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Thread: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    At 30" spacing I would assume rafters. The rafters are not yet on that timber frame I posted.
    By Jackster's diagram, the rafters are part of the bents of which there are only 4. The purlins (horizontal components to nail the roof sheathing to) are spaced every 30" from the top down.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    By Jackster's diagram, the rafters are part of the bents of which there are only 4. The purlins (horizontal components to nail the roof sheathing to) are spaced every 30" from the top down.
    Two nations separated by a common language.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #73
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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    The building will be done by the time I learn the language.. Brain cells are precious at this point in life.. must pick and choose on what is stored....!

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    The building will be done by the time I learn the language.. Brain cells are precious at this point in life.. must pick and choose on what is stored....!
    "1/2 ply directly in place of the exterior sheathing, then applying building wrap and then the siding out side of that. It's about $1800 in plywood to cover.".
    I wonder how the cost would compare to stress skin panels?
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    It's a shop, right? Run the wiring in conduit higher on the wall than the tops of the work benches. Easy to access, easy to modify. Use the larger boxes and put in 2 duplex receptacles in each, and put in more of them than you think you'll need.
    It's a good idea to run receptacles on the walls behind the workbenches and also in the front of the workbenches, just below the bench tops. That way, if you are working on the bench with corded power tools, you can plug in below the lip of the bench and avoid the cord getting in the way of the work and stuff on the bench as when it's plugged into a receptacle on the wall.

    And don't forget to run both 110 VAC and 220 VAC outlets for your larger stationary power tools. 3-phase is really great and dirt cheap at commercial/agricultural rates, but you have to be zoned commercial/agricultural and be able to convince them you are setting up some sort of commercial or agricultural use that will consume enough power to make running 3-phase to the shop worth their while. They aren't so interested in running 3-phase to somebody's hobby shop and probably don't have to under the PUC rules. Commercial power rates are much lower than residential rates. My separately-metered 3-phase shop power costs less than ten bucks a month. Granted, it gets a lot less use than the house service does, but still, the difference between residential rates and commercial/agricultural rates is huge.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Just a few unsolicited comments... Looks great!

    1. Why the tongue and groove roof underlayment? That's exactly how I'd go if it were a house and appearance was important, but it's a lot of expense, I'd think, for a barn and actually less insulating in some respects. What's going on the roof? Is there a reason you haven't gone with plywood or OSB, building wrap, Styrofoam insulating sheets on top of that, and raised seam metal roofing on top of that (or whatever "best practices" they use for those systems these days. I'd think you could make the R-value whatever you wanted, depending on the thickness of the foam sheets.

    2. Why not do what our old friend, Bill Garvie, did on his metal "spar shed" at the boatyard. He built a smaller, fully insulated, enclosed area inside the less-insulated metal building (which, I assure you, had walls a lot thicker than a potato chip!) You may remember that room, just to your right in the front of the building as you walked through the door. He once explained to me that he built that insulated room so he could keep his lathe, milling machine, horizontal hacksaw, and all his tooling n that room in his shop building where it wouldn't rust. That way he didn't have to go to the expense of insulating an entire building and he could lock them up if he felt it necessary. The roof of that room was his lofting floor, actually. There was a counter-balanced hinged set of stairs that could be pulled down from above to access the lofting floor.

    3. This will really get your goat, but have you considered Hardie Board for your board and batten siding? They say it's cheaper than real wood and it's fireproof, which should significantly reduce your insurance premiums. With a metal roof and Hardie Board siding (which can be ordered in a variety of colors and textures, including rough sawn cedar painted "barn red," or any other color you want) you won't ever need to worry about re-roofing and probably not repainting, at least in your lifetime, if their advertisements are to be believed. (50 year warranty) Even if you do have to paint it, you can be you won't be having to replace planks all the time like with wood.

    I know, I'm not much fun and certainly not as much of a traditionalist when it comes to house construction as I am when it comes to traditional wooden boats, but as a practical matter, as far as weathering and termites go, I'd think an all wooden traditionally built roof and siding system would be a very expensive luxury. But if the insurance company is paying for it, what the heck, eh?

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    "1/2 ply directly in place of the exterior sheathing, then applying building wrap and then the siding out side of that. It's about $1800 in plywood to cover.".
    I wonder how the cost would compare to stress skin panels?
    My plywood estimate is based on the local rate of about $26-29/sheet (CDX 1/2" doug fir) (about 64 sheets)

    The insulation in stressed skin would be fantastic. Price check at $50+ each not including shipping would blow up the current budget, but if I get lucky and the foundation comes in under my budgeted allocation.. it's a great idea.. thanks!

