Okie Bobby's Next Boat

[Okiebobby]

I need help selecting my next boat.

Preferred qualities:
- 17' hull length give or take a couple of feet
- shallow draft, shallower the better
- split sail rig
- lapstrake appearance, some serious wooden-boat porn
- tolerable day & overnight accommodations for two
- leeboards, but not a deal killer
- respectable performance, and able to handle some slop

My interest is weekend lake and coastal cruising.

So lets see what beauties y'all suggest to help me ring in the New Year!

[Woxbox]

Do these two sailors need to sleep in a cabin?

If so, the Chebacco is worthy of consideration:



If not, you're smack dab in Oughtred territory, such as the Caledonia Yawl:

[Okiebobby]

Woxbox,

Do these two sailors need to sleep in a cabin?

If so, the Chebacco is worthy of consideration:

If not, you're smack dab in Oughtred territory, such as the Caledonia Yawl:

You definitely are in the ballpark. Chebacco and the Caledonia Yawl are both worthy. If I was told either one of them would be my last and only boat, I'd be a happy camper.

Open boat versus cabin boat? Either way. If I go with an open boat plan, I'd try to add on at least a cuddy. If I go with a cabin boat plan, then I'd try to build it in a way to make a section of the cabin top partially removable.

[JimD]

I wouldn't want one of those tender Caledonias. Would much prefer the Chebacco. Bigger, roomier, more comfortable, less exposed.

[Woxbox]

A bit more complex to tackle, the Eel. (Plans available from the WB store.)




Or Welsford's Pathfinder, which takes a small cuddy nicely:

[Okiebobby]

Woxbox,

A bit more complex to tackle, the Eel. (Plans available from the WB store.)

Or Welsford's Pathfinder, which takes a small cuddy nicely:

You are four for four, and on fire. Four boats I love.

I recently discovered Garden's Eel and wouldn't be surprised if it is in the final cut once the field is narrowed. I'm trying to restrain myself from directing this thread too much, but I've got say that Pathfinder is my Plan B or baseline. So the two pics you just posted are my ole standby and new curiosity.

[stromborg]

I am rather fond of the Eun Mara. 19'-9" on deck with a nice comfy cabin to hang out in if the weather is bad, also has twin bilge boards instead of a centerboard so the floor plan is nice and open. But, as with the Chebacco and Eel there is a lot of rigging to contend with for a weekend sail. I am fortunate enough to be able to keep mine in the water but forumite Ian Milne owned the pictured boat, he kept it on a trailer and can speak about how long it took to get launched.



Here is another, she doesn't draw much with the boards up.

A lot of folks around here love their open boats with boom tents, my preference is to able to drop anchor and simply head below as opposed to having to rig up the tent. Each method has benefits and drawbacks.

Best of luck on your search.

[Woxbox]

A big deciding factor in this category of boats is this: motor or no motor?

If you're going to schlep along an outboard, then might as well go for a bigger boat. But if it's going to be human powered, then light and narrow is what you want. I had been thinking about my next boat for some time, and the Chebacco was high on the list. Also up top was a catboat, which would probably have led to a production boat like the Sanderling. But after selling the last boat, a trimaran that required outboard power and a lot of other go-fast gear and other technical stuff, I decided I was going to keep it as dirt simple as possible -- no motor, simple rig, near zero set-up time, and extreme shoal draft. That took the Chebacco and any wide catboat off the list. So I've settled on CLC's Autumn Leaves. But that's a solo boat, so it wouldn't work in your case. And even if it did, it's not the looker that you're after.

But the Eel will just barely sleep two and can be rowed. So can the Caledonia Yawl, although I've seen more than one of those with a well for a little outboard. But most boats in the class want auxiliary power -- is that your plan? If so, the list could grow long. If not, I haven't seen many options that have a useful cabin or cuddy and also lend themselves to oar power.

[Okiebobby]

I am rather fond of the Eun Mara. 19'-9" on deck with a nice comfy cabin to hang out in if the weather is bad, also has twin bilge boards instead of a centerboard so the floor plan is nice and open. But, as with the Chebacco and Eel there is a lot of rigging to contend with for a weekend sail. I am fortunate enough to be able to keep mine in the water but forumite Ian Milne owned the pictured boat, he kept it on a trailer and can speak about how long it took to get launched.



Here is another, she doesn't draw much with the boards up.

