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Thread: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Zincs often do more harm than good, especially to wooden boats. I'd keep one on the prop or shaft and leave it at that. A zinc won't do much for fasteners as they are isolated. All it will do is induce a current in the water between the fastener and the zinc and some of that will go through the wood leading to electrolytic damage. Very bad!

    Much more important is a galvanic isolator on the shore power ground circuit. That screw looks to have quite a bit of life left. I think you should be very happy.
    Zinc is the sacrificial anode. It will not hurt his boat. That screw is pink because it is reacting to electrolytic conditions with no sacrifical anode.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Glad the survey turned out well... Pretty color, easily maintained deck and house. Stanchions, pulpit, and pushpit should keep you safe. You'll have great fun as its new caretaker. Rigging OK? Congrats!

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    There is a zinc on the prop shaft today but it's certainly possible that over her 70 year history that there always wasn't one there. The screws were not a big problem to remove and went back in tight so hopefully they'll be good for another decade.

    Rigging looks OK - or at least nothing was pointed out as an issue to me (I haven't received the actual report yet). I found receipts on-board for a variety of work done to her between 2012 and 2015, including mast servicing including new spreaders and painting. Based on the amount of money spent in that period (sails, engine, painting, etc.) if anything was suspect it was probably addressed but one never knows for sure.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    The bilge pump and wiring are the most probable source of a problem regarding galvanic erosion.

  5. #75
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Zinc is the sacrificial anode. It will not hurt his boat. That screw is pink because it is reacting to electrolytic conditions with no sacrifical anode.
    How will the zinc help the screws, which are somewhat isolated by the wood of the hull? Where would you install it to make it effective for these fasteners?

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    I'm certainly no expert on galvanic corrosion, but I'd suggest all the screws are sitting in a wonderful conductor known as salt water.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Zinc is the sacrificial anode. It will not hurt his boat. That screw is pink because it is reacting to electrolytic conditions with no sacrifical anode.
    Too much zinc WILL hurt a wood boat. It will hurt the WOOD.
    This is where several coats of red lead or (gasp) epoxy on the bare wood will help insulate the hull fastenings from the copper (or gasp, tin),in anti fouling.
    Just changing the location of the boat to a new marina/moorage will change the corrosion/electrohoohaw song.
    Keep the zincs to a minimum, be my advice .
    Nice lookin boat.
    bruce

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    If fasteners are pink and going away there isn't to much zinc on the boat. Additionally signs of delignification can be seen around bolts and other penetrating hardware if there has been a problem. Of the countless wooden boats I repaired only a few suffered from delignification.

    The damage from hydroxy ions only occurs inside the boat in wet areas of the bilge.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    How will the zinc help the screws, which are somewhat isolated by the wood of the hull? Where would you install it to make it effective for these fasteners?

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
    I think there is a problem with the idea that a wooden hull makes a good electrical insulator. A dry boat might, but planks soaked in salt water are conductors, so the fasteners are all bonded together emerged in an electrolytic solution.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    In any case, should I be concerned about the spots where they scraped off the bottom paint to expose a bung and extract a screw? They replugged after replacing the screws, but of course the plug and area around it are bare wood.

    While I'm at it - the next time I need to do bottom paint, can I just slap another coat on what is there? How many coats is too many? And once you hit that point, what's the process for stripping and repainting? It seems like the wood will be pretty wet for weeks so is the bottom paint tolerant of going over damp wood? You don't want it to totally dry out, right?

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Definitely repaint the spots. Usually, pressure washing followed by a quick sanding on rough spots will prepare the surface. The boat can get launched immediately after touching up the spots - it'll still dry.

    Others may disagree.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Anti fouling paint is a whole subject in itself. Hard or soft. Ablative or something else I've forgotten. Some wear off through the season, other stay put but leach their chemicals out.mso e you can scrub or polish, others not so much. Very few work very well, except occasionally in favourable conditions. First step is probably to find out what sort of paint was used last. She's not a racing machine, you can probably build up quite a thickness, and live with some rough edges without losing sleep over it.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    In Seattle you have the opportunity to moor her in fresh water. Each trip to salt water will pretty much sluff off the green stuff. Keep her moving and the salt water critters can't catch up. Just keep fresh water out of the bilge. A small marina or houseboat moorage might make it less likely that there's underwater currents that move through your boat on their way to the electrical source. A friend's boat - kept at Shilshole - had major delignification. He saved her, but not without financial trauma.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    +1 on the recommendation to not over zinc the boat. I once installed two round zincs on the bronze pintles on my
    rudder.- 42’ schooner. 6 months latter pulled the boat for spring maintenance - in Everett- and found nasty little heads of copperish corrosion growing on top off all the bungs/fittings around the aft end of the hull. Pulled one of the zincs off and never saw this phenomena again. So keep it zinked. Just don’t fall for the ‘more is better’ argument. It isn’t.

    also, maybe you found this out by now, Everett is likely the only place you will find moorage without a long waiting list. Also, If you wait till spring, open slips get really scarce around the Sound.

    if you go behind the locks, e,g. Into lake Union, you’ll probably feel very trapped in short order. It’s a real hassle to lock in and out into the sSound when you want to go sailing. Often requiring 1-2 hr wait to get out the locks. Forget any thought of summer evening sails. Isn’t going happen in the ship channel with your size boat. Also you will need to navigate and wait for three bridges to open and close if you moor in Lake Union. We tied up in Fisherman’s Terminal for a year because it was cheaper. Trapped between the locks and the bridge, we never moved. never again!

    lots of places to explore, once you are able to access salt water.

