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Thread: your personal protection

  1. #246
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Very impressive Ian and thank you. I"m sure its at least that bad in Baltimore, Detroit and Atlanta. And I'll bet its the same type of people, i.e., criminal record, not a high school graduate, and poor.

  2. #247
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    hmmm

    And I'll bet its the same type of people, i.e., criminal record, not a high school graduate, and poor.

    hmmm




    purely coincidental, I'm sure.. notwithstanding states look at elementary school scoring to determine 'future jail needs'.. but not to determine future school needs.

  3. #248
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    The point of the study is the statistics, the real world probability. Actual people who actually think they can protect themselves. People who are well trained, in practice, and well disciplined will fare much better. For the exceptional armed person, being armed may well enhance their safety. The problem, as both the study and the attempts to poohpooh it show, the numbers show that most people who arm themselves for self-defense are simply wrong about their own ability and are delusional about their safety.

  4. #249
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Originally Posted by Dale R. Hamilton

    Mad shooters generally attack groups of people who are defenseless- restaurants, bars, school, church's etc- except once. Guy walks into a gun store somewhere in Texas, draws his gun and fires several shots into the air- I guess to get attention. There is a uniformed police officer at the counter, and several other shoppers present. Most open fire. The shooter was killed- 9 different wounds, 3 different calibers. This was a Darwin award a few years back.
    Oh, my.. they was scaredificated! What if the ceiling plaster fell on their heads!

    Seriously, he was an idiot, but he shot NO ONE. They shot him. Is there _anyone_ who can't see all the things wrong with this picture? Clue - he was the least wrong.

  5. #250
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    hmmm




    hmmm




    purely coincidental, I'm sure.. notwithstanding states look at elementary school scoring to determine 'future jail needs'.. but not to determine future school needs.
    Baltimore school system has been had more money thrown at it than you could possibly believe. The $11 million referred to was withheld due to mismanagement.
    Ratus ratus bilgeous snipeous!

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
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  6. #251
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale R. Hamilton View Post
    Interesting you should say that on this day Keith. Today they released the final critiques on the Columbine school shooting- the one WHERE 28 STUDENTS AND FACULTY WERE KILLED while the police force mustered their efforts outside. Nobody inside had a gun. So I guess on this day it was 28 in 650,000 chance of being killed.
    Sorry, no rational being can really have such a poor grip of statistics, can they? You must be pretending that you don't know the way odds work for some unfathomable reason. At least, one hopes so.

  7. #252
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post


    And so on. Pretty impressive methodology.
    I'm surprised that you have missed so much in this work. The methodology is very flawed.

    Just for the heck of it look at the control group. Not only are they not representative of the "shot" group, but they are in different places and different times. I'll simplify it for you: someone on the street in a bad neighborhood at midnight, whether he is carrying a gun or not, is much more likely to be shot than someone who is home in bed in a better neighborhood.

    Shame on you for missing so much! Sure guns are problematic and result in injury, death, and destruction, but you don't have to throw logic and good methodology in the trash to support this meme.

  8. #253
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Unintentionally draw your firearm?
    It was meant to sound ridiculous. The point being, that everyone get's hung up on the responsibility in the act of carrying a firearm, but the reality is, the largest part of that responsibility is in the choice to draw it from it's holster. Don't get hung up on carry, think more about what it would/should take for you to actually use it. My gun means nothing on my hip except that it introduces one more option, I can go a lifetime without drawing it in anger, that's the plan.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  9. #254
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Well sure... continue. So far we have some 'snippets' that don't say much.

    If you should happen to need an outline for constructing an exposition of your thoughts... you might try this -- https://quizlet.com/129716743/compon...t-flash-cards/
    I hereby appoint you head abbess of the Sisterhood of the Bilge.

