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Thread: Dutch Tjotters

  1. #1
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Perhaps the Tjotter should become The National Boat of The Netherlands

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Are these Tjotters,too?
    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    Is there a size range?
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    Are these Tjotters,too?
    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    Is there a size range?
    R
    There are lots of different hull forms. That top one is a botter with round bow and round stern on a smaller hull.

    The other is different with the square stern. Some have straight raking stems some straight stern posts with a sharper stern.
    This is a Hoogaars with straight stem and sternpost


    The lemsteraak is similar to a botter with round bow and stern, but may be longer and built for a different purpose.

    The hengst has a straight stem and round stern
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Had the pleasure of examining a number of these types years ago at the Maritime Museum in Amsterdam which has a government subsidized marina for classic boats and a sort of "community boatyard" for their maintenance. They were amazingly well maintained and beautifully embellished. What struck me the most was the relatively large size of their scantlings compared to what we know in boats of the same size. They look a bit dumpy, but they certainly seem to sail well, particularly in the thin waters of the lowlands.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Pretty sure my first pic is at Piersma in Heeg.
    The second is around the corner and across the canal at the end of De Syl.
    We were having beers and bitterbollen, watching most of the world go past.

    This is also at Piersma.
    image.jpg

    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    The Dutch love their traditional boats. Every village or community had their special design. Tjotters were special, pleasure boats but most were developed from fishing boats. The Lemsteraak or Lemmer Aak above was the "Aak" or barge from Lemmer in Friesland, close to Heeg where you see the Tjotters. This is a very special place to sail and these boats sail beautifully. You can sail from a lake to the river, through a canal and then onto the seas. I've seen these boats sail up to a bridge, strike their sails, lower their mast and coast under, then back to full sail on the other side without missing a beat. These boats are perfectly adapted to their waters.

    Their wooden boats are especially prized and it is rare to see one outside of the Netherlands. I asked to buy a "Better" that was for sale years ago but they politely declined as they wanted to keep the old ""girl" in Friesland. Their old oak bottomed boats would rot in the new fresh waters of the new Ijselmeer, what was once the tidal Zeider Zee. They put their considerable boatbuilding skill into building hulls of iron and then steel. The craftsmanship that goes into making a steel hull with compound bends is incredible. You would swear these boats are made of wood.

    These designs may be old but have features we are once again discovering. In the above picture of the Lemsteraak, look at the bow section ahead of the modern bow thruster. It is their version of a surface piercing bow. They call this section that extends forward under the water the "luffbiter", the spelling is wrong, but it bites into the water and gives the bow some "bite" in the water. It really works well. Their old leeboards, aren't just boards but are foils, and were shaped like wings before we had wing designs. Compare their sail design to a modern Volvo ocean racer and you will see a very similar shape. Theirs is more optimized for low end power with the mainsail being loose footed. I could go on, but don't think of these boats as being quaint, they are cutting edge design in my view.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    Are these Tjotters,too?
    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    Is there a size range?
    R
    The first one is a "boeier" and the second one a "grundel".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    Pretty sure my first pic is at Piersma in Heeg.
    The second is around the corner and across the canal at the end of De Syl.
    We were having beers and bitterbollen, watching most of the world go past.

    This is also at Piersma.
    image.jpg

    R
    Probably a Tjotter.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Tjotters range from 4 to 5,5 m, used for all kind of transport, usually completely in varnished oak. Replaced by scows with spritsail or gaff.
    Grundels now ussually in steel, 6 to 10m, allways with cabins, built for comfort, not speed.
    Boeiers for human transport, allways with cabin, oak like tjotter. Boats with round leeboard for protected water.
    Lemster Aak was a fish buyers vessel, fast, some used to go to London with live eel in bun. Now for yachting with nouveaux riche, new boats are built often in fisherman style with enormous rigs. It allways takes some time before race result are published, because the laywers have the final word.
    Hengst and Hoogaars fishing boats. Deep and narrow leeboards indicate more open water.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Thank you for this post. really look forward to checking out the Maritime Museum in late March and catching on to these designs in the shape of clogs.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    My Dutch is not too good, but I really enjoyed watching the sailing....Those little fat things move along pretty well.......

