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Thread: your personal protection

  1. #246
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Unintentionally draw your firearm?
    It was meant to sound ridiculous. The point being, that everyone get's hung up on the responsibility in the act of carrying a firearm, but the reality is, the largest part of that responsibility is in the choice to draw it from it's holster. Don't get hung up on carry, think more about what it would/should take for you to actually use it. My gun means nothing on my hip except that it introduces one more option, I can go a lifetime without drawing it in anger, that's the plan.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  2. #247
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I can go a lifetime without drawing it in anger, that's the plan.
    Jiminy crickets! Remind me not to piss you off! I hope it takes more than anger for you to draw your pistol!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
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  3. #248
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale R. Hamilton View Post
    Interesting you should say that on this day Keith. Today they released the final critiques on the Columbine school shooting- the one WHERE 28 STUDENTS AND FACULTY WERE KILLED while the police force mustered their efforts outside. Nobody inside had a gun. So I guess on this day it was 28 in 650,000 chance of being killed.
    Question; in an active shooter situation like Columbine or the Pulse Night Club; once the good guy with the gun draws his or her weapon, how do the other good guys know which is the bad guy? How do the cops know? Are you trained to fire into a crowd and hit your target while all he77 is breaking loose? Likely not. You not only make yourself a target but you endanger police and innocent people while the cops they try to determine who the good guy is. Clearly, you have not thought this out. That doesn't surprise me.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  4. #249
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Jiminy crickets! Remind me not to piss you off! I hope it takes more than anger for you to draw your pistol!
    Seriously . . . ? You know what I meant. Don't break my balls. I am a good guy with a gun and one that knows it's a tool with a very limited usefulness in terms of a positive outcome. I prefer to have the option but would gladly give mine up if the laws were made stricter and federally.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  5. #250
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    ^ hahahha!!!, low hanging fruit!

    I cared a pistol in my youth. Ruger p-89dc

    But, I was young and didn't understand that much about the world!

    I have one pistol left a .22 Rugar Mark II. It is dissembled and locked in the gun case with my long guns.
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  6. #251
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    ^ hahahha!!!, low hanging fruit!

    I cared a pistol in my youth. Ruger p-89dc

    But, I was young and didn't understand that much about the world!

    I have one pistol left a .22 Rugar Mark II. It is dissembled and locked in the gun case with my long guns.
    LOL, my low hanging fruit belong to only one person and she wears them around her neck.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  7. #252
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    ^ hahahha!!!, low hanging fruit!

    I cared a pistol in my youth. Ruger p-89dc

    But, I was young and didn't understand that much about the world!

    I have one pistol left a .22 Rugar Mark II. It is dissembled and locked in the gun case with my long guns.
    Your pistol is lying to you? Does your car prevaricate as well?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  8. #253
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Your pistol is lying to you? Does your car prevaricate as well?
    D-

    (Spelling and grammar count) **** Flash Back to Washington's Mill Elementary******

    I've been lazy about my dyslexia and lack of typing skills today!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  9. #254
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    D-

    (Spelling and grammar count) **** Flash Back to Washington's Mill Elementary******

    I've been lazy about my dyslexia and lack of typing skills today!
    I know you know words & grammar well enough for me to be comfortable giving you a hard time! Not that I ever give anyone grief around here...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  10. #255
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    !!
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  11. #256
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Guns aside, these cell phone stun guns are absolutely stealthy.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01DU...Y8L&ref=plSrch

  12. #257
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    Baltimore school system has been had more money thrown at it than you could possibly believe. The $11 million referred to was withheld due to mismanagement.
    It's nice to have something to blame.. fix the management. The problem I mentioned is nationwide.

  13. #258
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Question; in an active shooter situation like Columbine or the Pulse Night Club; once the good guy with the gun draws his or her weapon, how do the other good guys know which is the bad guy? How do the cops know? Are you trained to fire into a crowd and hit your target while all he77 is breaking loose? Likely not. You not only make yourself a target but you endanger police and innocent people while the cops they try to determine who the good guy is. Clearly, you have not thought this out. That doesn't surprise me.

    McMike- Its going to be all over by the time the police show up and I might be dead by then. But then the shooter won't expect return fire will he? No I'm not trained to fire into a crowd- but I do have some fire discipline gleaned from 23 years service Army Special Forces.

  14. #259
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Lubys. Up the road. Guy executed many.

    Brave men rushed him only to be shot. Anyone with a gun could have stopped him as he walked around shooting unarmed people. That's why we changed the law. Violent crimes are prevented routinely by armed citizens. Little of it makes news.

  15. #260
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale R. Hamilton View Post
    McMike- Its going to be all over by the time the police show up and I might be dead by then. But then the shooter won't expect return fire will he? No I'm not trained to fire into a crowd- but I do have some fire discipline gleaned from 23 years service Army Special Forces.
    Oh lord, Dale just won the internet, he served in the military and that means he's automatically right and is an exemplary human being. Whatever.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  16. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Lubys. Up the road. Guy executed many.

