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Thread: We need honest news and politicians

  1. #1
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    Default We need honest news and politicians

    We need a new law. Not to strengthen the libel and fraud laws, but maybe to just enforce them. Trump has lied over 2000 times since he took office. Many laugh at that, but it's really not funny.


    Lying for political gain is FRAUD and we need to treat it as such. If we need a new law to do this, it needs to specifically make it a crime for politicians, their spokespeople, their ads, etc. and the 'news' media to get matters of fact wrong.


    We should see it as an illegal act when Trump says he had the biggest electoral college win since Reagan. Or that he had the largest inaugural crowed ever. Ads, instead of saying, "....and I approve this message." should say, "....and I certify this message to be factually accurate."


    When members of congress stand on the house or senate floor, any 'facts' they present should be legally required to be accurate.


    It should be illegal for Grassley, Graham, and others to give misinformation about the Fusion GPS testimony, which, since the entire transcript has been release we know they did.


    We cannot run a successful democracy with misinformed voters. Misinforming them needs to be illegal.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Newt Gingrich pioneered and now thirty five years later Trump has perfected utterly debasing political debate with a freedom from fact unprecedented in human history. The Trumpkin base truely don't care about truth. That infection is creeping to the liberal side as internet memes - some actually right wing trolls and some deluded lefties - follow suit with spreading any only confirmation bias falsehood.

    Laws will not fix that. We must each take the time to deal with our friends and neighbors who have fallen into the Trumpkin delusions, patiently chipping away at their walls of obdurate delusion, frustrating and seemingly futile as that is. After all some Millerites survived the Great Disappointment to become benign Adventists.

    What will Trumpkins become? Most that I know are not traditional overt racists even when they respond to the dog whistle. In fact they are personally kind, fair, open, essentially 'color blind' at the personal level. I've worked as an advocate getting government benefits for people who see no disconnect between getting my help and government cash and their rightist railing against government. They correctly see that they are losing. They just don't identify the manipulators to whom they are losing.

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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Laws will not fix that.
    No, and a great deal of damage would be done in the attempt.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Government fact-checking. What could go wrong with that?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Things seem to be pretty bad now. Too many people believe the alternative facts, which should be illegal.

    Isn't 'fraud' already illegal? Isn't it defined as misrepresenting matters of fact for personal gain? Why is it not fraud to lie for political gain?

    How can it be good to lie to the voters without consequence?
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    ...How can it be good to lie to the voters without consequence?
    Good?
    Well, Mr. Botard, do you still deny all rhinocerotic evidence?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Why is it not fraud to lie for political gain?
    Like Ian says, it wouldn't help. Indeed, if you attempt to punish political lies with law, it will make many people more disposed to believe them.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Our news outlets are too polarized. Each side slants the presentation to appeal to their viewers to keep them watching and to keep them buying their sponsors’ products. Both sides do it (I of course think the other side is worse). I don’t see an easy solution to this. Any forced controls would trample free speech and freedom of the press. But I wish there was a way to incentivize the news media in a more non-partisan way.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    The notion of honest news is fairly recent. The cartoon below is from the New York World, opposing Lincoln in 1864, entitled "The Miscegenation Ball".




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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Biased or lazy news agencies result in dishonest and corrupt politicians.
    Allan of the Grove
    "never send a ferret to do a weasel's job.."

  11. #11
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    You are a broken record on this John, it will not happen, put your energy into a fight that you have a chance of winning.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    See John, the dims don't want this 'honesty' business. You've got hiliary, bill, obama, pocohauntus: what would that be like?
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  13. #13
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Our news outlets are too polarized. Each side slants the presentation to appeal to their viewers to keep them watching and to keep them buying their sponsors’ products. Both sides do it (I of course think the other side is worse). I don’t see an easy solution to this. Any forced controls would trample free speech and freedom of the press. But I wish there was a way to incentivize the news media in a more non-partisan way.
    I don't mind bias, until they start making up facts to support that bias. Today, the facts seem to have a liberal bias.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    You are a broken record on this John, it will not happen, put your energy into a fight that you have a chance of winning.
    I'll keep fighting as long as they keep lying. Seems a worthwhile cause.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Fighting the lies is always worth it.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Our biggest threat, IMO, is the idea of alternative facts equaling actual facts. Misinformed voters are not a good foundation for our country, and it ought to be illegal to outright lie to them/us.

    During the senate debate on the ACA, there were many instances very much like the one on you tube where Franken had to correct falsehoods Thune had just presented. While that made you tube, it was not all that unique.

    One of the reasons the ACA was unpopular was all the lies the GOP had managed to spread. Once it was in place, it got steadily more popular as more and more people realized the truth.

    Much of our 'news' media has been part of the problem. It was the JOB of the news to tell us, back in '04, whether or not the swift boat ads were true, not to moderate a debate of differing opinions between a Republican and a Democrat. Same with Climate Change. Hosting a debate between two people with different opinions is not give us facts.

    We now see a GOP taking upon itself the role of protecting the president, rather than protecting the country.

    I said earlier that I have no problem with bias, as that's part of human nature. I have a problem when people make up facts to support that bias and present them as if they are facts.

    I remember a clip of FOX on gas prices. It spent a few minutes showing us FOX people explaining how the president had no control over gas prices (when G.W. was president) Then it showed a bunch of FOX people blaming Obama for rising gas prices. Hypocrisy? Making up facts?

    When prices came down under Obama, they were silent.

    Point here is a "news" outlet cannot change the facts based on who's in office. Either the president can effect gas prices or the president cannot effect gas prices. Making the facts fit your purpose is not reporting facts.

    I've posted before how my aunt called one Sunday and insisted I watch a live Hannity special. I did. Next day I did some research. The special was interesting, but the premise it was based on was a total lie.

    I don't think that's free speech. And we ought not accept is as such.

    More recently, we KNOW Grassley and Graham have been far less than honest as to what the Fusion GPS witness testified. They lied. They lied in order to protect Trump, and, in doing so, I believe, put our country at some risk. I don't see how that is free speech.

    And I really don't see how we benefit from accepting it as free speech. I think it is leading to our downfall.
    May be some rough water ahead. We're getting new captain.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Patriot's Truth Commision, yeah that's the ticket.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    See John, the dims don't want this 'honesty' business. You've got hiliary, bill, obama, pocohauntus: what would that be like?
    What exactly does “you’ve got” mean?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Is this part of the dropping of the Fairness Doctrine by Reagan ?
    Was that not to insure honesty in reporting and the beginning of Fox News?

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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I'll keep fighting as long as they keep lying. Seems a worthwhile cause.
    Doesn't follow that making lying illegal is an effective way of fighting it. Counter-productive efforts in worthwhile causes is an old story. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    In the New York World cartoon, white men are shown dancing with black women, but there no black men dancing with whites.

    The racist scum who drew it probably couldn't bear the thought of that.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! óCole Porter

  22. #22
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    The Fairness Doctrine actually was quite effective. That's why the Republicans got rid of it. The Republican party is devoted to the concentration of wealth for its own sake and the concentration of political power to abet the concentration of wealth. That is the basic policy from which all else flows.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: We need honest news and politicians

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    In the New York World cartoon, white men are shown dancing with black women, but there no black men dancing with whites.

    The racist scum who drew it probably couldn't bear the thought of that.
    That whole precious bodily fluids thing.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

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