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    Just a few unsolicited comments... Looks great!

    1. Why the tongue and groove roof underlayment? That's exactly how I'd go if it were a house and appearance was important, but it's a lot of expense, I'd think, for a barn and actually less insulating in some respects. What's going on the roof? Is there a reason you haven't gone with plywood or OSB, building wrap, Styrofoam insulating sheets on top of that, and raised seam metal roofing on top of that (or whatever "best practices" they use for those systems these days. I'd think you could make the R-value whatever you wanted, depending on the thickness of the foam sheets.
    T&G is industry standard in all of these kits. I just realized I mis-spoke on the thickness. This supplier is providing 1x8 T&G.. others had quoted 1x6T&G (I've received about 7 quotes so got confused..)

    The kit supplier gives you tar paper, and you are on your own for roofing. I found a good supplier for quality metal interlocking roofing. I've allocated 1 1/2" foam to go between. The sheet steel has airflow channels to keep the skin temp down on the steel so the paint doesn't degrade too quickly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post

    2. Why not do what our old friend, Bill Garvie, did on his metal "spar shed" at the boatyard. He built a smaller, fully insulated, enclosed area inside the less-insulated metal building (which, I assure you, had walls a lot thicker than a potato chip!) You may remember that room, just to your right in the front of the building as you walked through the door. He once explained to me that he built that insulated room so he could keep his lathe, milling machine, horizontal hacksaw, and all his tooling n that room in his shop building where it wouldn't rust. That way he didn't have to go to the expense of insulating an entire building and he could lock them up if he felt it necessary. The roof of that room was his lofting floor, actually. There was a counter-balanced hinged set of stairs that could be pulled down from above to access the lofting floor.
    We'll see what the budget allows. The Engineers for building and foundation are going back and forth today arguing about Seismic... My foundation guy is open to designs that keep the mods to a minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post

    3. This will really get your goat, but have you considered Hardie Board for your board and batten siding? They say it's cheaper than real wood and it's fireproof, which should significantly reduce your insurance premiums. With a metal roof and Hardie Board siding (which can be ordered in a variety of colors and textures, including rough sawn cedar painted "barn red," or any other color you want) you won't ever need to worry about re-roofing and probably not repainting, at least in your lifetime, if their advertisements are to be believed. (50 year warranty) Even if you do have to paint it, you can be you won't be having to replace planks all the time like with wood.
    I agree and I did the estimates on Hardie board for sure. You can get board and batten as well as "shingles". I couldn't beat the wood siding the supplier offers in his kits but I did try. They buy it by the hundreds of units per year and I can't get that kind of discount on Hardie board which


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    I know, I'm not much fun and certainly not as much of a traditionalist when it comes to house construction as I am when it comes to traditional wooden boats, but as a practical matter, as far as weathering and termites go, I'd think an all wooden traditionally built roof and siding system would be a very expensive luxury. But if the insurance company is paying for it, what the heck, eh?
    My original plywood barn was painted once, and never repainted (and only on the outside). Photos I have of it when it was 10 years old were still unpainted up to that point. It lasted 31 years. If I can last another 31 years, I'll be pretty happy and I intend on painting this thing..

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    I’ve been involved in the design and construction of a number of timber framed projects out there in shakey ground land including a few in your county Brian. I often wonder if they survived the fires.

    Good luck with your project. That will be a terrific shop!

    Some quake stories:

    One project outside of Santa Cruz was at the dried-in stage with most of the sheetrock up when the Loma Prieta earthquake hit. Somewhere I have a photo that the owners sent of the house (still standing) with a fissure running through their yard. Good engineering (and execution) on that one. They only had some minor sheetrock damage and one window crack. While we were erecting the frame some weeks earlier, the owner himself had taken on the task of bolting the numerous and ‘large’ post holdowns to the foundation because the general contractor had been poo-pooing the engineering ‘overkill’ of these … and everything else. The GC’s own self-built house was just a short way down the road from this site and it slid right off the foundation. 100% loss. So, moral: don’t skimp on those holdowns and lateral requirements.