A lot of folks around here love their open boats with boom tents, my preference is to able to drop anchor and simply head below as opposed to having to rig up the tent. Each method has benefits and drawbacks.

Best of luck on your search.

Stromborg,

Bullseye! For a cabin boat, this will be hard to beat. Steve, your Eun Mara is definitely in a higher league than I had anticipated playing, but you only live once. If I'm going to spend my spare time handling winches, they may as well be beautiful dames like yours. I didn't realize she was shallow draft, but a picture is worth a thousand words. Eun Mara is on my radar screen now. Thanks!! So how does she sail? Have you had a chance to sail along with other boats (e.g. any Pathfinders?, Navigators?, Periwinkles? Caledonia Yawls?) to see how she keeps up? What's her length on the water line? Ballasted? Are study plans available? I must be looking in the wrong place. I can't seem to find a lot of specs on Oughtred's site. Sorry for all the questions, but I have a lot more.

My current boat is a Rob Roy 23, which I love; but she is too big for the garage. This next boat that y'all are helping me with, is intended to replace the RR23 and fit in the garage. Eun Mara would be an upgraded downsize that may just fit my tastes and comfort level to a tee.

[Okiebobby]

A big deciding factor in this category of boats is this: motor or no motor?

If you're going to schlep along an outboard, then might as well go for a bigger boat. But if it's going to be human powered, then light and narrow is what you want. I had been thinking about my next boat for some time, and the Chebacco was high on the list. Also up top was a catboat, which would probably have led to a production boat like the Sanderling. But after selling the last boat, a trimaran that required outboard power and a lot of other go-fast gear and other technical stuff, I decided I was going to keep it as dirt simple as possible -- no motor, simple rig, near zero set-up time, and extreme shoal draft. That took the Chebacco and any wide catboat off the list. So I've settled on CLC's Autumn Leaves. But that's a solo boat, so it wouldn't work in your case. And even if it did, it's not the looker that you're after.

But the Eel will just barely sleep two and can be rowed. So can the Caledonia Yawl, although I've seen more than one of those with a well for a little outboard. But most boats in the class want auxiliary power -- is that your plan? If so, the list could grow long. If not, I haven't seen many options that have a useful cabin or cuddy and also lend themselves to oar power.

Woxbox,

I try to avoid outboards, but lets face it; I'm kidding myself if I think I won't use one some day in the future. I think Honda makes a 2.3hp four stroke. That would be the largest I would want. If I go with a real light boat, I would probable check into electric torqeedos. Either way, the motor will be seldom used, yet essential at times.

[Daniel Noyes]

Hi Bobby here's the boat I just built, a replica/interpertation of a historic New England sailing dory. the tabernackle mast means the rig only takes 10-15+- minutes to set up... originally the tabernackle was used to survive storms while crossing the Atlantic Ocean!

Hull lines available in John Gardners Wooden Boats to Build and Use.



and the original

[Okiebobby]

Daniel,

That's a beautiful dory! I was hoping some dories would get added to the mix.

[Okiebobby]

Opus.jpg

Steve, This is going to be hard to resist. I can think of worst problems to have.

[stromborg]

I almost built Wee Seal. Eun Mara is a bit sleeker (Opus is a local boat and is modified with an extra sheer strake and a bit more beam than stock if I remember the story correctly.)

I have two full seasons of sailing time on Marianita and we were getting faster as I figured out all the little things about sailing her. The 18 foot waterline gives a maximum theoretical speed of about 5 knots, I've hit that a few times but more often we're doing a very relaxed 3.5 to 4. For ballast there is a 400lb keel (4"x4"x5'-6") and each bilge board is about 90lbs so close to 600 total. Most of us are running a 6hp outboard in the well.

http://alistego.com/Alistego.com/index.html is the motherlode of EM information.

[Edward Pearson]

Preferred qualities:
- 17' hull length give or take a couple of feet
- shallow draft, shallower the better
- split sail rig
- lapstrake appearance, some serious wooden-boat porn
- tolerable day & overnight accommodations for two
- leeboards, but not a deal killer
- respectable performance, and able to handle some slop

A 17ft Herreshoff Coquina fits that list, though it sounds like you might want more boat.

[FF]

Have a look at Viviers designs: very salty and mostly lapstrake. And many are offered as a kit, so you can build them in reasonably short time. When building time is over 2 years you are going to 'improve' the original plans and delay launching. Also chances are increased that you will sell her after the first sail.