  10. #255
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I can go a lifetime without drawing it in anger, that's the plan.
    Jiminy crickets! Remind me not to piss you off! I hope it takes more than anger for you to draw your pistol!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  11. #256
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale R. Hamilton View Post
    Interesting you should say that on this day Keith. Today they released the final critiques on the Columbine school shooting- the one WHERE 28 STUDENTS AND FACULTY WERE KILLED while the police force mustered their efforts outside. Nobody inside had a gun. So I guess on this day it was 28 in 650,000 chance of being killed.
    Question; in an active shooter situation like Columbine or the Pulse Night Club; once the good guy with the gun draws his or her weapon, how do the other good guys know which is the bad guy? How do the cops know? Are you trained to fire into a crowd and hit your target while all he77 is breaking loose? Likely not. You not only make yourself a target but you endanger police and innocent people while the cops they try to determine who the good guy is. Clearly, you have not thought this out. That doesn't surprise me.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  12. #257
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Jiminy crickets! Remind me not to piss you off! I hope it takes more than anger for you to draw your pistol!
    Seriously . . . ? You know what I meant. Don't break my balls. I am a good guy with a gun and one that knows it's a tool with a very limited usefulness in terms of a positive outcome. I prefer to have the option but would gladly give mine up if the laws were made stricter and federally.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  13. #258
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    ^ hahahha!!!, low hanging fruit!

    I cared a pistol in my youth. Ruger p-89dc

    But, I was young and didn't understand that much about the world!

    I have one pistol left a .22 Rugar Mark II. It is dissembled and locked in the gun case with my long guns.
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  14. #259
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    ^ hahahha!!!, low hanging fruit!

    I cared a pistol in my youth. Ruger p-89dc

    But, I was young and didn't understand that much about the world!

    I have one pistol left a .22 Rugar Mark II. It is dissembled and locked in the gun case with my long guns.
    LOL, my low hanging fruit belong to only one person and she wears them around her neck.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  15. #260
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    ^ hahahha!!!, low hanging fruit!

    I cared a pistol in my youth. Ruger p-89dc

    But, I was young and didn't understand that much about the world!

    I have one pistol left a .22 Rugar Mark II. It is dissembled and locked in the gun case with my long guns.
    Your pistol is lying to you? Does your car prevaricate as well?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  16. #261
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Your pistol is lying to you? Does your car prevaricate as well?
    D-

    (Spelling and grammar count) **** Flash Back to Washington's Mill Elementary******

    I've been lazy about my dyslexia and lack of typing skills today!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  17. #262
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    D-

    (Spelling and grammar count) **** Flash Back to Washington's Mill Elementary******

    I've been lazy about my dyslexia and lack of typing skills today!
    I know you know words & grammar well enough for me to be comfortable giving you a hard time! Not that I ever give anyone grief around here...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  18. #263
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    !!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  19. #264
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Guns aside, these cell phone stun guns are absolutely stealthy.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01DU...Y8L&ref=plSrch

  20. #265
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    Baltimore school system has been had more money thrown at it than you could possibly believe. The $11 million referred to was withheld due to mismanagement.
    It's nice to have something to blame.. fix the management. The problem I mentioned is nationwide.

  21. #266
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Question; in an active shooter situation like Columbine or the Pulse Night Club; once the good guy with the gun draws his or her weapon, how do the other good guys know which is the bad guy? How do the cops know? Are you trained to fire into a crowd and hit your target while all he77 is breaking loose? Likely not. You not only make yourself a target but you endanger police and innocent people while the cops they try to determine who the good guy is. Clearly, you have not thought this out. That doesn't surprise me.

    McMike- Its going to be all over by the time the police show up and I might be dead by then. But then the shooter won't expect return fire will he? No I'm not trained to fire into a crowd- but I do have some fire discipline gleaned from 23 years service Army Special Forces.

  22. #267
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Lubys. Up the road. Guy executed many.

    Brave men rushed him only to be shot. Anyone with a gun could have stopped him as he walked around shooting unarmed people. That's why we changed the law. Violent crimes are prevented routinely by armed citizens. Little of it makes news.

  23. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale R. Hamilton View Post
    McMike- Its going to be all over by the time the police show up and I might be dead by then. But then the shooter won't expect return fire will he? No I'm not trained to fire into a crowd- but I do have some fire discipline gleaned from 23 years service Army Special Forces.
    Oh lord, Dale just won the internet, he served in the military and that means he's automatically right and is an exemplary human being. Whatever.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  24. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Lubys. Up the road. Guy executed many.