    On another project in the Santa Cruz area, we had a frame going up and was just about complete when another quake hit (forget which one). I wasn’t on that job site but one of our crew was up on a beam working high in the frame when it hit. He just held on and rode it out … wondering. The only damage (other than a soiled pair of shorts and some fingernail indents high up on the frame) was one post top split about a foot caused by the racking and a knee brace acting as a fulcrum. Lucky that was all of the damage, and most importantly no injuries, because it wasn’t a complete structure yet. The engineer did an inspection of the whole frame and deemed the crack to be repairable in-situ. I think it was that quake that we ended up getting another job to replace another stick-built house that had slid off its foundation and broke up.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by J P View Post
    I’ve been involved in the design and construction of a number of timber framed projects out there in shakey ground land including a few in your county Brian. I often wonder if they survived the fires.

    Good luck with your project. That will be a terrific shop!

    Some quake stories:

    One project outside of Santa Cruz was at the dried-in stage with most of the sheetrock up when the Loma Prieta earthquake hit. Somewhere I have a photo that the owners sent of the house (still standing) with a fissure running through their yard. Good engineering (and execution) on that one. They only had some minor sheetrock damage and one window crack. While we were erecting the frame some weeks earlier, the owner himself had taken on the task of bolting the numerous and ‘large’ post holdowns to the foundation because the general contractor had been poo-pooing the engineering ‘overkill’ of these … and everything else. The GC’s own self-built house was just a short way down the road from this site and it slid right off the foundation. 100% loss. So, moral: don’t skimp on those holdowns and lateral requirements.

    On another project in the Santa Cruz area, we had a frame going up and was just about complete when another quake hit (forget which one). I wasn’t on that job site but one of our crew was up on a beam working high in the frame when it hit. He just held on and rode it out … wondering. The only damage (other than a soiled pair of shorts and some fingernail indents high up on the frame) was one post top split about a foot caused by the racking and a knee brace acting as a fulcrum. Lucky that was all of the damage, and most importantly no injuries, because it wasn’t a complete structure yet. The engineer did an inspection of the whole frame and deemed the crack to be repairable in-situ. I think it was that quake that we ended up getting another job to replace another stick-built house that had slid off its foundation and broke up.

    You know the Engineers tell you they are overbuilt.. and I've seen one in the flesh a couple of months ago up in the hills.. the mass of that timber and the 1/2" bolts really bring joy to my heart..flexible but stout... but your first hand experience really makes me feel good about the fact that they are crazy overbuilt... my stick built house, shakes and sways like mad during high winds and quakes.. so it's nice to know we have a backup shelter if needed.


    Thanks for the boost!

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    You know the Engineers tell you they are overbuilt.. and I've seen one in the flesh a couple of months ago up in the hills.. the mass of that timber and the 1/2" bolts really bring joy to my heart..flexible but stout... but your first hand experience really makes me feel good about the fact that they are crazy overbuilt... my stick built house, shakes and sways like mad during high winds and quakes.. so it's nice to know we have a backup shelter if needed.




    Thanks for the boost!
    Not all post and beam structures are created equally. Nor stick built. And not all engineers ... well, never mind, not going there.

    I should have mentioned that those two project examples above were very different frame 'styles'. The second one was a pretty standard 'western' style timber frame with 8x principle members, lots of knee braces, pegged mortise and tenon joinery. The first one did not have any knee braces and was a sort of 'Japanese' style with smaller scantlings and closer spacings, and mostly wood joinery. The roof frame scheme was a grid of rafter/purlin layers of reducing sizes. The timber in this one was milled from DF logs salvaged from Mt. St. Helens blowdown. I still have a few sticks of it.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    On the foundations front, if the existing foundations are not re-usable or the desired size, a traditional post in ground style of construction could be done relatively inexpensively as well. This is of course assuming the local building codes and regulations will allow it. but an 10' deep hole with a 12" washed gravel base, 12" concrete plug that the post timber is then set on (pack the top of the plug to taper away fromt eh post base), backfilled with clean gravel up to 8" from grade and topped off with a bentonite clay cap. This style of construction has been used successfully for barns and other wood structures successfully for a long time. Done well it keeps the posts dry and can easily stand to 100+ years. Key being taking the care to set it up right and keep the water draining away from the building.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn_Forge View Post
    On the foundations front, if the existing foundations are not re-usable or the desired size, a traditional post in ground style of construction could be done relatively inexpensively as well. This is of course assuming the local building codes and regulations will allow it. but an 10' deep hole with a 12" washed gravel base, 12" concrete plug that the post timber is then set on (pack the top of the plug to taper away fromt eh post base), backfilled with clean gravel up to 8" from grade and topped off with a bentonite clay cap. This style of construction has been used successfully for barns and other wood structures successfully for a long time. Done well it keeps the posts dry and can easily stand to 100+ years. Key being taking the care to set it up right and keep the water draining away from the building.
    Hello,

    I'm aware of this building method ("Pole Barn"). I think they are an excellent and economical method for those with sandy soil or other materials which drain. They go up with surprising speed.