    Good luck. Nice looking vessel!

    glenn
    Last edited by Glenn.brooks; 02-13-2018 at 03:38 AM.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    I think there is a problem with the idea that a wooden hull makes a good electrical insulator. A dry boat might, but planks soaked in salt water are conductors, so the fasteners are all bonded together emerged in an electrolytic solution.
    I understand that wood, especially on a planked hull, is not that great of an electrical insulator due to soaking up the salt water. So yes, those fasteners are emerged in an electrolytic solution. However, what other metal are they in contact with? And again, if you need syncs to protect fasteners from planks to frames, where would those zincs be installed? I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I understand that wood, especially on a planked hull, is not that great of an electrical insulator due to soaking up the salt water. So yes, those fasteners are emerged in an electrolytic solution. However, what other metal are they in contact with? And again, if you need syncs to protect fasteners from planks to frames, where would those zincs be installed? I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.
    Consider that lots of boats use copper anti-fouling paint that is also conductive. In this case the entire shell of the boat is somewhat conductive (and I admit to never measuring the resistance of copper paint or saturated boards), because of that everything is bonded so I don't see that it matters to much where the zinc is placed. On boats with iron keels I would put one on the edge of the iron and touching the copper paint.

    This is the best paper I could find on the topic. It probably should be a post all of it's own. http://www.mcclavemarine.com/text%20...oden.Boats.pdf
    Last edited by navydog; 02-13-2018 at 12:07 PM.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn.brooks View Post

    if you go behind the locks, e,g. Into lake Union, you’ll probably feel very trapped in short order. It’s a real hassle to lock in and out into the sSound when you want to go sailing. Often requiring 1-2 hr wait to get out the locks. Forget any thought of summer evening sails. Isn’t going happen in the ship channel with your size boat. Also you will need to navigate and wait for three bridges to open and close if you moor in Lake Union. We tied up in Fisherman’s Terminal for a year because it was cheaper. Trapped between the locks and the bridge, we never moved. never again!

    glenn
    I can see that keeping a 42ft schooner at Thunderbird would not offer many summer evening sails; getting out on the sound is a lot of overhead for a few hour sail. But a smaller boat works pretty well in Lake Union.... There's generally a nice northerly between 4 and 8 PM (that is often not present elsewhere) and you certainly get boat handling experience - especially on Tuesday evenings! What you don't get is long tacks.

    I was lucky enough to be able to tie up next to my houseboat in Lake Union, which made the trip between the house and the boat for winter maintenance, repairs, or projects the shortest it can be. My mast was less than 41 feet, so the only bridge I had to raise was the Fremont. When we went traveling we usually tried to schedule the lock transit in the late evening, tie up at Shilshole, and wait for the ebb. Always got the small locks, sometimes the only boat in there. So for us and the boat, it worked pretty well.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    I'll be keeping her on Lake Washington to start - only 10 min from home, making it easy to work on her (interior needs a lot of help) and will also be conducive to getting more experience in the water with minimum fuss and overhead. I think there's enough water to keep me busy for a while with the occasional weekender through the locks and out into the Sound when I'm ready. Her mast is over 40' (I think I remember seeing 42' 9" but I think that's to the cabin top on the plans).

    With that mast height, just getting from the lake (south of the I-90 floating bridge) to the sound will be a lengthy process - going around the backside of Mercer Island, under Montlake Ave bridge (wait), Freemont bridge (wait), then probably Ballard bridge (chart says 46' at center - wait), then locks - more waiting. I figure next year I'll probably want to move her to the Sound.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Ah yes, the Dreaded Locks..... Don't forget the railroad bridge west of the locks - clearance depends on tide. An overnight at Shilshole provides an opportunity to take on fuel and crew. If you can avoid it,never transit eastward through the locks late on a sunny Sunday afternoon. It doesn't take too many inebriated boat owners to make keeping station in current a true hazard.

    Also, on the way out when the RR bridge is down, traffic puts you in the large locks and they're letting lots of water out of the lakes, I found turning left immediately after leaving the large locks gets you out of the current and boat streams so that you can circle. Most power boaters won't recognize that you need to be in the right place to turn quickly under those circumstances

    I don't know if they still do it, but late at night (after 10?) the bridge tender moved from bridge to bridge responding to radio requests. If they knew you were heading for the Sound, they were at each bridge waiting for your horn.

    I have plans drawn by Garden that show re-rigging the sistership to my 35' Seaborn/Blanchard to a masthead sloop. She was kept on Lake Washington at the time and the mast was shortened just enough to get under the bridges, which I think was the point. My boat also has a similar shortened rig.
    Last edited by bvv; 02-13-2018 at 09:10 PM.

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