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Thread: 1949 Alden Malabar Jr. "Nixie"

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Zincs often do more harm than good, especially to wooden boats. I'd keep one on the prop or shaft and leave it at that. A zinc won't do much for fasteners as they are isolated. All it will do is induce a current in the water between the fastener and the zinc and some of that will go through the wood leading to electrolytic damage. Very bad!

    Much more important is a galvanic isolator on the shore power ground circuit. That screw looks to have quite a bit of life left. I think you should be very happy.
    Zinc is the sacrificial anode. It will not hurt his boat. That screw is pink because it is reacting to electrolytic conditions with no sacrifical anode.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Glad the survey turned out well... Pretty color, easily maintained deck and house. Stanchions, pulpit, and pushpit should keep you safe. You'll have great fun as its new caretaker. Rigging OK? Congrats!

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    There is a zinc on the prop shaft today but it's certainly possible that over her 70 year history that there always wasn't one there. The screws were not a big problem to remove and went back in tight so hopefully they'll be good for another decade.

    Rigging looks OK - or at least nothing was pointed out as an issue to me (I haven't received the actual report yet). I found receipts on-board for a variety of work done to her between 2012 and 2015, including mast servicing including new spreaders and painting. Based on the amount of money spent in that period (sails, engine, painting, etc.) if anything was suspect it was probably addressed but one never knows for sure.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    The bilge pump and wiring are the most probable source of a problem regarding galvanic erosion.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Zinc is the sacrificial anode. It will not hurt his boat. That screw is pink because it is reacting to electrolytic conditions with no sacrifical anode.
    How will the zinc help the screws, which are somewhat isolated by the wood of the hull? Where would you install it to make it effective for these fasteners?

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    I'm certainly no expert on galvanic corrosion, but I'd suggest all the screws are sitting in a wonderful conductor known as salt water.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Zinc is the sacrificial anode. It will not hurt his boat. That screw is pink because it is reacting to electrolytic conditions with no sacrifical anode.
    Too much zinc WILL hurt a wood boat. It will hurt the WOOD.
    This is where several coats of red lead or (gasp) epoxy on the bare wood will help insulate the hull fastenings from the copper (or gasp, tin),in anti fouling.
    Just changing the location of the boat to a new marina/moorage will change the corrosion/electrohoohaw song.
    Keep the zincs to a minimum, be my advice .
    Nice lookin boat.
    bruce

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    If fasteners are pink and going away there isn't to much zinc on the boat. Additionally signs of delignification can be seen around bolts and other penetrating hardware if there has been a problem. Of the countless wooden boats I repaired only a few suffered from delignification.

    The damage from hydroxy ions only occurs inside the boat in wet areas of the bilge.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    How will the zinc help the screws, which are somewhat isolated by the wood of the hull? Where would you install it to make it effective for these fasteners?

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
    I think there is a problem with the idea that a wooden hull makes a good electrical insulator. A dry boat might, but planks soaked in salt water are conductors, so the fasteners are all bonded together emerged in an electrolytic solution.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    In any case, should I be concerned about the spots where they scraped off the bottom paint to expose a bung and extract a screw? They replugged after replacing the screws, but of course the plug and area around it are bare wood.

    While I'm at it - the next time I need to do bottom paint, can I just slap another coat on what is there? How many coats is too many? And once you hit that point, what's the process for stripping and repainting? It seems like the wood will be pretty wet for weeks so is the bottom paint tolerant of going over damp wood? You don't want it to totally dry out, right?

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Definitely repaint the spots. Usually, pressure washing followed by a quick sanding on rough spots will prepare the surface. The boat can get launched immediately after touching up the spots - it'll still dry.

    Others may disagree.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Anti fouling paint is a whole subject in itself. Hard or soft. Ablative or something else I've forgotten. Some wear off through the season, other stay put but leach their chemicals out.mso e you can scrub or polish, others not so much. Very few work very well, except occasionally in favourable conditions. First step is probably to find out what sort of paint was used last. She's not a racing machine, you can probably build up quite a thickness, and live with some rough edges without losing sleep over it.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    In Seattle you have the opportunity to moor her in fresh water. Each trip to salt water will pretty much sluff off the green stuff. Keep her moving and the salt water critters can't catch up. Just keep fresh water out of the bilge. A small marina or houseboat moorage might make it less likely that there's underwater currents that move through your boat on their way to the electrical source. A friend's boat - kept at Shilshole - had major delignification. He saved her, but not without financial trauma.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    +1 on the recommendation to not over zinc the boat. I once installed two round zincs on the bronze pintles on my
    rudder.- 42’ schooner. 6 months latter pulled the boat for spring maintenance - in Everett- and found nasty little heads of copperish corrosion growing on top off all the bungs/fittings around the aft end of the hull. Pulled one of the zincs off and never saw this phenomena again. So keep it zinked. Just don’t fall for the ‘more is better’ argument. It isn’t.

