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Thread: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

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    Question Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    What wooden boat plan would be capable for “fast” tandem rowing, one fixed plus one sliding seat, that can be rowed out to the Farallons, with at least 4’ waves expected, by crew of three (the third as a relief rower) to camp (with permits) and row back to Berkeley Marina that could mount a solar-electric outboard, for emergency use only? Ability to retro fit a basic sail mast and rig would be dandy for leisurely fishing trips also.

    https://www.calacademy.org/webcams/farallones

    happy new year!
    Last edited by Chris94703; 01-01-2018 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Don't know that I have ever seen a boat rigged with one slide and one fixed seat. I'm not sure the oar geometry would work if the sllde uses outriggers and 9'6" oars with the fixed seat using say 8 footers. Might work without outriggers if both were using the same oar length. In any case you would be looking for something close to 20; I was involved with a one off race boat set up as a triple fixed seat, or a double with drop in rigs. It used folding outriggers so in either case you were swinging long oars. The boat was hugely seaworthy with the crew compartment being essentially a bath tub. Decks and buoyancy compartments fore and aft and along the sides.
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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Don't know that I have ever seen a boat rigged with one slide and one fixed seat. I'm not sure the oar geometry would work if the sllde uses outriggers and 9'6" oars with the fixed seat using say 8 footers. Might work without outriggers if both were using the same oar length. In any case you would be looking for something close to 20; I was involved with a one off race boat set up as a triple fixed seat, or a double with drop in rigs. It used folding outriggers so in either case you were swinging long oars. The boat was hugely seaworthy with the crew compartment being essentially a bath tub. Decks and buoyancy compartments fore and aft and along the sides.
    one sliding seat would be for when I row out alone, for fitness. I hardly know what’s possible, other than would like to add a boat or two and get out there.


    I suppose two sculling seats seats would work.
    Last edited by Chris94703; 01-02-2018 at 01:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    How well thought out is this idea of yours? Have you ever tried rowing in 4 foot wind waves? 4 foot swells are nothing, but if you're talking about wind waves you should just forget about it, 30 miles is a long ways.

    If you do make it out there, what about this, from your link? "Because of the important and sensitive seabird and mammal populations that use the Farallones as breeding grounds, the islands are not open to the public."

    Sorry to be a downer.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    How well thought out is this idea of yours? Have you ever tried rowing in 4 foot wind waves? 4 foot swells are nothing, but if you're talking about wind waves you should just forget about it, 30 miles is a long ways.

    If you do make it out there, what about this, from your link? "Because of the important and sensitive seabird and mammal populations that use the Farallones as breeding grounds, the islands are not open to the public."

    Sorry to be a downer.
    Yeah, thought of that. Would have to sleep on the boat (...that could be a nightmare even with two anchors) or row back, if a permit could not be obtained. Thus i’d want provisions for an outboard to hasten the trip back, in case there’s an unexpected urgency.

    Such a boat would be useful fun for other expeditions.
    Last edited by Chris94703; 01-02-2018 at 01:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    You ought to get in a year or two rowing in the bay first Chris. There's at least one rowing club there. Perhaps you can try out some of their boats. What you're considering is for masters only. I bet you could learn a lot and have a really good time on one of the whaleboat racing teams.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    You ought to get in a year or two rowing in the bay first Chris. There's at least one rowing club there. Perhaps you can try out some of their boats. What you're considering is for masters only. I bet you could learn a lot and have a really good time on one of the whaleboat racing teams.
    Aye aye, we will do that.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    I'm glad to hear that. I think I remember from one of your other threads that you want to row with your wife and child.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    I'm glad to hear that. I think I remember from one of your other threads that you want to row with your wife and child.
    I want to do challenging row cruising expeditions with two athletic adults and do separate easier fishing cruising trips with my wife.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    That's a worthwhile goal. If I'm around next summer you can come up to the Gulf Islands and try out a couple of my boats. There are lots of nice camping spots up here, and it's usually calm enough for rowing to be really enjoyable instead of life threatening.

    I'm not aware of any better place on the planet for row cruising than the BC coast.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    That's a worthwhile goal. If I'm around next summer you can come up to the Gulf Islands and try out a couple of my boats. There are lots of nice camping spots up here, and it's usually calm enough for rowing to be really enjoyable instead of life threatening.

    I'm not aware of any better place on the planet for row cruising than the BC coast.
    Thank you.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay



    There are other ways for two rowers to tackle 4' waves...... might give some food for thought?

