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Thread: Not nice, but necessary

  1. #1
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    Default Not nice, but necessary

    If this saves just one person from all of this pain and inconvenience it will be worth posting. Get a Sawstop! In the long run it's cheaper.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Message received. WILCO

    (Healing nicely.)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Geez you were probably even sober.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Your warning needs a warning. Heal well! / Jim

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Yeow!

    I hope you're right handed.

    I have a SawStop, but needed a RouterStop. Good thing fingers heal rather quickly.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed
    PAYTON 13' Pea Pod

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    You're a tough nut. That looks really brutal.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Ugh! That's brutal. Hope you heal quickly. When and if you feel up to it, post an analysis of the actions that led to that. Cautionary tales really drive home the message.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    I was doing nothing wrong or foolish, running a 2x4 through removing 1/8" if I remember right, using a push stick even though there was no need, hadn't had a drink in days if not weeks, radio was off, brightly lit, not at all distracted. I think I just under estimated the height of the blade, which was just high enough to cut through the 1 1/2" material, when I reached across to flick the scrap out of the way to avoid it being pushed back towards me after making the rip.

    Just a plain old accident. The only thing to be learned here is that if you keep doing the same thing for 45 years you are likely to experience an error in judgement, and in this case it was only an eighth of an inch, just enough for those big carbide teeth to grab and pull my fingers down, and the best way to avoid that would have been to use a saw stop.

    That's what I'm trying to drive home. If I had been using a sawstop I would have already removed the band aid and forgotten about it. Believe me, it would have been worth the price difference, and many times over.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Yikes! Looks awful Gib. Hope it heals well. Anyone have experience with a Sawstop? Do they really work?
    Thanks,
    Woody

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    How LONG was the 2x4 ?
    Neighbor came over a few weeks ago , wanted to cut up some ply for a project on my table saw. Said nope, sorry, not set up as a contractor saw, ripping long planks only.
    Sawstop will not prevent kickback .

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Uuuh nasty, that hurts surely!
    Did that happen just recently?
    Thanks for the reminder.
    Even as a pro one gets careless with the years. Thinking one knows all the dangers.
    How wrong! A workmate of mine got his thump badly injured with a router. After doing this job for 50 years.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Jones View Post
    Yikes! Looks awful Gib. Hope it heals well. Anyone have experience with a Sawstop? Do they really work?
    Thanks,
    Woody
    Yes, there is a (scary) video of the designer putting his finger to the blade and he barely gets a nick. Usually they demo with a hot dog.

    It does trash the blade and the brake, but it beats a trip to the hospital. I triggered it once by getting a piece of metal too close. Wet/damp wood is a no-no also as that will fool the sensor and activate the brake.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed
    PAYTON 13' Pea Pod

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Yuk
    Small offrips are bad because they get snagged between the blade and the plate,then fly towards a guy.
    I don't like to touch them until they are clear of the blade.

    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Sorry to hear about this, Gib!

    Good warning, and advice, for all of us.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Found the Sawstop hotdog demo Steve mentions. Wow, very impressive!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FquL0GG9RGI

    And as Gib points out probably cheaper than a trip to the ER.

    Woody

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Williamson View Post
    Yuk
    Small offrips are bad because they get snagged between the blade and the plate,then fly towards a guy.
    I don't like to touch them until they are clear of the blade.

    R
    There may be a language barrier here, but by "plate" do you mean the rip fence?
    You should never ever cut so that the waste part comes between the fence and the blade.

    Also removing waste parts with the push stick is good measure.
    Some people put red tape around the blade part to remind them not to get their hands there, but personally I think the blade is plenty scary as it is.

    And I'd like to add that kickback can be just as, if not more, dangerous as cutting wounds, so sawstop is no guarantee for a life after woodworking. Sawstop is a great thing (from what I've heard) but you still need to play safe.

    No offence intended to Gib, I'm sure you know all this and I'm sorry for your accident and hope it will heal good.

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    How LONG was the 2x4 ?
    Neighbor came over a few weeks ago , wanted to cut up some ply for a project on my table saw. Said nope, sorry, not set up as a contractor saw, ripping long planks only.
    Sawstop will not prevent kickback .
    2x4 was 31 inches long and the scrap was to the left, away from the fence, as it should be.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by SBrookman View Post
    Yes, there is a (scary) video of the designer putting his finger to the blade and he barely gets a nick. Usually they demo with a hot dog.