[stromborg]

Vivier’s “Jewel” is a very sweet little boat

[Okiebobby]

I've been drooling over Eun Mara for a day and night now. It's safe to say she is at the upper limit for both size and weight on my comfort scale. So no need to look at anything bigger. She is my upper boundary. And oh what a beautiful seductive boundary she is.

Now that the pendulum has reached that end, I'd like to fall back and see what the lighter side has to offer. I'm pretty sure Ross Lillistone's Periwinkle has wings. Anybody know about Eel's performance? Pathfinder is what I consider to be my top expectation for boat performance. If a boat can remotely keep up with a Pathfinder, then she exceeds my standard for speed.

[Okiebobby]

Periwinkle-787.jpgPeriwinkle-Launching-106.jpg

Periwinkle looks like a tight fit. Based on the study plans that man is spread out between Bulkhead #1 and Form #5, which is almost 6' long. So real similar to trying to sleep in slim 6' bathtub; no thanks. I'm only 5'9" and if I skip a meal, might weigh just over a buck-fifty, but I still like to sleep in a space with a few inches in each direction.

I am a huge fan of Ross Lillistone, and would go out of my way to build one of his designs. Someone smarter than me, please tell me how to make this boat work as my weekend cruiser. Leeboard maybe?

This one may be too small which surprises me, since I've been in some 8' puddle duck racer's that had plenty of room. I think this boat is beautiful and love the ketch sail plan. The minimalist in me would love to make this work. Originally I thought this design would be one of my final favorites. Maybe I need a fatter boat. Disappointment!!!

[Woxbox]

If you want wide to get the most out of the boat's length, the catboat answers nicely. Not a lapstrake type in general, but they do look salty. For a split rig, Karl Stambaugh's Catboat 18 would be the ticket. This boat would go together much faster than the other decked boats under discussion here, and would feel palatial compared to the Eel and has a much roomier cabin than the Chebacco.

I find it interesting that you're downsizing from the Rob Roy, a boat that was very high on my list when I was shopping 8 years ago and settled on the trimaran. My own downsizing plan also involves switching to solo cruising, sail and oar. The solo part will make the shift to tighter quarters easy. The transition to a smaller boat without the smaller crew might be a different experience.




I was reminded of this boat by looking at the craft reviewed in Mike O'Brien's book "Good Sailboat Designs." Here's his notion of what's worthy in small boats.

Jenny Wren - A timeless 22' yawl - by Charles G. Davis
Compass Harbor - An 8'8" glued-lapstrake pram - by John Brooks
The Catboat - A 16' daysailer/weekender - by Phil Bolger
Row/Sail Skiff - A 15' strip-composite double-ender - by Paul Gartside
Nomans Landers - Far & Away and the Merlin Yawl,
two 17' double-ended beach cruisers - by J. Beetle, Tom Jackson, and Kees Prince
Mist - A 22' plywood cruising sloop - by Karl Stambaugh
Valgerda - An 18'7" Norwegian Hardangersjekte - by William and John Atkin
Double-ended Sloop - A trailerable 22'6" weekender - by Paul Gartside
Nord Koster - An elegant 16' canoe yawl - by Phil Bolger
Catboat - A pleasant 17'1" daysailer/cruiser - by Charles Wittholz
Lit'l Coot - A 17'11" stitch-and-glue motorsailer - by Sam Devlin
Sailing Skiff 15* - A good 15' 4" plywood daysailer - by Karl Stambaugh
Chebacco - A striking 19' 8" daysailer/weekender - by Phil Bolger
Coastal Cruiser - Handsome 22' 6" faering for sail and oar - by John C. Harris
Whilly Boat* - A 14'6" double-ended lapstrake daysailer - by Iain Oughtred
Small Gaff Sloop - A trailerable 16' pocket cruiser - by Paul Gartside
Fast Beach Cruiser - A 22' double-ended light sharpie - by Mike O'Brien
Dovekie - A 21' 5" shoal-draft beach-cruiser - by Phil Bolger
Shore Liner* - A 24' shoal-draft cruising sloop - by William and John Atkin
Catbird 18 - A cat-ketch of extreme shoal draft - by Karl Stambaugh
Buzzards Bay Sloop - An 18' 8" lapstrake gaff-sloop - by Pete Culler
Nymph and Rubens Nymph - Two 8' plywood prams for oar and sail - by Phil Bolger
Heathen - A striking 18' double-ended cutter - by Paul Gartside
Sea Bright Skiffs - Two surf boats (23' 9" and 15' 4") - by Howard Chapelle and Reuel Parker
Calico Jack* - A 24' Chesapeake Bay skipjack - by Joe Gregory
Gunkholer - A 22' shoal-draft cruising skiff - by Jay Benford
Shearwater* - A 16' pulling boat with auxiliary sail - by Joel White
Monhegan - An elegant 18' Friendship sloop - by Phil Bolger
MacGregor* - A glued-lapstrake sailing canoe - by Iain Oughtred

