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Thread: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

  1. #1
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    Default Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    I just received my new bower rode: 250' of 5/8" Yale "Brait" 8-strand plaited line. Yes, huge for my boat, but by the time I'm setting the 35# bower, I'll probably be grateful for the peace of mind. A new kedge rode of 1/2" "Brait", same length, for the new 18.6# kedge, is en route as soon as Fisheries gets it back in stock.

    On 3-strand line I can do whippings with my eyes closed --sailmakers, crown, racked, palm-and-needle, whatever. This 8-plait, however, is new for me, and I want to do right by it. Does anyone here have a favorite whipping technique for the stuff? Ideally something clean, that dresses well, and lays down into the structure of the line.

    (Serious demerits for the lubber who tells me to just give it a butane backsplice and call it good. *Extra* serious demerits if you suggest heat-shrink tubing/tape or rope-dip.)

    Illustrations are, of course, especially welcome.

    Alex

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    Like the palm and needle, but instead of finishing with passing around the whipping between the strands, just push the needle through the rope and go around the whipping and back.

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    I think I'd try out what I call the "drum finish" which looks a bit like ^v^v^v if the lines are connected. There are knitting gizmos that are like needle hooks, so you can push through between strands, hook whatever, and draw it back. Handier than trying to wiggle a sharp needle between strands.

    Leave a bit of you line running past the whipping and taped to hold it together while you whip and finish.

    Starting in the line above the whipping push diametrically through. Look at the end of the whipping, find the cross of strands right below your whipping line's exit, and go to the cross 2 strands over from it. Push through diametrically, around a strand, and back out where you'd entered. Back up to the top of the whipping and enter 4 away from where you'd first come out (2 from directly below where you'd just come) and again diametrically through, around a strand and back out . . .

    This is very suitable for something clunky like thick anchor rode. I like somewhat thick flat sail mending thread for whipping far better than stuff that's round.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    The gizmo is also known as a "latch hook", available in different sizes.
    Someday, I'm going to settle down and be a grumpy old man.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    I'm looking around at information on whipping but can't find much on your inquiry about 8-plait whipping
    What I find on 3-strand whipping in Ashley's shows, but does not say, the common, plain, or ordinary whipping (3442) is done with the lay of the rope (line)!?
    Palm-and-needle whipping, or sailmaker's whipping,(3446,3448) is shown, but not described, as against the lay, as best as I can see!?
    I did find in "Encyclopedia of Knots And Fancy Rope Work" by Graumont and Hensel, that..."Plain Whippings. (Whippings are always made with the twine wound against the lay of the rope. It is also customary to work the turns toward the end of the rope.)."
    Any authority or thoughts or opinions?

    I did find this...

    Last edited by jackster; 01-11-2018 at 12:08 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    I think that Ian might have a "snaked whipping" in mind.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    I have for many years always whipped eight strand Sampson "Intrepid" braid with an ordinary sewn whipping and never had any problems. As mentioned above, end at the side of the whipping away from the end of the line and pass stitches through with your needle. There's no reason why one couldn't use any of the fancier whippings in Ashleys or Hansel and Graumount, if so inclined.

    I'd prefer using a three-strand nylon rode for it's "stretch-ability," though. I'd expect less stretch with an eight strand braid and what is desired in a rode is the ability to stretch and cushion the shock loading. It appears that you now have the braid, so I guess you'll have to dance with the girl ya' brought.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    According to Annapolis Performance Sailing, Yale Nylon Brait Line absorbs shocks better then nylon 3 Strand.
    Don't know if that is what Pitsligo has!?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    Thank you all. I'll play around with the different options and see which I like best. I suspect some variant on Ian's "drum" whipping (I think that's what I know as a "racked" whipping) or just a simple palm-and-needle whipping. Waxed twine on the ends, of course, and then black nylon for the fathom marks.

    Good reminder about the snaked whipping. I always forget about that one. I put a small simple whipping every fathom, two at every tenth fathom, but I might make every fifth one a snaked, to differentiate.

    I'd prefer using a three-strand nylon rode for it's "stretch-ability," though.
    That's what I've used until now, and I agree 100% that it works well in just the ways you describe. However, I need a longer rode and I don't have much room in the chain locker, so I went with the "Brait" which stows *a lot* tighter. Bob Dollar, at R&W, recommended it, and specifically mentioned that it has good elasticity for just the shock absorbsion you mention. Playing with it in hand, here in my living room, it feels pretty good. No real way to give it a yea or nay except by taking it out and testing it, but that'll need to wait until summer.

    Alex

    ETA: yes, Jackster, I've got the Yale Brait --thanks for the link!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    I like the snaked as both better than and easier to form than the one I suggested. Now I don't know if I simply remembered wrongly or what. The advantage of stitches going through, as I suggest, is stronger with a double braid or core and mantle line, where the core might slip. For eight plaight, no problem.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    This is Brion Toss on braided line (rope) whipping...
    https://soundcloud.com/onthewindpodc...-rope-whipping

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    Just in case anyone's interested:

    I launched Bucephalus about a week ago, and this afternoon finally got her rigged, her sails bent on, and the boat generally ready for seasonal sea trials. As part of that, I brought aboard and stowed her two new rodes: 250' each of 1/2" and 5/8" Yale Brait.

    Wow, do they stow tight!

    Not only do they easily fit in the same space as her old rodes --150' each of 9/16" and 3/8" three-strand nylon-- but there's space left over, where there never was before with the old rodes. And they flake into the "chain locker" so compliantly it's like I'm pouring them in.

    That's 500' of line stowing easily in the same space as was once crowded by 300' --and the new line is a lot bigger.

    Only time will tell how well I like them as rodes, but for stowage, Brait is simply awesome.

    Alex

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    Back to the whipping;
    I never go to sea without this in my pocket and am often accused of packing the evil snoose in my back pocket, but no...
    This is a sailors best friend.

    IMG_4015.JPG

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Back to the whipping;

    This is a sailors best friend.

    IMG_4015.JPG
    Doesnt look like beer to me...

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    I definitely keep a roll of electrical tape in the repair kit, but if I have the time I like to do a proper twine whipping.

    In the end, on the rodes, I just did basic palm and needle whippings with waxed sail thread for the ends (two per end, of course) and very stout black nylon thread (almost twine) for the marks. Single narrow whipping at each fathom; two narrow whippings at the fives (5f, 15f, 25f, etc.); multiple wide "drum" whippings at the tens (two at 20f, three at 30f, four at 40f).

    I discovered that, in the rather slippery nylon Brait, doubling the ends of the whipping twine back and sewing them through the whipped band of rope, before nipping them off, made them considerably more secure. Especially on those where I did a simple sailmaker's whipping, no sewn passes. The constriction of the whipping seems to help keep the bitter end of the thread from working loose. Time will tell.

    Alex

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Doesnt look like beer to me...
    I have a small boat. Beer is way to bulky, rum is the thing.
    A six pack of rum will last a whole week!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Preferred Whipping for 8-Plait?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I have a small boat. Beer is way to bulky, rum is the thing.
    A six pack of rum will last a whole week!
    god yes ... and peeing can be dangerous . Cops can wack you or you can break you neck doin it.

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