    It does trash the blade and the brake, but it beats a trip to the hospital. I triggered it once by getting a piece of metal too close. Wet/damp wood is a no-no also as that will fool the sensor and activate the brake.
    Don't let that business about cutting wet lumber turn you off. The rig has a switch so you can turn it off if necessary.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    All I can say is "Oh fauwk" and add this bit of info! When I whacked my own thumb tip off, my surgeon, who re-assembled it told me to start lightly tapping the tip on a hard surface every day for as long as I could stand it. After a while the thumb became less and less sensitive to the tapping and now works fine. Mind you it is, very, light tapping!
    Jay

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by mohsart View Post
    There may be a language barrier here, but by "plate" do you mean the rip fence?
    You should never ever cut so that the waste part comes between the fence and the blade.

    Also removing waste parts with the push stick is good measure.
    Some people put red tape around the blade part to remind them not to get their hands there, but personally I think the blade is plenty scary as it is.

    And I'd like to add that kickback can be just as, if not more, dangerous as cutting wounds, so sawstop is no guarantee for a life after woodworking. Sawstop is a great thing (from what I've heard) but you still need to play safe.

    No offence intended to Gib, I'm sure you know all this and I'm sorry for your accident and hope it will heal good.

    /Mats



    Throat plate is what I mean.
    Clearing a small offrip,on the left, with your left hand, keeps it from slipping into the gap beside the blade.
    People do it all the time,but it sets you up for what happened to Gib.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Zero clearance insert is the only way yo go. Easy to make.

    Sawstop recently bought out by Festool, BTW. I wonder what that bodes?
    Steve Martinsen

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Ouch....heal quickly...

    If I was to buy a new shop saw Id seriously consider the Sawstop.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    How LONG was the 2x4 ?
    Neighbor came over a few weeks ago , wanted to cut up some ply for a project on my table saw. Said nope, sorry, not set up as a contractor saw, ripping long planks only.
    Sawstop will not prevent kickback .
    No, it will not. Nor sheer stupidity.

    There is, however, a very nice riving knife which helps prevent binding of stock behind the blade which leads to kickback. They also provide one of those over-blade dust collection/guard things with anti-kickback pawls which IMHO, are more dangerous than working without as they inhibit your view and make work akward.

    Heal well, Gib.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  24. #24
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    That is just about the most painful thing you can do to yourself. Unfortunately I speak from experience. I cut off the last 3/8" of my left index finger 29 years ago, and it still bugs me. There are more nerve endings in your fingertips than anyplace else on your body other than your lips and tongue. It's hard to hurt your tongue on a tablesaw, although it probably has been done.....

    If the Doc hasn't told you yet, this is a very serious injury. I was fortunate not to have the thumb involved, and the middle finger is a good substitute for the index, but it still effects what and how I work and type. Fortunately I don't play the violin.
    So I feel some of your pain. When the ER Dr asked if I had a few beers with lunch, I offered to take his head off.
    And just because you need to keep a sense of humor, a chestnut from The Young Adults.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nMwEV8Bi3So
    SHC

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Jones View Post
    Found the Sawstop hotdog demo Steve mentions. Wow, very impressive!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FquL0GG9RGI

    And as Gib points out probably cheaper than a trip to the ER.

    Woody
    I teach at a school where we offer adult education classes in woodworking and boatbuilding. We have two SawStop Saws. They have paid for themselves on several occasions and have saved students from serious injury. Avoiding what toll in terms of physical, emotional damage and just plain pain that you can is where it is really worth it.

