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Thread: Abolish the presidency?

  1. #1
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    Default Abolish the presidency?

    I have no idea who Kyle Sammn us and do not normally read the Federalist, but this headlne on MSN news opinion page caught my eye so I read the article.

    We Should Abolish The Presidency If Oprah Runs https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBIc2Hn?m=en-us&a=1

    I think it makes some very good points. We have allowed the presidency to become far too powerful, yet we have elected Trump and there are now serious people advocating Oprah's run for the presidency. Supremely ironic.

    Perhaps in an internet age population, a directly elected head of government isn't so wise. Perhaps a parliamentary type government is now definitively superior?

    Let us directly elected a head of state, where the electorate's idiocy can do little damage?

    It may be a premature discussion, but it is a discussion which will very well come if we continue down the path of an all powerful, yet inexperienced presidency.

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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    <yawn>
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Your problem is that you did not want an hereditary monarch, but you have an amateur monarch with all of the power of a monarch and no restraining mechanism.
    What you need is a president controlled by a truly democratic parliament.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Your problem is that you did not want an hereditary monarch, but you have an amateur monarch with all of the power of a monarch and no restraining mechanism.
    What you need is a president controlled by a truly democratic parliament.
    Oh, come on! Like a democratic parliamentary system could ever work.

    Peace,

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Oh, come on! Like a democratic parliamentary system could ever work.

    Peace,
    You should give democratically elected representatives a try.

    OK, OK, I know I am being silly, but if you could you would be pleasantly surprised.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    You should give democratically elected representatives a try.

    OK, OK, I know I am being silly, but if you could you would be pleasantly surprised.
    Whatdya mean? This is a democracy! I swore to The Republic ever day as a child. Wait...
    Actually, in fifth grade I was suspended for not saying The Pledge Of Allegience. I refused to swear fealty to a republic, despite several vigorous spankings. I refused even to mouth the words silently. They eventually capitulated because they wanted the butt in the chair for more money. Compulsory attendance, and all. Everyone must be programmed. Or labeled.

    I have always been a hard headed fool.
    And a desperate dreamer...

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. They shoulda NEVER taught me to read if they wanted to lie to me.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    I've long felt that there are inherent problems in having a party so separate from its leader. So able to be set at odds with the party they are supposed to lead, and to be chosen to lead a party which has little respect or commitment to them.

    The Primary process is unique in the world, I think. And an astonishing source of fragmentation, which then compromises that party's ability to lead in unity. To say nothing of handing the opposite party bombs to throw, wedges to exploit.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I have no idea who Kyle Sammn us and do not normally read the Federalist, but this headlne on MSN news opinion page caught my eye so I read the article.

    We Should Abolish The Presidency If Oprah Runs https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBIc2Hn?m=en-us&a=1

    I think it makes some very good points. We have allowed the presidency to become far too powerful, yet we have elected Trump and there are now serious people advocating Oprah's run for the presidency. Supremely ironic.

    Perhaps in an internet age population, a directly elected head of government isn't so wise. Perhaps a parliamentary type government is now definitively superior?

    Let us directly elected a head of state, where the electorate's idiocy can do little damage?

    It may be a premature discussion, but it is a discussion which will very well come if we continue down the path of an all powerful, yet inexperienced presidency.
    I don't think that the power of the presidency (in the hands of someone autocratic and dictatorial) is nearly as much of the threat to the nation as is the nature of Congress.... where the influence of oligarchs vastly outstrips the rational will of the electorate, by virtue of their economic power.

    I think we are seeing this right now, with Republican legislators whose own moral compass would probably point in the direction of Donald Trump and their understanding that the man is dangerous and incompetent.... but who also recognize that combating the President means a likely primary challenge from the far right.

    I posted a thread recently about the number of conservative Republican legislators who are simply 'giving up' and intend to not run for re-election.... most likely, because they couldn't stomach boot-licking Trump to keep their seats.

    There IS some hope, though.... responsible conservatives like Charlie Baker who know how to govern with high ethical and moral standards, who aren't slaves to ideology (and who therefore earn a dismissal as a RINO) DO exist.... and maybe we can find more of them.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    We Should Abolish The Presidency If Oprah Runs
    I surprised myself with a very similar thought the other day.

    I've always been surprised how many people (especially conservative men) seem to crave some sort of national daddy figure. This was especially prevalent among Reagan's followers.

    (And it's not just politics. I've always been skeptical of grown men who identify athletes as their personal heroes.)

    I've always thought the president should be a competent administrator who is effective at using procedures to implement policy.

    I think the best solution would be for everyone to come around to that way of thinking. But if that's not going to happen, I think a reasonable compromise is to elect some sort of national figurehead who can prance around in a flight suit or throw out a pitch at the World Series and then, separately elect some wonks to do the real work.

    Oprah Winfrey would make a fine national figurehead. She'd make a better president than Trump, but that is not an endorsement.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Your problem is that you did not want an hereditary monarch, but you have an amateur monarch with all of the power of a monarch and no restraining mechanism.
    What you need is a president controlled by a truly democratic parliament.
    LOL, very loud at that. Been commenting on the Divine Right of Kings leftovers for years.

    Trouble is that a directly elected executive presidency does not sit with a parliamentary democratic system.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    I do not know about abolishing the presidency, but I would like a way to recall or offer a "vote of no confidence" like they do in other more civilized countries.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    LOL, very loud at that. Been commenting on the Divine Right of Kings leftovers for years.

    Trouble is that a directly elected executive presidency does not sit with a parliamentary democratic system.
    Why not, you just need to redefine the role, closer to an elected constitutional monarch answerable to a legislature.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by ljb5 View Post

    Oprah Winfrey would make a fine national figurehead. She'd make a better president than Trump, but that is not an endorsement.
    I can't remember who or where, but I did come across the notion once that the President is the "High Priest of Americanism". Every nation has a dark side and the current POTUS certainly qualifies as the high priest of the dark side - the very dark side - of the USA.

    An administrator.....a "daddy" (or "mummy") of the nation.......a high priest.......so many different roles. There's a lot to be said for separating them out a bit. And there's certainly a lot to be said for an a-political Head of State. (Our Lizzie has done her duty and been an excellent Head of State. I, for one, shall miss her when her time comes)
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    It has been suggested that we rewrite the constitution and have a parliamentary form of government.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    It still comes down to "My daddy can beat-up your daddy"

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    [QUOTE]I've always thought the president should be a competent administrator who is effective at using procedures to implement policy.
    /QUOTE]

    Bernie Sanders.
    You missed your chance.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    ^ thru no fault of his own.

    Our problem now, is less 45 than it is a Congress failing in its duty - after an equal failing of the Electoral Congress. While now it is relatively easy to see how partisan manipulations have created a group which refuses to 'play with the others', the constitution's authors never imagined the possibility. So no, do not eliminate the President - that will simply cause greater harm with an already out of control Congress - but rather fix Congress. The problem is, only Congress can legally do that. Leaving me to say - wasf.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    The Founders did anticipate the Executive acting in bad faith, but they did not anticipate collusion with another co-equal branch in an attempt to corrupt the third!
    Steve Martinsen

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Abolish the presidency?

    ^ Aye, SCOTUS are complicit too.. but Congress is who should stop it.

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