    also, maybe you found this out by now, Everett is likely the only place you will find moorage without a long waiting list. Also, If you wait till spring, open slips get really scarce around the Sound.

    if you go behind the locks, e,g. Into lake Union, you’ll probably feel very trapped in short order. It’s a real hassle to lock in and out into the sSound when you want to go sailing. Often requiring 1-2 hr wait to get out the locks. Forget any thought of summer evening sails. Isn’t going happen in the ship channel with your size boat. Also you will need to navigate and wait for three bridges to open and close if you moor in Lake Union. We tied up in Fisherman’s Terminal for a year because it was cheaper. Trapped between the locks and the bridge, we never moved. never again!

    lots of places to explore, once you are able to access salt water.

    Good luck. Nice looking vessel!

    glenn
    Last edited by Glenn.brooks; 02-13-2018 at 03:38 AM.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    I think there is a problem with the idea that a wooden hull makes a good electrical insulator. A dry boat might, but planks soaked in salt water are conductors, so the fasteners are all bonded together emerged in an electrolytic solution.
    I understand that wood, especially on a planked hull, is not that great of an electrical insulator due to soaking up the salt water. So yes, those fasteners are emerged in an electrolytic solution. However, what other metal are they in contact with? And again, if you need syncs to protect fasteners from planks to frames, where would those zincs be installed? I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I understand that wood, especially on a planked hull, is not that great of an electrical insulator due to soaking up the salt water. So yes, those fasteners are emerged in an electrolytic solution. However, what other metal are they in contact with? And again, if you need syncs to protect fasteners from planks to frames, where would those zincs be installed? I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.
    Consider that lots of boats use copper anti-fouling paint that is also conductive. In this case the entire shell of the boat is somewhat conductive (and I admit to never measuring the resistance of copper paint or saturated boards), because of that everything is bonded so I don't see that it matters to much where the zinc is placed. On boats with iron keels I would put one on the edge of the iron and touching the copper paint.

    This is the best paper I could find on the topic. It probably should be a post all of it's own. http://www.mcclavemarine.com/text%20...oden.Boats.pdf
    Last edited by navydog; 02-13-2018 at 12:07 PM.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn.brooks View Post

    if you go behind the locks, e,g. Into lake Union, you’ll probably feel very trapped in short order. It’s a real hassle to lock in and out into the sSound when you want to go sailing. Often requiring 1-2 hr wait to get out the locks. Forget any thought of summer evening sails. Isn’t going happen in the ship channel with your size boat. Also you will need to navigate and wait for three bridges to open and close if you moor in Lake Union. We tied up in Fisherman’s Terminal for a year because it was cheaper. Trapped between the locks and the bridge, we never moved. never again!

    glenn
    I can see that keeping a 42ft schooner at Thunderbird would not offer many summer evening sails; getting out on the sound is a lot of overhead for a few hour sail. But a smaller boat works pretty well in Lake Union.... There's generally a nice northerly between 4 and 8 PM (that is often not present elsewhere) and you certainly get boat handling experience - especially on Tuesday evenings! What you don't get is long tacks.

    I was lucky enough to be able to tie up next to my houseboat in Lake Union, which made the trip between the house and the boat for winter maintenance, repairs, or projects the shortest it can be. My mast was less than 41 feet, so the only bridge I had to raise was the Fremont. When we went traveling we usually tried to schedule the lock transit in the late evening, tie up at Shilshole, and wait for the ebb. Always got the small locks, sometimes the only boat in there. So for us and the boat, it worked pretty well.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    I'll be keeping her on Lake Washington to start - only 10 min from home, making it easy to work on her (interior needs a lot of help) and will also be conducive to getting more experience in the water with minimum fuss and overhead. I think there's enough water to keep me busy for a while with the occasional weekender through the locks and out into the Sound when I'm ready. Her mast is over 40' (I think I remember seeing 42' 9" but I think that's to the cabin top on the plans).

    With that mast height, just getting from the lake (south of the I-90 floating bridge) to the sound will be a lengthy process - going around the backside of Mercer Island, under Montlake Ave bridge (wait), Freemont bridge (wait), then probably Ballard bridge (chart says 46' at center - wait), then locks - more waiting. I figure next year I'll probably want to move her to the Sound.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Ah yes, the Dreaded Locks..... Don't forget the railroad bridge west of the locks - clearance depends on tide. An overnight at Shilshole provides an opportunity to take on fuel and crew. If you can avoid it,never transit eastward through the locks late on a sunny Sunday afternoon. It doesn't take too many inebriated boat owners to make keeping station in current a true hazard.