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    You might check out some of the rowing entries from R2AK. Angus (McClure?) of Angus rowboats might have a plan you can use or Wayland marine...both of those have contributed to the R2AK fleet. Your goal sounds like one not for the faint of heart and for my part I'd really want that ability to back up oars with sail.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    30 miles to get here. In a rowboat. !!!

    "Conditions on the rocky shore are too hazardous for a dock" https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/t...n-islands.html
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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    30 miles to get here. In a rowboat. !!!

    "Conditions on the rocky shore are too hazardous for a dock" https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/t...n-islands.html

    .. all that makes for a dirty and dangerous expedition worthy of careful planning and training.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Okay, this will sound like a joke, and I AM a silly guy, but I am serious. I would not want to be playing around the Farallones in a boat small enough to make a white shark think he could take it.

    There are LOTS of sharks out there, and some are VERY big. During the right (or wrong) time of year, farting around there in a smallish boat splashing around with oars or paddles will bring some curious sharks.

    Then there is the whole actually rowing out there deal. Oof.

    Trip Of A Lifetime, not any lark.

    I’m thinking one of the cruising style rowboats would be best. Maybe something like a Walkabout, that will row well, but also sail?
    It seems the “valley” type interior of the Walkabout would make an easy way to set up for double banked rowers, or a single slider. You might could even use skateboard wheels to make a sliding seat, eh?

    Mind, I am NOT recommending the boat, but something in the vein. Lots of flotation, some decks, a real, useable, If smallish, rig, and the unique interior that would allow sleeping in, and multiple row stations.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. I’m totally intrigued by your plan. I would never do it, but it does sound like an adventure.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Overnighting - anchored in the lee of the Farallons can be safely done in a a small boat. Close in it's shallow & rocky so anchor holding would be excellent. Two issues - the smell in the lee from the bird & mammals who live on it is pretty strong...no big deal - but the marine mammal anus(kelp) flies were really annoying. They are many & want your juices, it's just something they gotta do...they go for your eyes...their best quality is being are slow & easy to kill. They have an ability to hide in the boat & large numbers persist on landing on your face during the trip back to the mainland...Thanks for the opportunity to share my experience with them, not something I can talk about with normal folks..

    I highly recommend the book Devils Teeth to give you a feeling for the place. Absolutely magical place but the Farallons are...tough. Greatest danger though are the tides (&winds) over/around the bar - they can result in conditions impossible for a row/sail boat to make way against. It will take lots of planning but without first hand experience of the rapidly changing conditions over/around the bar you shouldn't attempt it...Your idea is great, hell of an adventure.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Gb...0teeth&f=false

    What boat? Keep the windage down & configure the interior to fill with water & not stop you. 21ft is the minimum length I'd be comfortable with - shorter & you'd tend to be right in the wind wave period which I think would be more up & down then distance made over ground. Sail/oar makes sense - sail on the return trip would usually work great. Play around Point Bonita as much as possible in different conditions to get a taste of the perils. Moe

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    It looks like you would have to be prepared to spend some nights at sea if landing proved impossible and if conditions made progress slow.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Check out The Voyage of the Cormorant by Christian Beamish. He sailed an Oughtred double-ender solo out to the Farallons (I think--but maybe the Channel Islands now that I think of it) as a shake-down for his later Baja cruise.

    I'd say the Farallons trip is sane with the right boat and planning. But it's not trivial by any means. I'd love to do it someday.

    edit to add: I think a Welsford Walkabout stretched to 18' as per the designer would be a good choice for a tandem rowing trip. But that's a little boat, and a BIG ocean...

    Tom
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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    ^ yes, Shetland boats and their derivatives are incredibly seaworthy boats. A 18' boat should row two up, but be light enough for one.
    Not that I am encouraging you to row a 60 mile round trip.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    I've got a Walkabout stretched to 18', but my limit is poking the nose out the Golden Gate. That's enough excitement, even on a calm day.

    IMO the 18' Walkabout is OK for two, would be loaded and close quarters for 3. It also has enough of a flat dory bottom that it pounds into steep chop, made worse the longer you stretch it. The flat sole does not have a low spot to collect water for pumping out, so if you do take a wave the water is hard to remove with a pump.

    This is set up for a picnicking on a river, but gives an idea of the room aboard with two:



    You are still welcome to come up to Fairfield for a test row, at least get out on a boat and see if these crazy ideas are as appealing as you think

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    I've got a Walkabout stretched to 18', but my limit is poking the nose out the Golden Gate. That's enough excitement, even on a calm day.