    Brave men rushed him only to be shot. Anyone with a gun could have stopped him as he walked around shooting unarmed people. That's why we changed the law. Violent crimes are prevented routinely by armed citizens. Little of it makes news.
    BS, You would think in a state like Texas, that they would proudly report any and all stories that validate the overall and ignorant point of view. Sure it happens, guns save lives, but I've never been presented with any evidence to show me a significant benefit to firearm proliferation in our society. FWIW, I see that same tired stories, about the good guy with a gun, bandied about and recycled in discussions like this and on the gun forums I read. It's just not a significant justification. Sorry about your luck.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  17. #262
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    My carry at all times is an extra pair of hearing aid batteries......you never know!

  18. #263
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    An older man was huddled behind a table with his wife as the gunman walked around the room shooting people. He said, I've got to do something; he is going to kill us all. The gentleman stood up and rushed at the gunman. He was shot and fatally wounded. The wife went to her husband instead of taking the opportunity to escape. She was executed as she held her dying husband's head in her lap. The daughter testified that she had a clear and unobstructed shot at the gunman. She had cover and a place to steady her hand on the overturned table. She testified that it would have been a very easy shot. But her gun was in the car because bringing it to Lubys would have been illegal.

  19. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    An older man was huddled behind a table with his wife as the gunman walked around the room shooting people. He said, I've got to do something; he is going to kill us all. The gentleman stood up and rushed at the gunman. He was shot and fatally wounded. The wife went to her husband instead of taking the opportunity to escape. She was executed as she held her dying husband's head in her lap. The daughter testified that she had a clear and unobstructed shot at the gunman. She had cover and a place to steady her hand on the overturned table. She testified that it would have been a very easy shot. But her gun was in the car because bringing it to Lubys would have been illegal.
    A sad story indeed, and one instance, that took place 27 years ago, out of thousands of instances where guns were misused.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  20. #265
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    Sorry. Wanted to let you know that we did think it through. We had an open debate and decided to let law abiding citizens carry guns if they choose to so that they could protect themselves.

    Texas violent crime is way down since early 90s. Maybe correlated; maybe caused. Believing gun ownership decreases gun violence isn't ignorant or short-sighted. It's a different opinion than yours I suspect.

    As the facts move against those who don't like citizen carry, wll need to work together to enforce appropriate restrictions. E.g.for those guilty of a violent crime.

  21. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    BS, You would think in a state like Texas, that they would proudly report any and all stories that validate the overall and ignorant point of view. Sure it happens, guns save lives, but I've never been presented with any evidence to show me a significant benefit to firearm proliferation in our society. FWIW, I see that same tired stories, about the good guy with a gun, bandied about and recycled in discussions like this and on the gun forums I read. It's just not a significant justification. Sorry about your luck.
    Benefit-violent crime down. Now you have some evidence.

    Ignorant point of view? Be nice.

  22. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Oh lord, Dale just won the internet, he served in the military and that means he's automatically right and is an exemplary human being. Whatever.
    WTF? What he said was "but I do have some fire discipline gleaned from 23 years service Army Special Forces". How on earth to you get to what you said from that? I take it to mean that he's had some training - probably more than most - but nothing more than that.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  23. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    WTF? What he said was "but I do have some fire discipline gleaned from 23 years service Army Special Forces". How on earth to you get to what you said from that? I take it to mean that he's had some training - probably more than most - but nothing more than that.
    I disagree.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  24. #269
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    Default Re: your personal protection

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Benefit-violent crime down. Now you have some evidence.
    Violent crime is down significantly in New York and Boston, since the 90's, as well.. places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited... and it's a valid argument against a causative link.

    I automatically dismiss anecdotal evidence.... because it simply descends into dueling anecdotes, which is not informative of anything.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  25. #270
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    Ok. I think it is better to evaluate all evidence.

  26. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Violent crime is down significantly in New York and Boston, since the 90's, as well.. places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited... and it's a valid argument against a causative link.

    I automatically dismiss anecdotal evidence.... because it simply descends into dueling anecdotes, which is not informative of anything.
    And murder reaching new highs in Baltimore, located in Maryland which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.
    Ratus ratus bilgeous snipeous!

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  27. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    And murder reaching new highs in Baltimore, located in Maryland which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.
    You still donb't get the concept of those guns coming from other, less restrictive states. You do realize, that fact has a very large impact on the subject here? If not, that's ignorance or denial. I admit, state gun laws don't work. We need strong federal regulations, and all gun crimes should become the jurisdiction of the feds IMO.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  28. #273
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    Who said I don't get it? I was just factually countering Normans post.
    Ratus ratus bilgeous snipeous!

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
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  29. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Violent crime is down significantly in New York and Boston, since the 90's, as well.. places where the carrying of firearms is prohibited... and it's a valid argument against a causative link.

    I automatically dismiss anecdotal evidence.... because it simply descends into dueling anecdotes, which is not informative of anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    And murder reaching new highs in Baltimore, located in Maryland which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.
    True. More information is needed to make sense of either statistics.

    I live in NH. It is sometimes called the tailpipe of the country. Much of the pollution of the Midwest passes overhead and we get a lot of acid rain even though polluting industry in this state is quite minimal. We have to contend with what flows in from outside. Gun laws are much the same. To make sense of these statistics, we need to look at the neighboring states to see if either New York or Baltimore has a buffer making it more difficult to bring illegal weapons in. Better yet, let's look at Australia which is isolated by water. I believe their murder rates went down when guns were taken off the streets.

  30. #275
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    Hey! We stop a lot of the crap from the Midwest before it gets to you!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  31. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    We need to make it clear that responsible, trained folks (like posters here) who CC are not the issue.

    What is the issue are the thousands of people who've decided they need a gun for protection, go do the 2 week (or whatever minimal) training to get the CC permit required by their state, and then consider themselves all set to be the "good guy with the gun" and need never train with the gun again.

    I cannot go into details, but I have direct experience with 1,000's of guns being shipped back to the manufacturer with magazines still in them, many 100's with a round in the chamber & several hundred with not only a full mag, but a round in the chamber & the safety off. If they can do this, how good are their safety habits when carrying?
    Not sure if that's true. That numbers tell us that keeping a gun in the house ups the odds of someone in your circle is injured by a gun. Also that carrying a firearm actually increases your odds of being harmed by a gun.

    I suppose one could dig into the numbers and discover that there is a certain small % of owners/carriers - a subset defined by certain characteristics - that encounter/cause all the trouble. And that the much larger % of owners/carriers are truly LESS apt to be injured by a gun. Hypothetically... that's conceivable. But I'm not aware of any such research. Are you?
    David G
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  32. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    So...

    Phased Lock Loop & Mr. Wright -- did you read the study? Any thoughts to share?
    Anything yet?
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  33. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Not sure if that's true. That numbers tell us that keeping a gun in the house ups the odds of someone in your circle is injured by a gun. Also that carrying a firearm actually increases your odds of being harmed by a gun.

    I suppose one could dig into the numbers and discover that there is a certain small % of owners/carriers - a subset defined by certain characteristics - that encounter/cause all the trouble. And that the much larger % of owners/carriers are truly LESS apt to be injured by a gun. Hypothetically... that's conceivable. But I'm not aware of any such research. Are you?
    Nope - but (I realize it's anecdotal) the folks I know who conceal carry & are serious, responsible gun owners are very careful
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  34. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Hey! We stop a lot of the crap from the Midwest before it gets to you!
    Sorry and we thank you. In truth, I mean northern New England in general.

  35. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    I've been busy and I've been wondering whether I should respond, given your routine condescension. Two of my posts provide you with some of my response, but it's apparently not good enough for you, why should I do more? Tell you what, look up some of the articles by Garen Wintemute MD, MPH. Check out his bio, satisfy yourself that he satisfies your particular requirements on gun control. Maybe start with this piece:

    American Journal of Public Health, June 2010

    "FLAWS IN STUDY OF FIREARM POSSESSION AND RISK FOR ASSAULT"


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866589/
    Interesting - your prior responses have consisted of short snark, and cryptic one-liners... and you want to accujse me of being disrespectful.

    But at least you have come around to offering something substantive to bolster your notions. And for that I am glad.

    So I read Wintermute's critique. My first time thru, I was struck with some logical problems, but it was interesting enough to make me go back and read the ncbi abstract of the original. Back & forth I went, picking at the details, and examining the language & the logic.

    I was left with a feeling that Wintermute has missed the point on a few of his efforts at criticism, but that issues of study design were beyond the scope of the abstracts, and beyond what I'm willing to parse.

    I don't know if you've ever designed such a study. I have tried my hand at it a few times at both the undergraduate and graduate levels. It's not easy, and the details matter. So... I thought... Wintermute might have a relevant point about how the study might have been designed better. But it wasn't obvious - barring deeper analysis - how. And if he was right on the facts, would it be relevant to the question being studied? Have you drilled deep enough to find some element of study design that would be a key to rebutting the studies conclusions? What was it?

    So then I went to the response to Wintermute from Branas, et. al.

    And they said basically and convincingly what I had thought. Wintermute was either incorrect, or correct but off-point. But they didn't offer any clarity about the issue of study design... just bald assertions of it's rectitude.

    So with that one question left open for further exporation, if it seems justified, and with some interesting suggestions from Wintermute about other questions that could be addressed, and slightly different perspectives of approach that might be enlightening... I'd have to call the the Wintermute effort a mighty swing, and a foul tip.

    You got more? So far, I'll stand with Branas, et. al.
    Last edited by David G; 01-14-2018 at 09:33 AM.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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