    Also, on the way out when the RR bridge is down, traffic puts you in the large locks and they're letting lots of water out of the lakes, I found turning left immediately after leaving the large locks gets you out of the current and boat streams so that you can circle. Most power boaters won't recognize that you need to be in the right place to turn quickly under those circumstances

    I don't know if they still do it, but late at night (after 10?) the bridge tender moved from bridge to bridge responding to radio requests. If they knew you were heading for the Sound, they were at each bridge waiting for your horn.

    I have plans drawn by Garden that show re-rigging the sistership to my 35' Seaborn/Blanchard to a masthead sloop. She was kept on Lake Washington at the time and the mast was shortened just enough to get under the bridges, which I think was the point. My boat also has a similar shortened rig.
    Last edited by bvv; 02-13-2018 at 09:10 PM.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Took delivery of Nixie on Saturday and decided to take her to her new berth on Lake Washington. Was my first experience with a boat this big and was single-handing so I had some nerves - just decided to get on with it as the wind/weather was pretty decent and I knew it would be quiet going through the cut on a winter Saturday morning. The first quick test was a fuel-up at Morrison's - OK no problem, I got this.

    Then headed across Lake Union to the first bridge just east of I-5. Long-short blast, long-short acknowledge, bridge goes up, cool this is easy. Then I motor through Portage Bay and approach the cut and the Montlake Bridge. Long-short blast. Nothing. Long-short blast. Nothing. Uh-oh. So I'm doing donuts in a very narrow cut and learning about prop wash and prop walk and figuring out how to keep off the cement walls of the channel (thankfully there is no boat traffic and only a light wind). Now I'm thinking maybe I need an appointment? What if they won't open the bridge? One more blast and I see that there is not traffic going over the bridge and just the bell ringing - phew - no acknowledgement from the bridge operators but they are opening for me.

    The rest of the way was uneventful - all the way to the east side of the 520 bridge then south around the backside of Mercer Island (mast is too tall to go under the I-90 bridge). The whole took me about 3.5-4 hours but I got a good feel for maneuvering her under power and confidence with docking single-handed. I can see that I'm going to need a slip either much farther north on Lake Washington or on Lake Union to ever think about getting to the Sound. But the lake will keep me busy for a while as I still have a lot to learn and many projects ahead. Some pics of the voyage:

    Heading over to Morrison's:

    IMG_2655.jpg

    Fueling up:

    IMG_2656.jpg

    First bridge behind:

    IMG_2657.jpg

    Her new berth:

    IMG_2662.jpg

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Congratulations!

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Good on you!

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Great feeling, inn'it! Congrats!

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Nice write up on your first voyage. Congrats on your boat purchase. Only 8 weeks or so till the opening of boating season.

    Lots of places to go for day trips or weekend overnighters around Puget Sound.

    One tip for singlehanded work: forget about bow and stern lines when approaching the dock. Set up a long spring line amidships, just forward of the front of the cockpit and use that to tie up. I used to tie my springlines off to the closest mid ships stanchion base, and would leave them more or less permanetly attached for easy singlehanded docking.

    Spring line also works very well coming into a slip, alongside a fuel float, even tieing up next to another boat. Then you can set and adjust bow and stern lines at your leisure.

    Fair winds!

    Glenn P.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    I think what you are referring to as bulkheads are floors. Floors are usualy 2-3 inches thick and about 12 inches high. It's common to have adjacent ribs bolted to them. Floors are what holds the keel on.
    Hey dog! Does bolting the keel to floor make it the floor, therefore, it is not a bulkhead? I sort of thought I had only Bulkheads in this boat I designed and built, but perhaps I am only using incorrect terminology.

    Neah Bay.jpg
    MarAzul in Neah Bay

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    I verified that my keel is bolted through the keel timber, not through the floors, but from what I can tell "floors" or "floor timbers" are not commonly called bulkheads no matter how the keel is attached. They are still floors even if there is no ballast keel at all.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Very interesting! How then does a bulkhead become a floor if there is no ballast keel bolted on at all?

    In The boat shown in the photo, one of the attachment points forward serves double duty, as support for the deck mounted mast Tabernacle and then below
    to hang the forward fin of a tandem finned keel.

    Sounds as if I have the terminology all fouled up. Since I mount the keel on the same structure as the mast is supported, my mast sets on a floor.