    IMO the 18' Walkabout is OK for two, would be loaded and close quarters for 3. It also has enough of a flat dory bottom that it pounds into steep chop, made worse the longer you stretch it. The flat sole does not have a low spot to collect water for pumping out, so if you do take a wave the water is hard to remove with a pump.

    This is set up for a picnicking on a river, but gives an idea of the room aboard with two:



    You are still welcome to come up to Fairfield for a test row, at least get out on a boat and see if these crazy ideas are as appealing as you think
    Haha. I was actually thinking of this very boat.

    Mostly I was thinking of the interior layout, with the side bench, empty hallway down the middle. I think that would be a great layout for a boat described in the op that may have multiple rowers, or a single slider, and needs to resist swamping. I was thinking precisely of the rowing layout shown by your oarlock blocks.

    Maybe a big west coast Whitehall derivative with an interior setup like yours would work?

    I mean for someone who wants to row out there. Not me. Kayaking near the gate was enough for me.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Haha. I was actually thinking of this very boat.

    Mostly I was thinking of the interior layout, with the side bench, empty hallway down the middle. I think that would be a great layout for a boat described in the op that may have multiple rowers, or a single slider, and needs to resist swamping. I was thinking precisely of the rowing layout shown by your oarlock blocks.

    Maybe a big west coast Whitehall derivative with an interior setup like yours would work?

    I mean for someone who wants to row out there. Not me. Kayaking near the gate was enough for me.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Double enders like your gun punt are better sea boats. Less likely to be pushed round into a broach by a following sea. It you need a transom for room in 't back, keep it high on a tall sternpost.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post

    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    In Sterling Hayden's book Voyage the ending has the protagonist rowing a Whitehall out through the Golden Gate.

    An obvious suicide...

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    There are crazy folk who swim to the Farallons, so rowing must be slightly less nuts. The swimmers have big chase boats to pull them out if it goes wonky, though.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Double enders like your gun punt are better sea boats. Less likely to be pushed round into a broach by a following sea. It you need a transom for room in 't back, keep it high on a tall sternpost.
    ...That’s a good looking boat: Functional beauty.

    If we pull it off, bad pun intended, we will remember that row well or others will remember us as having fed fish, salty compost. At least there’ll be no pirates or hateful Deliverance folks to get messing about with on that boat. We’re not sculling to Hana, Maui: Now that would be out if this world.

    Seriously, we’ll have three farmer John wet suits & foulies, ropes and vests, flotations built in to already an unsinkable wooden boat, long enough boat to sleep in, three comm’ gear plus three CG beacons, and extra drinking water for keel ballast. Just got to convince these climbers not bring the whisky... plus fishing lines and a harpoon, just for the hell of it (well, because we are as much whale huggers as we are tree huggers).

    Perhaps a boat like this, but more optimized for rowing speed: http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/w...g-cruiser.html
    Last edited by Chris94703; 01-03-2018 at 12:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    There are crazy folk who swim to the Farallons, so rowing must be slightly less nuts. The swimmers have big chase boats to pull them out if it goes wonky, though.
    Yeah, that’s bold: I only intend to approximate courage which implies prudence. Besides, swimming makes me nervous and the deep, over 7’, waters scare me.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by MoePorter View Post
    Overnighting - anchored in the lee of the Farallons can be safely done in a a small boat. Close in it's shallow & rocky so anchor holding would be excellent. Two issues - the smell in the lee from the bird & mammals who live on it is pretty strong...no big deal - but the marine mammal anus(kelp) flies were really annoying. They are many & want your juices, it's just something they gotta do...they go for your eyes...their best quality is being are slow & easy to kill. They have an ability to hide in the boat & large numbers persist on landing on your face during the trip back to the mainland...Thanks for the opportunity to share my experience with them, not something I can talk about with normal folks..

    I highly recommend the book Devils Teeth to give you a feeling for the place. Absolutely magical place but the Farallons are...tough. Greatest danger though are the tides (&winds) over/around the bar - they can result in conditions impossible for a row/sail boat to make way against. It will take lots of planning but without first hand experience of the rapidly changing conditions over/around the bar you shouldn't attempt it...Your idea is great, hell of an adventure.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Gb...0teeth&f=false

    What boat? Keep the windage down & configure the interior to fill with water & not stop you. 21ft is the minimum length I'd be comfortable with - shorter & you'd tend to be right in the wind wave period which I think would be more up & down then distance made over ground. Sail/oar makes sense - sail on the return trip would usually work great. Play around Point Bonita as much as possible in different conditions to get a taste of the perils. Moe
    thank you.