    It's not a choice for me primarily because of my soil condition. I'm on almost PURE clay. As a result, no fence-post survives, no matter how poisonously it's been treated. The water simply has no place to drain away. If you dig a hole, and put in the gravel base as recommended for fence building, then put the post in, then pour the concrete, you are theoretically allowing any moisture that seeps down the wood, or into the hole to drain away. Except, it does not drain. I've been digging all last summer in drought conditions, and after I got down about 3', it's been wet.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    Hello,
    It's not a choice for me primarily because of my soil condition. I'm on almost PURE clay. As a result, no fence-post survives, no matter how poisonously it's been treated. The water simply has no place to drain away. If you dig a hole, and put in the gravel base as recommended for fence building, then put the post in, then pour the concrete, you are theoretically allowing any moisture that seeps down the wood, or into the hole to drain away. Except, it does not drain. I've been digging all last summer in drought conditions, and after I got down about 3', it's been wet.
    You are absolutely right, this is not the best method for poor draining soils or high water tables, where the piles just become effective swimming pools and wet pole feet will kill a building of this style fast.

    Anotehr alternative along these lines which actually does play nice with heavy clay subsurfacec would be screw piles. However you will probably need some engineering done to size them correctly and specify the connections from the galvanized pipe of the screw pile and your structure post. Nice thing with this being you shouldnt need to drive them too far to get sufficent bearing in a heavy wet clay condition.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    My brother used screw piles in his shop. I think he's happy with them so far but he has yet to run power to it and put siding on so he hasn't had enough time to get to know it yet.
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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    I believe the more updated version of pole barns put in sauna tubes with saddles to keep the "poles" above grade and remove/ reduce the rot problem. I don't know how this plays with CA seismic, but thought it was worth mentioning.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    GOOD NEWS UPDATE:

    The Engineers have been talking (the guy designing the barn and the guy designing the mods to the existing foundation).

    A miscommunication between Project Manager and barn Engineer had left sheathing the exterior with plywood before 1x8 siding went on as not an option.
    I had voiced a preference to leave plywood out of the it for aesthetics if possible, but being a belt and suspenders guy, surely use it if the building would benefit.

    They had beefed up the four central columns anticipating they'd need to take on most of the sheer loading for seismic. My foundation guy didn't like that approach, calculating it would not be up to the task. I got the two Engineers talking to each other, Eureka!

    If we clad in 1/2 ply, exterior walls only, and sink only 4 holes through the central sill plates and footings it will work! The exterior footings, originally designed to support a stick built barn, will otherwise take the loads. That's a pretty HUGE cost savings and meant the difference between having to take out a loan, or build this barn with the meager Fire Insurance money (well, it also includes the compensation for all my lost tools as the building itself was under-insured.. so rebuilding the tool collection will take a very long time.)

    My concern about aesthetics can also be satisfied. I can get pretty cheap 1x8's of Doug Fir in 16'-20' lengths that are Northern California Mill offcuts (lots of sapwood).

    - The Barn Engineer says it's fine for me to first nail this material over the Girts vertically.
    - I can then apply the 1/2" plywood on all the exterior walls, just using longer nails, sinking them through the 1x8's and into the Girts and Posts.
    - I can apply building paper then, to minimize drafts into the building
    - I can then apply the kit-furnished board and batten over this layer.

    The final thickness will be almost exactly 2" of solid wood. I believe this will be "adequate" to keep temp swings minimized to protect any machine surfaces from condensate???