    Brave men rushed him only to be shot. Anyone with a gun could have stopped him as he walked around shooting unarmed people. That's why we changed the law. Violent crimes are prevented routinely by armed citizens. Little of it makes news.
    BS, You would think in a state like Texas, that they would proudly report any and all stories that validate the overall and ignorant point of view. Sure it happens, guns save lives, but I've never been presented with any evidence to show me a significant benefit to firearm proliferation in our society. FWIW, I see that same tired stories, about the good guy with a gun, bandied about and recycled in discussions like this and on the gun forums I read. It's just not a significant justification. Sorry about your luck.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  25. #270
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    My carry at all times is an extra pair of hearing aid batteries......you never know!

  26. #271
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    An older man was huddled behind a table with his wife as the gunman walked around the room shooting people. He said, I've got to do something; he is going to kill us all. The gentleman stood up and rushed at the gunman. He was shot and fatally wounded. The wife went to her husband instead of taking the opportunity to escape. She was executed as she held her dying husband's head in her lap. The daughter testified that she had a clear and unobstructed shot at the gunman. She had cover and a place to steady her hand on the overturned table. She testified that it would have been a very easy shot. But her gun was in the car because bringing it to Lubys would have been illegal.

  27. #272
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    An older man was huddled behind a table with his wife as the gunman walked around the room shooting people. He said, I've got to do something; he is going to kill us all. The gentleman stood up and rushed at the gunman. He was shot and fatally wounded. The wife went to her husband instead of taking the opportunity to escape. She was executed as she held her dying husband's head in her lap. The daughter testified that she had a clear and unobstructed shot at the gunman. She had cover and a place to steady her hand on the overturned table. She testified that it would have been a very easy shot. But her gun was in the car because bringing it to Lubys would have been illegal.
    A sad story indeed, and one instance, that took place 27 years ago, out of thousands of instances where guns were misused.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  28. #273
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Sorry. Wanted to let you know that we did think it through. We had an open debate and decided to let law abiding citizens carry guns if they choose to so that they could protect themselves.

    Texas violent crime is way down since early 90s. Maybe correlated; maybe caused. Believing gun ownership decreases gun violence isn't ignorant or short-sighted. It's a different opinion than yours I suspect.

    As the facts move against those who don't like citizen carry, wll need to work together to enforce appropriate restrictions. E.g.for those guilty of a violent crime.

  29. #274
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    BS, You would think in a state like Texas, that they would proudly report any and all stories that validate the overall and ignorant point of view. Sure it happens, guns save lives, but I've never been presented with any evidence to show me a significant benefit to firearm proliferation in our society. FWIW, I see that same tired stories, about the good guy with a gun, bandied about and recycled in discussions like this and on the gun forums I read. It's just not a significant justification. Sorry about your luck.
    Benefit-violent crime down. Now you have some evidence.

    Ignorant point of view? Be nice.

  30. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Oh lord, Dale just won the internet, he served in the military and that means he's automatically right and is an exemplary human being. Whatever.
    WTF? What he said was "but I do have some fire discipline gleaned from 23 years service Army Special Forces". How on earth to you get to what you said from that? I take it to mean that he's had some training - probably more than most - but nothing more than that.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  31. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    WTF? What he said was "but I do have some fire discipline gleaned from 23 years service Army Special Forces". How on earth to you get to what you said from that? I take it to mean that he's had some training - probably more than most - but nothing more than that.
    I disagree.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

  32. #277
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Benefit-violent crime down. Now you have some evidence.
    Violent crime is down significantly in New York and Boston, since the 90's, as well.. places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited... and it's a valid argument against a causative link.

    I automatically dismiss anecdotal evidence.... because it simply descends into dueling anecdotes, which is not informative of anything.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  33. #278
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Ok. I think it is better to evaluate all evidence.

  34. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Violent crime is down significantly in New York and Boston, since the 90's, as well.. places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited... and it's a valid argument against a causative link.

    I automatically dismiss anecdotal evidence.... because it simply descends into dueling anecdotes, which is not informative of anything.
    And murder reaching new highs in Baltimore, located in Maryland which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.
    Ratus ratus bilgeous snipeous!

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
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  35. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    And murder reaching new highs in Baltimore, located in Maryland which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.
    You still donb't get the concept of those guns coming from other, less restrictive states. You do realize, that fact has a very large impact on the subject here? If not, that's ignorance or denial. I admit, state gun laws don't work. We need strong federal regulations, and all gun crimes should become the jurisdiction of the feds IMO.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

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