15,317

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    Spirit of Bermuda also has raked spars like that.
    Apparently she was designed after an image from an old post card ,or painting !

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    15,317

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    This painting, in fact!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA, USA
    Posts
    2,251

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    Looking at Spirit of Bermuda on Google Images, her stern looks *a lot* closer to type for the OP boat than a bugeye's stern does, too.

    I think Wizbang is hitting closer than I did (no surprise).

    Alex

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Missoula, Montana
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    So, a Bermuda sloop design as was used by the Royal Navy for "cruisers" according to my limited Internet research. Do you think perhaps a Baltimore Clipper design or am off base? Also, given what appears to be people dressed in white and the "smart" nature of the launch (thank you, Alex) would anyone suggest perhaps it was a Royal Navy vessel? Note the design of the launch in the color image, which is a painting of a "two masted schooner with the British Royal Navy flag.
    Last edited by Jherrick01; 02-01-2018 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Add images

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA, USA
    Posts
    2,251

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    Erm... The Bermuda sloops you're thinking of were a very different animal than the ketch in the OP.

    The bow of the OP doesn't look right to me for a Baltimore clipper-type, and the rig certainly isn't right, in many ways. Not enough bowsprit/jibboom, either, even for an atypical variant of the genotype. I think Wizbang's offer of a Bermuda schooner is the best guess for general type --but I don't know enough about the type to take the discussion much farther than that.

    *Maybe* the OP is a navy vessel, I can't say with any certainty that she isn't, but I personally don't see any evidence for it. Nice launches and white livery were pretty common to yachts. And I'll go a little way out on a limb and at least suggest that the full-length cabin trunk --i.e. no working deck amidships-- might point toward her role as a yacht.

    Speaking of the cabin trunk: given how high it is, I'd guess she has a pretty shoal draft. I don't know if that guess adds anything to the discussion, though.

    Alex

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Missoula, Montana
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    Thanks so much for the input. Learning a lot from this discussion. And I certainly do appreciate your time. I hope to solve this mystery.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,186

    Default

    It's rigged like a bugeye, but that transom is something else. A gentleman's bugeye yacht?
    -Dave

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    6,099

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    It's rigged like a bugeye, but that transom is something else. A gentleman's bugeye yacht?
    I am tending to agree with Pitsligo and Wobox. I don’t know that I’d want to go too far offshore with her. That big trunk cabin has me thinking shoal draft too.
    During that time period lots of yards were building lots of stuff, and not all of it of ‘known’ designers work. There was a lot of ‘well guys, I scratched this nice curve in the dirt, now we’re gonna build a boat around it’.

    I think only a small portion of the boats built over the last 150 years were of 'documented' designs (designs that started on paper).
    Last edited by nedL; 02-02-2018 at 03:53 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    20,355

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jherrick01 View Post
    So, a Bermuda sloop design as was used by the Royal Navy for "cruisers" according to my limited Internet research. Do you think perhaps a Baltimore Clipper design or am off base? Also, given what appears to be people dressed in white and the "smart" nature of the launch (thank you, Alex) would anyone suggest perhaps it was a Royal Navy vessel? Note the design of the launch in the color image, which is a painting of a "two masted schooner with the British Royal Navy flag.
    You are confusing Bermudan--belonging to the country and bermudan--a 3 cornered sail. They are not totally unrelated, but can be considered so for the confines of your search.

    Definitely a yacht with paid crew. The steps arrangement hanging over the starboard side, is for the owners and their guests. The crew would have a rope ladder on the port side.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA, USA
    Posts
    2,251

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    You are confusing Bermudan--belonging to the country and bermudan--a 3 cornered sail.
    Given the context of Baltimore Clippers being mentioned, I think he may be referring to one of these Bermuda sloops:



    It's rigged like a bugeye, but that transom is something else. A gentleman's bugeye yacht?
    Woxbox, have a look at the schooner Wiz posted, then imagine the OP with that clipper cutwater chopped off. What do you think? The stems then seem pretty similar to me. The sterns are already similar enough to hint at kinship, and that cutwater in the OP may be a tacked-on affectation to a similar hull to Wiz's Bermuda schooner. I've seen such a cutwater affectation before on non-clipper bows, even on otherwise reasonable wooden boats (there's one Friendship sloop in particular that comes to mind).

    Alex

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    6,099

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...




    THE 'BUGEYE' OF THE CHESAPEAKE
    Edited from the writings of Peter C. Chambliss


    A late 1800’s, early 1900’s dictionary definition of the ‘bug’-eye’ - A canoe made of several hewn planks, decked over and sharp rigged, the ordinary small sailing craft of the Chesapeake Bay and it’s tributaries – may have given the world at large a mental picture of a diminutive, crudely made craft, a sort of skiff, as inadequate for playing the role of the workaday ‘bugeye’.

    It fails to describe properly, the staunch seaworthy ships of upwards of 100 tons burden or more that could carry their sail long after larger craft have shortened sail or sought shelter. It fails woefully to describe the bugeye’s, keen, graceful clipper bow, the ample but not too full-waisted mid-ship section, the tapering sharp stern, the tall masts that rake sharply aft and the sharp-headed sails of the bugeye rig that were sharp-headed many years before the Marconi rig became the standard among racing sailboats.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    N.E. Connecticut.
    Posts
    6,099

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...




  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Missoula, Montana
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    Wow!. That's very cool. Thank you nedL for jumping in!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Olympia, WA, USA
    Posts
    2,251

    Default Re: Looking for any information about this yacht...

    ...the bugeye’s, keen, graceful clipper bow, the ample but not too full-waisted mid-ship section, the tapering sharp stern, the tall masts that rake sharply aft and the sharp-headed sails of the bugeye...
    Exactly! That's why my first guess was a bugeye. And the OP's rig --raked masts, short bowsprit-- is pure bugeye. But look at the typical bugeye stern: it's almost pinky-like, in its taper at the waterline and its cantilevered quarters, and very different from the stern of the OP. The OP's stern is much more like Wizbang's Bermuda schooner.

    Also, it appears to my examination that the OP's bow has a more vertical *stem* than the typical bugeye. It may just be the line of the anchor rode getting in the way, but I think it's the cutwater that makes the bow look more raked than it is. Again, it looks more like Wizbang's example than like a typical bugeye, but with a cutwater bolted on. The Friendship sloop Coast Of Maine had a similar oddity, with a spoon bow stem and a clipper bow cutwater. It didn't look bad --you hardly noticed until you were up close and had looked at it for a while-- but it was unusual.

    I worked for a while on the bugeye Little Jenny, back in '89, soon after her restoration. That's her in the lower of NedL's pictures. They're great boats. But the more I look at the OP, the more I think she's either a bugeye-yacht hybrid or a Bermudan schooner with a faux clipper cutwater.

    Alex

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •