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Thread: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

  1. #1
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    Question Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Or, to paraphrase Arlo Guthrie, some third possibility that hasn’t occurred to me? I apologize for asking folks to revisit a topic you’ve covered pretty thoroughly, but even after reading through a bunch of old threads, I still can’t decide. (Which probably means it will be fine either way.) I’m a long time sea kayaker and, at 66, I’m finding that I can’t paddle for long before my legs cramp up. Rowing our little 8 foot dinghy is much more comfortable, but not very satisfying - I don’t see it as an alternative to my kayak. So I’m thinking of building a rowboat, and my wish list, more or less in order of priority, is: quick and easy to build; decent rowing performance and seaworthy enough to handle some light chop; lightweight (car top or pick-up bed would be nice, but trailering is ok); and finally the option to occasionally bring my wife along (I can sometimes convince her to come out in the dinghy, and I should mention that our combined weight, plus lunch, is under 300 pounds - for now at least).

    Teal is tempting for her seemingly very quick build, and the Bolger/Payson pedigree is appealing. On the other hand, maybe a lot has been learned about building “instant boats” since she was designed. Among the plethora flat bottomed rowing skiff designs, Michael Storer’s stands out because his stated design criteria match mine almost perfectly. I think I understand the trade offs in terms of greater capacity vs ease of handling on shore, but I don’t have a sense of relative performance, or just how much more time consuming a build the Storer boat would be.

    Thanks for your patience!
    Dean

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    MSD hands down if it's to carry two on occasion. If Bolger for a solo rower, then the Gloucester Light Dory would be a better choice. A third choice very similar to the MSD is Redmond's Whisp. I have one of those and it rows very nicely, one or two on board. Whichever way you go, cartopping will get old very quickly. Those little aluminum trailers are just the thing for these sorts of boats.

    Here's a Whisp. (Not mine)

    -Dave

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    You should never encourage this lot to suggest an alternative. I have an Adirondack Guideboat and an obvious prejudice in favor of the type, so I will recommend it even if you really do want something with more room and initial stability. For an oar an gunnel boat, it is hard to beat as demonstrated by any number of Blackburn challenge victories.

    I would also highly recommend Gib Ehterige's Christophers Dory and Clinton chases Drake.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-a-Large-Rower Having linked to Christophers Dory, the Designs by Flo-Mo are also worth considering.
    Drake 17 or 19 http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...86715-Drake-19
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    http://gentrycustomboats.com/Whitehallpage.html

    Quick to build, going to be easier to cartop then just about anything made of solid wood. If you want super quick to build Teal done cheap out of home improvement store wood could be OK as a gateway boat. A tiny bit more effort gets you a lot nicer. It's all good. Choice comes down to personality.

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    The Teal was primarily meant to be a quick and inexpensive way to get on the water - mostly under sail. It can be paddled or rowed.
    Bolger certainly had other offerings that might suit you better. June Bug, for example.

    Storer's boat is meant just for rowing, but still simple to build. She'd likely be far better at rowing than the Teal (and June Bug). Especially if the wife were to come along. Michael's plans are first rate.

    There are many, many other options however. Check out Duckwork's list, here: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/p...llingboats.htm

    Do check out Platt Monfort's skin-on-frame boats for truly ultralight rowboats. http://gaboats.com
    And, sailnstink is clearly gifted . . . .
    Sorry, Mik!
    Last edited by DGentry; 01-04-2018 at 08:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    You should never encourage this lot to suggest an alternative. I have an Adirondack Guideboat and an obvious prejudice in favor of the type, so I will recommend it even if you really do want something with more room and initial stability. For an oar an gunnel boat, it is hard to beat as demonstrated by any number of Blackburn challenge victories.

    I would also highly recommend Gib Ehterige's Christophers Dory and Clinton chases Drake.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-a-Large-Rower Having linked to Christophers Dory, the Designs by Flo-Mo are also worth considering.
    Drake 17 or 19 http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...86715-Drake-19
    I don't think my Drake would fit based on his interest in Instant boats but my Caravelle would do very nicely.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Wow, thanks everyone! I should have said in my original post, that Dave Gentry's Whitehall is very much in the running. I built his Boardyak last winter, so I'm familiar with the process. I guess what I should have asked is, IF I go with a plywood boat, should it be the Teal or the MSD, and the resounding answer seems to be: NOT the Teal, so it's out. Mr. Chase is correct that Drake is too ambitious for me. I knew about the Echo Bay, but not the Caravelle, which looks really sweet. As Dave pointed out, there are many, many choices, even after limiting myself to flat bottom, single chine designs. How to choose? One difference seems to be construction method - epoxy fillet vs. chine log. I don't have strong feelings about that, but I know that others do! Part of the appeal of the MSD is that it's less of a compromise - no provision for sailing or an outboard. So all input is welcome, but I recognize that I can't go too far wrong, as long it's a boat.

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    d-

    I'd be happy to talk with you. I have built and rowed all the boats you are considering. Obviously I am partial to mine, but I don't ever put someone in one of my boats unless I know it is the best choice for their needs. Let's chat. Can also talk pros and cons of S&G vs screw and glue/chine log construction.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    What I like about using a chine log is that it gives me a nice fair surface and edge to plank to and it's nicer to work with wood than with epoxy.

    The fillet would be as solid, and it would be a bit lighter. Also it would never be a joint that could open up.

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Here's another one for the mix. Not such a simple shape but available as a stitch and glue kit.
    Pygmy's Wineglass Wherry.

    -Dave

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    I am surprised nobody has mentioned John Welsford's Seagull yet http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/seagull/. It is in the flat bottom, straight sides family that you are looking at, and in my opinion it is better looking than the MSD rowboat. Looks like the transom is out of the water, making it more optimized for rowing than motoring.

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    What I like about using a chine log is that it gives me a nice fair surface and edge to plank to and it's nicer to work with wood than with epoxy.

    The fillet would be as solid, and it would be a bit lighter. Also it would never be a joint that could open up.
    The trade off between fillets and logs is the relative difficulty involved in planing rolling bevels and cleaning up fillets. if the angle between two surfaces is close to a right angle, the chine log is easy to use. If there is a shallow angle, a log is difficult to shape.

    There is also the debate: Whether to glass or not to glass, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the itch and bother of outrageous fiberglass, or to take arms against a sea of criticisms, skip the nasty cloth and just thicken the spooge with milled cotton fibers? To answer this I refer to a simple graphic:
    fillet.jpg
    This illustrates how a fillet with the same radius looks as the angle between the panels changes. For a sharp angled fillet, there is a lot of contact area so the fillet will be strong without using glass tape. As the angle gets obtuse, as in the orange and red areas, there just isn't much material there, so a much larger fillet is needed. As the angle flattens out, you have a butt joint that needs more support than an epoxy fillet alone can provide. In the middle where the angle is close to perpendicular, a chine log is easy to make.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Thanks, that's very generous of you! Should I call the number on your web site?

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    The trade off between fillets and logs is the relative difficulty involved in planing rolling bevels and cleaning up fillets. if the angle between two surfaces is close to a right angle, the chine log is easy to use. If there is a shallow angle, a log is difficult to shape.

    There is also the debate: Whether to glass or not to glass, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the itch and bother of outrageous fiberglass, or to take arms against a sea of criticisms, skip the nasty cloth and just thicken the spooge with milled cotton fibers? To answer this I refer to a simple graphic:
    fillet.jpg
    This illustrates how a fillet with the same radius looks as the angle between the panels changes. For a sharp angled fillet, there is a lot of contact area so the fillet will be strong without using glass tape. As the angle gets obtuse, as in the orange and red areas, there just isn't much material there, so a much larger fillet is needed. As the angle flattens out, you have a butt joint that needs more support than an epoxy fillet alone can provide. In the middle where the angle is close to perpendicular, a chine log is easy to make.
    Fantastical explained with that graphic, thanks

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    What I like about using a chine log is that it gives me a nice fair surface and edge to plank to and it's nicer to work with wood than with epoxy.

    The fillet would be as solid, and it would be a bit lighter. Also it would never be a joint that could open up.
    The fillet would not be lighter necessarily. Cloth is on the outside of the chine log joint to help seal.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Epilogue: As soon as I started thinking about numbers, as opposed to just dreaming about designs, I realized that I didn't have the time, space or money to build a boat this winter. I was starting to reconsider Teal as a stop-gap, when a Bolger "Cartopper" popped up on Craigs List! Not a design I was considering, but it should serve as least as well as Teal while I figure out what I really want, and clean out my basement. It was dirt cheap, as a result of staying too long on the beach and filling up with sand and ice, so I'll no doubt be be posting on the repair forum. Many thanks for all the great advice! (BTW, the ice in the fore ground of the photo was scooped out of the boat!)
    cartooper_ice.jpg

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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Congratulations on your acquisition! Did your new friend come with a sailing rig? I've been sailing a Teal since 1982 with the sail I bought while building her, made by Bohndell, the sailmaker recommended by Payson in his book on building a Bolger Instant Boat.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Bolger ‘Teal’ or Storer ‘MSD Rowing Skiff’?

    Thanks Chris.The boat did come with a sail a boom and a rudder - but no mast! The previous owner moved around quite a bit and it was lost somewhere along the line. What I have doesn't seem to match either of the rigs on Bolger's plans. The sail is triangular with metal clips on both the luff and the foot and a matching track on the boom. I'm wondering if it originally came from some other boat. Do you have the lug sail or the sprit sail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Noto View Post
    Congratulations on your acquisition! Did your new friend come with a sailing rig? I've been sailing a Teal since 1982 with the sail I bought while building her, made by Bohndell, the sailmaker recommended by Payson in his book on building a Bolger Instant Boat.

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