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Great news! Getting the engineers to talk to each other is always a good thing. Years ago I built a house (earth sheltered post & beam) & had to run power & phone in about 800 ft. The phone company said underground only @ about $3k & the power company said poles only @ about $12k

    I had them meet me at the land & said "Figure this out between you. As it stands I will not hook up to power & may not do phone". This was pre-cell days. An hour later they walked up to where I was working on footings & said that the power company would put a meter on the pole & I could run underground on my side of it. Because I found a deal on burying the cable, I did both phone & power for well under $5k.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Building anything under scrutiny of regulations is always PONDEROUS. Nice to have a win once in a while.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    Building anything under scrutiny of regulations is always PONDEROUS. Nice to have a win once in a while.
    That's the beauty (and the curse) as living in my neck of the woods. No zoning, no regulations, no building department. You just let the town know you're building something so they can tax it and away you go! I'm no architect or engineer, but used my over 30 years experience in home construction to design and build a log home that has stood firm for over 20 Vermont winters.
    On the other hand, someone down the road build an absolute eyesore out of junk lumber, a hideous thing I have to drive past everyday.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    That's the beauty (and the curse) as living in my neck of the woods. No zoning, no regulations, no building department. You just let the town know you're building something so they can tax it and away you go! I'm no architect or engineer, but used my over 30 years experience in home construction to design and build a log home that has stood firm for over 20 Vermont winters.
    On the other hand, someone down the road build an absolute eyesore out of junk lumber, a hideous thing I have to drive past everyday.
    Better than a McMansion...
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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    My two cents: I’m a builder in Vermont, working for the small company my father started in 1958. A timber frame is fun to design and create. It has the feel of a large piece of furniture. The number of intact timber frame structures in NE is significant. There are downsides to this type of construction in light of modern materials and methods though.

    A single beam can weight north of 200lbs and require 3-4 strong people to place. There might be 10-20 to set, after having Bents set with a crane to the tune of $1000/day. The same crew could stand up a fully sheathed stick frame wall that is 40’ long.

    After the frame is set, you will either need to stick frame anyway for sheathing and insulation, or use some type of SIP. I personally feel that Sips are maybe the worst idea since vinyl siding, environmentally speaking. Either way, you are using enough redundant materials to build several barns/houses.

    I personally feel that the best way to insulate a timber frame is to stud it up and dense pack cellulose. It is tough to do this well without using sheet foam to properly seal the structure. Often frames get studded up and cast foam. Pricey way to go.

    A well insulated timber frame is going to have point drafts. It is impossible to prevent. This is where there will be rot problems. The air blows out, hits the dew point temperature and condenses moisture. Sips help with this to a degree.

    Good luck. I’m off to reassemble a timber frame barn today.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by John Husky View Post
    My two cents: I’m a builder in Vermont, working for the small company my father started in 1958. A timber frame is fun to design and create. It has the feel of a large piece of furniture. The number of intact timber frame structures in NE is significant. There are downsides to this type of construction in light of modern materials and methods though.

    A single beam can weight north of 200lbs and require 3-4 strong people to place. There might be 10-20 to set, after having Bents set with a crane to the tune of $1000/day. The same crew could stand up a fully sheathed stick frame wall that is 40’ long.

    After the frame is set, you will either need to stick frame anyway for sheathing and insulation, or use some type of SIP. I personally feel that Sips are maybe the worst idea since vinyl siding, environmentally speaking. Either way, you are using enough redundant materials to build several barns/houses.

    I personally feel that the best way to insulate a timber frame is to stud it up and dense pack cellulose. It is tough to do this well without using sheet foam to properly seal the structure. Often frames get studded up and cast foam. Pricey way to go.

    A well insulated timber frame is going to have point drafts. It is impossible to prevent. This is where there will be rot problems. The air blows out, hits the dew point temperature and condenses moisture. Sips help with this to a degree.

    Good luck. I’m off to reassemble a timber frame barn today.

    Hi John,

    I appreciate the detail and reality of handling the materials.

    This is an Ag building, not a home, so drafts and leaks, while not welcome, would be expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Husky View Post
    After the frame is set, you will either need to stick frame anyway for sheathing and insulation, or use some type of SIP.
    I take it when you say "frame" you mean bents connected by the beams. I'm not filling in the gaps between posts with SIPs or Stickframing, but going dead traditional (well almost):

    The (horizontal 2x6) girts spaced at 24" vertically are the next step. I welcome this as being far easier than stick building
    Next is nailing the ply to the girts.
    Then I'll tarpaper or house wrap it to kill the drafts between the seams.
    Finally the vertical board and bats.