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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    FF, where is the best maritime museum in Holland to learn more about traditional Dutch craft? I'll be in Dordrecht soon, but willing to travel. There are some great boats around Dordrecht, big and small, also some tugs. I'll pull out some pics.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by FF View Post
    Grundels now ussually in steel, 6 to 10m, allways with cabins, built for comfort, not speed.
    I have found a very few examples of small Grundels without cabins. "There's always an exception," apparently.
    grundel 2.jpg

    Grundel_not a punter but close.jpg
    Or, perhaps these are something else? They do resemble zeepunters, except for the sterns.

    I plan to build a couple of the smaller boat types this year, and I hope to see some of the Netherlands maritime museums, too.

    FF - can you explain the differences between a tjotter and a friese jacht?

    Dave Gentry
    Last edited by DGentry; 01-12-2018 at 11:12 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by gilberj View Post
    My Dutch is not too good, but I really enjoyed watching the sailing....Those little fat things move along pretty well.......
    That sounded like Fries/Frisian to me.
    I understand a little bit from my mom's family.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    FF, where is the best maritime museum in Holland to learn more about traditional Dutch craft? I'll be in Dordrecht soon, but willing to travel. There are some great boats around Dordrecht, big and small, also some tugs. I'll pull out some pics.
    We went here
    http://friesscheepvaartmuseum.nl

    Small,but pleasant


    If you are travelling anyway,De Rat in Ijlst (Drylst)is well worth it.


    R
    Last edited by Ron Williamson; 01-05-2018 at 07:58 PM.
    Sleep with one eye open.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemsteraak View Post
    The Dutch love their traditional boats. Every village or community had their special design. Tjotters were special, pleasure boats but most were developed from fishing boats. The Lemsteraak or Lemmer Aak above was the "Aak" or barge from Lemmer in Friesland, close to Heeg where you see the Tjotters. This is a very special place to sail and these boats sail beautifully. You can sail from a lake to the river, through a canal and then onto the seas. I've seen these boats sail up to a bridge, strike their sails, lower their mast and coast under, then back to full sail on the other side without missing a beat. These boats are perfectly adapted to their waters.

    Their wooden boats are especially prized and it is rare to see one outside of the Netherlands. I asked to buy a "Better" that was for sale years ago but they politely declined as they wanted to keep the old ""girl" in Friesland. Their old oak bottomed boats would rot in the new fresh waters of the new Ijselmeer, what was once the tidal Zeider Zee. They put their considerable boatbuilding skill into building hulls of iron and then steel. The craftsmanship that goes into making a steel hull with compound bends is incredible. You would swear these boats are made of wood.

    These designs may be old but have features we are once again discovering. In the above picture of the Lemsteraak, look at the bow section ahead of the modern bow thruster. It is their version of a surface piercing bow. They call this section that extends forward under the water the "luffbiter", the spelling is wrong, but it bites into the water and gives the bow some "bite" in the water. It really works well. Their old leeboards, aren't just boards but are foils, and were shaped like wings before we had wing designs. Compare their sail design to a modern Volvo ocean racer and you will see a very similar shape. Theirs is more optimized for low end power with the mainsail being loose footed. I could go on, but don't think of these boats as being quaint, they are cutting edge design in my view.
    I can only agree with that.


    I raced once against a new steel botter, no way I could keep up. They are fast and can go where my yacht would run aground. They sail until the leebord starts moving up from hitting the ground, only then go around.
    Modern design ? Lots of those bows look a lot like the scow Bows.


    If necessary, I can translate Dutch into English.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    We went here
    http://friesscheepvaartmuseum.nl

    Small,but pleasant


    If you are travelling anyway,De Rat in Ijlst (Drylst)is well worth it.