    I’ve just ordered that book you’ve mentioned.
    Last edited by Chris94703; 01-03-2018 at 12:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    You might check out some of the rowing entries from R2AK. Angus (McClure?) of Angus rowboats might have a plan you can use or Wayland marine...both of those have contributed to the R2AK fleet. Your goal sounds like one not for the faint of heart and for my part I'd really want that ability to back up oars with sail.
    Rowing boat that can put up a sail and can mount an outboard, stored under the aft deck, would be ideal.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by MoePorter View Post

    What boat? Keep the windage down & configure the interior to fill with water & not stop you. 21ft is the minimum length I'd be comfortable with - shorter & you'd tend to be right in the wind wave period which I think would be more up & down then distance made over ground. Sail/oar makes sense - sail on the return trip would usually work great. Play around Point Bonita as much as possible in different conditions to get a taste of the perils. Moe
    Steve Barnes's BANANA SPLIT our 21' triple rough water double ended race boat would be about perfect. With the bathtub cockpit concept we could row her fully swamped, and indeed if you had more than six inches of water or so in the boat her ends and side buoyancy would drain her. We had a big self bailer in the bottom. Being fully decked except for the bathtub windage was low. We never did it but using kayak style hatches kit could be stowed in ends. You could probably have slept two feet to feet in the bathtub which was no wider than it had to be for the crew. Don't know where the boat is now as this was all in the 90s. Don't think he ever published the drawings.
    Ben Fuller
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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris94703 View Post
    ...Thatís a good looking boat: Functional beauty.

    If we pull it off, bad pun intended, we will remember that row well or others will remember us as having fed fish, salty compost. At least thereíll be no pirates or hateful Deliverance folks to get messing about with on that boat. Weíre not sculling to Hana, Maui: Now that would be out if this world.

    Seriously, weíll have three farmer John wet suits & foulies, ropes and vests, flotations built in to already an unsinkable wooden boat, long enough boat to sleep in, three commí gear plus three CG beacons, and extra drinking water for keel ballast. Just got to convince these climbers not bring the whisky... plus fishing lines and a harpoon, just for the hell of it (well, because we are as much whale huggers as we are tree huggers).

    Perhaps a boat like this, but more optimized for rowing speed: http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/w...g-cruiser.html
    Then you need a St Ayles skiff - 22' x 5'8", double-ender, optimized for coastal rowing, plenty fast and stable. Iain Oughtred designed it for 4 rowers and a cox, should be good for your crew of 3 plus gear. Many have been built by amateurs, and kits are available.

    You would have to revise the interior to add two slide seats and a sleeping platform, plus flotation bags to strap in on the sides. Add a canvas spray shield or full tent cover.

    Like any double-ender it's not designed for an outboard, and it's not designed to sail. If you really want everything then some trade-offs are needed.




  32. #32
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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Would something like a pilot gig work, I wonder? Donít they sail those, sometimes? I really donít know, but seem to remember somewhere seeing that.
    I mean, I know cats row those things across the channel, so I assume they are decent in a seaway, though Iíve never been in the channel and have zero knowledge of the conditions, other than reading.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Steve Barnes's BANANA SPLIT our 21' triple rough water double ended race boat would be about perfect. With the bathtub cockpit concept we could row her fully swamped, and indeed if you had more than six inches of water or so in the boat her ends and side buoyancy would drain her. We had a big self bailer in the bottom. Being fully decked except for the bathtub windage was low. We never did it but using kayak style hatches kit could be stowed in ends. You could probably have slept two feet to feet in the bathtub which was no wider than it had to be for the crew. Don't know where the boat is now as this was all in the 90s. Don't think he ever published the drawings.
    I like the description of the inside you use. Bathtub. That is exactly the layout I had in mind for a boat like this. I think one of those lovely duckers like you have with a layout like that inside would be a sweet boat to play around in.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Would something like a pilot gig work, I wonder? Don’t they sail those, sometimes? I really don’t know, but seem to remember somewhere seeing that.
    I mean, I know cats row those things across the channel, so I assume they are decent in a seaway, though I’ve never been in the channel and have zero knowledge of the conditions, other than reading.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Yes, excellent boats, could be sailed, but big on crew - six oars plus cox.
    The boat my Grandfather used might be better. https://nmmc.co.uk/object/boats/kent...haughty-belle/
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Tandem rowing boat to Farallon Is. from SF Bay

    By the by, thanks a lot.

    Now I am obsessing about rowboats. I think we probably need one we could take the whole,family in.

    Not out into the ocean!

    Peace,
    Robert

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