[Okiebobby]

This cabin version of a Pathfinder is striking and very salty looking. As far as size, weight, draft and performance goes - Pathfinder meets my criteria in spades.

Attachment 8094
IMG_1054.jpg

What concerns me most is the the way the layout seems to be focused around that centerboard similar to a racing dinghy. I would need to find a way to deal with that; clear out the clutter without weakening the structure. Any suggestions?

If this boat had leeboards, it would go from being plan B to maybe the one. Wellsford has other designs with leeboard options, or offset centerboards. I wonder?

[Okiebobby]

Pathfinder_Cabin.jpg

For some reason the above post didn't show this picture

[Edward Pearson]

That's the smaller Navigator.




The Pathfinder has the flat floor forward for sleeping on, that your after...





There isn't a better dinghy cruiser in the traditional sense, provided your OK with the overall size (some would prefer the smaller lighter but still capable Navigator for mostly day sailing) and some rigging time. The size and weight of a Pathfinder makes it better if your always weekending.

You can also sleep 2 on an Ilur easily. The most recent kit version sports lift off thwarts and a flat floor. It's slightly shorter and has some unstayed rig options that will be faster into the water for day sailing. The Coresound series of boats have split rigs, space and cabins. Fast too, but perhaps not the style of boat your after.

There was a Pathfinder for sale on the US east coast recently, pro built, unused on a trailer and looked smart: white and blue top strake. Can't find where it was at the minute if it's still for sale. It was on a brokerage site...

[Edward Pearson]

Found it. Still available. It's not labelled properly...they call it a 'Custom 17' which is why it's not sold. Built by Barrier Island Boatworks.

You could spend less if you built it yourself but you'll take a few years probably, and time is running out for all of us. You could go sailing in that at the weekend. I'd buy it if I was in America. I thought about RoRo'ing it accross the Atlantic, but I'll be hit again for import duty and vat (30% of purchase price). Tell your wife being pro built it will always re-sell for premium, so it might not cost you that much overall.

It's in North Carolina. With an engine and even docking arms on the tralier, your good to go (a few people have said they are a handfull getting onto a trailer in a crosswind solo - those docking arms will fix that).



https://www.popyachts.com/ketch-sail...arolina-102204

or

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/...html?id=474103

I can't log into the extra pictures...has it had (non standard) seating added forward?

[Matt young]

Agreed the Pathfinder seams great for your search, I’ll add Paul Fisher’s Able in for fun. Nice size, you can lengthen it to 17’ if desired, some internal ballast. And I think it looks good. I also think his Baltic Lugger is interesting, might be a bit long for your garage but it has a dedicated sleeping platform that’s not on the floor. It is not Lapstrake but I bet he would set you up with those build details.

I wonder about adapting either of these plans to a desgner approved offset centerbord if a big flat floor is a high priority.

http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm

5333F149-952A-4B6D-9F3A-8BEB6C4B0D29.jpeg

60C485C8-3338-4555-9F34-134E5B0A6A78.jpeg

[Okiebobby]

Matt,

Able is beautiful. Also I like the draft being less than a foot. Thanks!

[Okiebobby]

I came across Perry Burton's excellent blog today.

http://buildingpathfinder.blogspot.ca

His Pathfinder named PIKAKE along with his blog and him, are inspiring.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...d-with-a-cabin

Pathfinder appears to be even more capable and versatile than I had originally known, and I already knew it was a formidable vessel. It has moved up on my list from Plan B to the 'A' category, reserving it a seat amongst the short list of finalists.

[FF]

Remember my lugger Lucia? The other guy is planning a slightly bigger version 3/4 decked with bilge ex centerboards to create uninterupted sleeping space.