    I recommend them (No personal financial or business benefit to me.) - they are good machines in terms of quality and capability. The SawStop function is icing on the cake. That said, there still is the potential for injury and you need to treat them with respect as you would any other power tool - or sharp hand tools for that matter.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  26. #26
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    I've had an extreme paranoia of tablesaws ever since my uncle had to have a thumb rebuilt out of his big toe. I couldn't afford a Sawstop, but did manage to get a decent Grizzly that has the riving knife feature. It's saved my bacon more than once, holding open stock that had serious internal stress that would have closed in on a blade for a kickback. I'm a strong adherent of push sticks and feather boards these days hoping to keep digits intact for other things...like abusing my guitar and occasionally bagpipes...not to mention the fact that fingers are pretty handy during hoisting, trimming, rowing and steering ​boats.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    I've always advocated SawStop tech in any setting where kids or amateurs use the tools. Plenty of pros have installed them, too. As the OP suggests... it only takes one small lapse to make the extra money seem trivial by comparison.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    No, it will not. Nor sheer stupidity.

    There is, however, a very nice riving knife which helps prevent binding of stock behind the blade which leads to kickback. They also provide one of those over-blade dust collection/guard things with anti-kickback pawls which IMHO, are more dangerous than working without as they inhibit your view and make work akward.

    Heal well, Gib.
    Riving knives are standard over here. As for the guard/dust-collector above the blade, I agree if you mean the ones attached to the riving knife, those are useless at best.

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student, a rigger apprentice and Journeyman http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    I once got a lighter nick from my TS.

    If I were buying a tablesaw today, it'd be a Sawstop, no question, but I have a big ol' Powermatic that's excellent in every respect except the sawstop feature and it'd cost me about $2K to make the trade. Kinda like older glass boats. They hang around and some of them are pretty good boats, making it hard to go new.

    I expect great things of the Festool-Sawstop team. Too bad for the other manufacturers. THey've been lagging in technology and they'll pay a price.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    I'd buy a sawstop as well. I have a TS and it's old and dangerous like most. Nipped my finger years ago and I'm VERY careful around it now. When I replace this one, it will be a sawstop or similar technology.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Sounds like I may have made a difference. That's a good thing.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Ether[I
    idge;5438899]Sounds like I may have made a difference. That's a good thing.
    [/I]And the word needs to get out. I didn't realize how many were getting mangled. NPR reports: Every day, more than 10 Americans suffer amputations on what is by far the most dangerous woodworking tool: the table saw.

    Boschhas a finger saving model that doesn't use a break, just retracts the blade, saving time and money.But I'm quite happy with the quality of the Sawstop.
    Steve B
    TraditionalSmallCraft.com
    RIVUS 16' Melonseed
    PAYTON 13' Pea Pod

    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    The Bosch Reaxx has been pulled from the market for violating Sawstop's patent.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    I teach at a school where we offer adult education classes in woodworking and boatbuilding. We have two SawStop Saws. They have paid for themselves on several occasions and have saved students from serious injury. Avoiding what toll in terms of physical, emotional damage and just plain pain that you can is where it is really worth it.

    I recommend them (No personal financial or business benefit to me.) - they are good machines in terms of quality and capability. The SawStop function is icing on the cake. That said, there still is the potential for injury and you need to treat them with respect as you would any other power tool - or sharp hand tools for that matter.
    What has been the physical damage to fingers/hands that youve seen with the Sawstop activated? Ive seen the hot dog demosntration at a number of trade shows and have been wondering what the actual toll on human flesh is.

    Not only is the blade brake an attractive option; the add ons that Sawstop sells appear to be very well made and engineered. I can only imagine that Festool will to the quality of the product qnd unfortunately the price. BUT judging from Gibs injury its hard to justify NOT spending the money if youre looking for a new saw.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Not nice, but necessary

    I can attest to lack of concentration, judgment, for just a second on my General TS resulted in notching the bone in the upper part of my left thumb. I was ripping 12' strip, done hundred of times, when about 8' into the cut I inexplicably decided to check the rear of the cut with the saw on, in hindsight very dumb. I was fortunate that the blade teeth only extended a bit less than the teeth hight or else my thumb would have been totally severed. I now have a crooked thumb with limited usefulness. Much as I loved my General, replaced it with a SawStop for peace of mind and to help minimize anxiety using the TS. It is a well made TS that has 2 downsides, one, requires exchanging the safety package if dado blades are used and 2, you loose the ability to use molder cutter heads. It did require a bit of adjustment for me after some 50 years of using a variety of TSs. Getting a SawStop is a wise decision however one really needs to be MINDFUL in the shop when using tools especially motorized cutting tools.

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