    I jest just a bit I suppose what I have done is make a combination of floor and Bulkhead in a composite structure. So I should use floor as the term
    when speaking of the keel, and bulkhead when speaking of the mast. But I know somewhere at sometime someone will point out to me, hey! It's the same thing!
    Last edited by MarAzul; 02-27-2018 at 06:36 PM.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by MarAzul View Post
    Very interesting! How then does a bulkhead become a floor if there is no ballast keel bolted on at all?

    In The boat shown in the photo, one of the attachment points forward serves double duty, as support for the deck mounted mast Tabernacle and then below
    to hang the forward fin of a tandem finned keel.

    Sounds as if I have the terminology all fouled up. Since I mount the keel on the same structure as the mast is supported, my mast sets on a floor.
    Floors are mounted on top of the keel. Some keelbolts go through the floor & keel, others don't. A floor's main purpose is to hold the frames in tight to the keel timber.

    The varnished piece with the (awful) nails through it is a floor: (ETA: Also not sure why the bolts don't go into the keep timber - but you find odd stuff on the interwebs):

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  29. #99
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    MarAzul,
    Read through this thread, http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...1-Naming-the-p

    A bulkhead in a boat is a wall cutting across the boat in contact with the hull at all points as well as the cabin sides and top.
    Last edited by navydog; 02-27-2018 at 07:12 PM.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    A bulkhead is a wall dividing the boat. A floor is a structural framing member located in the bilge. One can not become the other, even if some bulkheads are structural. They are both installed awarthships. There are boats without bulkheads and there are boats without floors and even boats without either. The ballast may be bolted to the floors or only to the keel. It all depends on the size an construction method and material.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulkhead_(partition)

    P.S. I should refresh my browser more often, it's redundant info.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    I've been working on ripping out the old galley sink and countertop. The previous owner had done some work in the cabin using CVG fir, so I decided to keep it all consistent.

    Old galley - layer of linoleum over formica over ply:

    IMG_2737.jpg

    Linoleum removed:

    IMG_2745.jpg

    Formica removed:

    IMG_2746.jpg

    I decided to trim that bulkhead divider/handhold on the left of the sink edge flush with plywood base - it's just 3/4" ply with a raw edge and cut-out. Instead, I decided to run the new countertop with an overhang on front and left sides, and then fit a hinged and matched fold-up leaf to extend the countertop when needed. In this picture you can also see the other work that was done prior to my purchase on the port side with the tiny Sardine woodstove:

    IMG_2748 (1).jpg

    I used 5/4" clear VG fir stair tread stock (pricey stuff - I had no idea!) to glue up and create the blank for the countertop. You can also see that I roughed out a rectangular storage cubby in the right rear corner with some left-over 1x3 fir from replacing the old plywood cabin sole with strip planks:

    IMG_2754.jpg
    1949 Alden Malabar Jr - "Nixie"

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Here's the countertop with the sink hole cut-out and new brass Finspray bronze galley pump test fitted. The countertop has been covered on all sides with a coat of penetrating epoxy but no finish yet. I also added trim pieces (I think they are called "fiddles" in boatspeak?"). I don't have a router but I think I'm going to get one and put more of a radius on those pieces (I'm always looking for an excuse to buy a tool haha). Also, first attempt at sinking and bunging the fasteners went pretty well. While waiting for parts and stuff to cure, I also took some time to put a few coats of Le Tonk on the mahogany (or teak?) trim band - what a difference a little sanding and varnish makes! Next step is fitting a matching hinged cover for that deep storage cubby behind the sink and the folding leaf to left edge.

    IMG_2779 (1).jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1949 Alden Malabar Jr - "Nixie"

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    VERY Nice! Glad to see some pics! I like the clear fir. That has a wonderful feel to it and time gives it a wonderful honeylike color.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Here's some pics of the progress with the cabin sole. If you look carefully, you can see where I've cut the planks just forward of the companionway steps to create a proper bilge hatch (there was just a jigsaw puzzle of plywood pieces prior). Of course, these were the easy planks.

    IMG_2708 (1).jpg

    Mr. Jay Greer would be happy (I hope!) to see that I replaced the plywood piece outside the head with some scraps of teak grid to create a forward vent for the bilge:

    IMG_2709 (2).jpg

    Here's the full cockpit while I'm at it:

    IMG_2707 (1).jpg

    And a beauty shot of her new berth at the Leschi marina on Lake Washington just minutes from my house:

    IMG_2781 (2).jpg
    1949 Alden Malabar Jr - "Nixie"

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Contemplating owning a wooden sailboat in Seattle

    Thanks Hugh - I guess I need to change the name of the thread (or start a new one) since I'm no longer "contemplating"
    1949 Alden Malabar Jr - "Nixie"

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

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