[Okiebobby]

I received the Pathfinder plans and am trying to determine if size wise it will work for me. A 5% larger version, may work better for my purposes. I'll keep playing with the layout to try to keep to only 17' 5" instead of 18' 4".

Screen Shot 2018-01-22 at 7.22.37 PM.jpg

Ideally I'd like at least 6' of cockpit seating/sleeping space along with more than 6' of cabin berth space. This might not be realistic without increasing the size of the boat.

[Matt young]

Ok you originally stated “17’ hull length give or take a couple feet” so imagine here. This is a lap stake plan, no pictures but I bet it would be very pretty. It’s 19’ 9” long that’s a couple feet+ a tiny bit from your starting point. But the designer states there is two different hull shapes and a small cabin option. I am not sure how comfortable you want your cabin, but this could work.
http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm


F5675881-8BCB-47A3-90DA-AE2514B795DD.gif

[john welsford]

This cabin version of a Pathfinder is striking and very salty looking. As far as size, weight, draft and performance goes - Pathfinder meets my criteria in spades.

Attachment 8094
IMG_1054.jpg

What concerns me most is the the way the layout seems to be focused around that centerboard similar to a racing dinghy. I would need to find a way to deal with that; clear out the clutter without weakening the structure. Any suggestions?

If this boat had leeboards, it would go from being plan B to maybe the one. Wellsford has other designs with leeboard options, or offset centerboards. I wonder?

Leeboards would work just fine, but bear in mind that Pathfinder is a bigger boat than the Navigator shown above and has more space alongside the 'case as a result of her wider beam.
Coincidentally I've just come back from sailing with a couple ( and dog) cruising on a built to plan Pathfinder, and theyre really enjoying the boat.

John Welsford

[Okiebobby]

Leeboards would work just fine, but bear in mind that Pathfinder is a bigger boat than the Navigator shown above and has more space alongside the 'case as a result of her wider beam.
Coincidentally I've just come back from sailing with a couple ( and dog) cruising on a built to plan Pathfinder, and theyre really enjoying the boat.

John Welsford

___________

John,

That's very encouraging. As busy as you must be, I'm surprised you had the time to comment. I'll keep a lookout for leeboards on your lapstrake boats, so I can copy a build method. I do recall reading about a Walkabout with leeboards; the owner seemed quit pleased with the open space - I think he was in Florida. Any suggestions would be welcomed. The more I learn about the Pathfinder, the more I like it. Seems to be an excellent solution to the boat qualities I'm searching for.

Much appreciated,
Bobby

[Okiebobby]

Here is the Walkabout I read about. It was built by Martyn Long.

Martyn Long Walkabout.jpg
Martyn Long Walkabout3.jpg

[Okiebobby]

I'm thinking leeboards, on a Pathfinder, is going to be a complete game changer. It would allow a walk through open slot cabin, which would be perfect for stepping a free standing mast. That being said, a lug mainsail would fit right into this picture. Speaking of pictures.

Below is Tom's Pathfinder, First Light. I can envision a similar picture of it without a centerboard trunk, and me walking forward through my slot top cabin and standing within an arm's length of the bow, stowing the anchor. The pieces maybe starting to fall into place.

30603436040_593e7c622a_z.jpg

Tom generously posted his inspiring build on the forum.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ght=Pathfinder

If imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, I hope to borrow many of Tom's techniques and sincerely flatter him. First Light is a stunning boat.

____________________

The next question, is how to get this very functional non-traditional open slot top cabin:

milesborec.jpg


to look drop-jaw stunning like this traditional cabin:

PF beautiful_Cabin.jpg

Please post examples if you know of any. I'm hoping to flatter (imitate) somebody else's work.

[Okiebobby]

Just a brief update. I was just about completely sold on the Pathfinder to be my next boat. Then found out how fast Walkabout is. Then paused to learn more about Longsteps. Then decided to keep my current boat, a Rob Roy 23, a modern GRP version of the Humber Canoe Yawls. Now, I'm wavering. I just want one boat, and I really would prefer it fit in my garage. So I'm keeping my eye out still. Boy am I such a boat slut.

So the shortlist, which is a long list and may get longer, is (and these are in no particular order): Caledonia Yawl, Eel, Euna Mara, Ness Yawl Penny Fee, Wee Seal, Pathfinder, Pilgrim, (stretched) Walkabout, 6 metre Whaler, and Long Steps.

I suspect I'm leaning toward something similar to a Humber Canoe Yawl, or something with a narrow stern.