    R
    Thanks!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    fries jacht voor wbf.jpg Still wrestling with posting but: 1)Tjotters and Fries Jacht very similar. Fries Jacht has a heavy rubbing strake, called 'berghout', is bigger then Tjotter. 2) The Grundel is also sometimes open in oak but the one on the picture is the only one I know and open: Willem took her to England and The Great Glen Raid. I'll try some more
    Last edited by FF; 01-06-2018 at 01:02 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    You will want to visit the http://www.zuiderzeemuseum.nl/de/10/home/ in Enkhuisen which has a nice collection of these craft. As I recall the botter was the smallest a noncabin version of the boier with unstayed mast. I recall once sailing on a blazer, ( big North Sea capabble boat) alongside a modern similar sized keel craft in the Ijsellmeer on a F5 day. Modern boat had a reef turned in, heeling a bunch and getting spray doused. We were as fast or faster, just tromping a wicked choppy sea down, pretty flat and spray less. If you can find them Peter Dorleijn did some wonderful books on these craft and their fishery. Drawings so good you don't need Dutch.
    Ben Fuller
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Here you can compare a tjotter and a Fries Jacht: Probably summer rigs, considering the sailareas. In Heeg Pier Piersma attends to many boats like this, and most of them are stored in a boathouse with lowered mast to protect the varnish. These boats sail quite well with their big rigs, but it makes them vulnerable as well: For stability they rely mostly on their beam.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    And the weekend of 5 and 6 may we are organising a small boat rendezvous, the ' Punterkamp' in Giethoorn, the Netherlands. Most of us will come with our own oar-and-sail boats, in my case my lugger ' Lucia', but my fellow organiser happens to own a Fries Jacht!!!! 150 years old and still in the family. He just produced a book about it and will be happy to have you aboard. At the Punterkamp we have also fife punters, basic accomodation, a campsite with large tipis, and I will do the cooking with help of some volunteers who will prepare the veggie stuf, while I will do something with meat for the Silent Majority. Probably grey peas with onions and smoked bacon, what they call here ' Captains Dinner". We will provide food, wine, beer, what we need for a nominal fee and I would really like to meet Forumites here. You can book with me, but I will be away next week and offline. Then I will find a few pictures off the last time we had this kamp.

    This thread does something to me: I can post images now, I studied our own boats more in detail then I have for a very long time, being allways busy with Oselvars, Whitehalls, English Cutters,foreign craft, it makes me more patriotic, hopefully a better person. Thanks, folks!

  22. #22
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Some fishing with botter.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TbQECyRUqc


    My boat was used to fish shrimp whit a “Kor” just like in the video. The boat had only one mast and was used as a hobby shrimping boat on the Belgian coast. Hobby fishing but really intense.
    An other lucrative hobby the owner before me had was to buy expensive stuff in Transit ( no tax ) and sell it in Gent the same evening. He had a secret door at the bottom of the “stores” locker who was leaded by the customs each day. No doubt they ware involved and had their percentage.


    Some envy fellow boater with connections made an end to the transit business.
    Boat was confiscated and it took a lot of bribery to get it back to the owners.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by FF View Post
    And the weekend of 5 and 6 may we are organising a small boat rendezvous, the ' Punterkamp' in Giethoorn, the Netherlands.
    I hope to be there. Thanks for the info about Friese Jachts, too. Are the rudder shapes indicative of each type?

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    You will want to visit the http://www.zuiderzeemuseum.nl/de/10/home/ in Enkhuisen which has a nice collection of these craft. As I recall the botter was the smallest a noncabin version of the boier with unstayed mast. I recall once sailing on a blazer, ( big North Sea capabble boat) alongside a modern similar sized keel craft in the Ijsellmeer on a F5 day. Modern boat had a reef turned in, heeling a bunch and getting spray doused. We were as fast or faster, just tromping a wicked choppy sea down, pretty flat and spray less. If you can find them Peter Dorleijn did some wonderful books on these craft and their fishery. Drawings so good you don't need Dutch.

    I can't believe that I forgot to mention the zuiderzeemuseum.
    We stayed at Het Roode Hert (The Red Hart/Stag), circa 1580 with really scary stairs.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    I am away till friday, library is home, just wifi

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Dutch Tjotters

    Broken link
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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