    I have a fairly heavy tractor with a forklift attachment I plan on using to handle the individual beams to build the bents.

    To raise the bents ( there are only four of them ), I plan on renting a tele-handler for a day ($375). It has a 42' reach and a max capacity of 8000lbs.

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    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    It will be a fun project for sure. In most cases a timber frame is a far more aesthetically pleasing building, as long as that is the aesthetic you are looking for. For a barn or shed I would certainly prefer a timber frame. I’m in the middle of building a timber frame barn that we took down and moved. It is hard work. I’ll be building a boat shed this fall for my own first boatbuilding project and the level of effort involved with my job has informed that design. I have the trees and my business has a sawmill so I have a lot of options for building it in the way that I hope is the most cost effective (saving all coin possible for the boat). At this point I’m planning a modified timber frame/ stick construction. 6x6 beams and posts, knee braces and horizontal nailers. Vertical ship lap, 2x6 roof trusses spaced mightily with metal roof to shed snow. All the joinery is done with steel, no mortise and tenons.

  25. #95
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Posts
    1,122

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Well.. Progress.. FINALLY got the County to Issue me my Building Permit... except summer is almost over. I've asked the kit builder to put off shipping the lumber 'til late next spring after the ground dries out. The trucks will need to navigate a pasture and I'm not ready to tow an 18-wheeler out of clay!

    I'm laying out the foundation and will likely build the forms, and do all the rebar myself. I can't get anyone to quote the foundation who has space in their schedule 'til next year (Sonoma and Napa County fire rebuilding is yet to hit it stride, but is accelerating.. great to be a Contractor.....).

  26. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Posts
    1,122

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Last update was two months ago. Wish I could have started this next step earlier in the season before the rains start ( in a couple of weeks), but we are where we are.

    Foundation is formed, permit approved, and poured. Need to let it strengthen for three weeks (Nov 1st) before it can bear weight:


  27. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Posts
    1,122

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    This time, it's 8 inches above Mean High Water! The last barn dissolved away as the property drainage along the rear got too near the siding.


  28. #98
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Posts
    1,122

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    A very talented trucker made a 48' trailer towed by tractor with sleeper around the very tight radius (23') of my lane and he made it up to my build site last Thursday. The second trucker elected to use my neighbor's pasture and we unloaded his truck over the fence. The two truck loads delivered this:

  29. #99
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Posts
    1,122

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Each of four bents is kitted, having been previously assembled in Nebraska then taken apart. Right now I am running the forklift attachment on the tractor next to the pile and individually hauling each post/beam to the template I laid out in the gravel. Heavy stuff to push around by hand... I need to get my dad's 6' breaker bar out and use this instead of my back to nudge into position..

  30. #100
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Posts
    1,122

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    I though saw horses of wood will not be up to the task and are too high for pre-assembly, so I built these little "stools". These will also serve nicely to hold smallboats are just the right height during construction. I'm still going to brace these by tying together the 2x4's with plywood panels.. they are roughly 18" cubed.



  31. #101
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Waterbury Center, Vermont
    Posts
    73

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    This looks like a wonderful building, the size is impressive. For what it’s worth, we always build on concrete within a few days of pouring, with no ill effects. The 28 day strength is instructive, but the amount of strength to support framing is definitely provided in the first few days.

  32. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Shubenacadie NS
    Posts
    4,295

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Concrete will continue to cure for years after it's poured. I understand ancient Roman concrete is still getting stronger but someone may know more about that than I do. Looks like a great shop is in the works. Keep us informed.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  33. #103
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Posts
    1,122

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Quote Originally Posted by John Husky View Post
    This looks like a wonderful building, the size is impressive. For what it’s worth, we always build on concrete within a few days of pouring, with no ill effects. The 28 day strength is instructive, but the amount of strength to support framing is definitely provided in the first few days.
    Hi John,
    I'd like to pursue that and see if I can raise these bents more quickly. Each bent I've calculated to weight around 1800-2000 lbs, so there are four point loads at about 500# each.

    I need to attach the treated lumber sills to the perimeter, and then a piece to the 12" x 12" piers. Do you think I'll weaken those piers by drilling into them prematurely?

    Any guidance on minimum distance between edge of pier and anchor so I don't break it?


  34. #104
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Victoria BC Canada
    Posts
    263

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Brian,

    Great project, thanks for all the posts and process.

    Please tell me you're going to put in floor heating in the slab when you pour it.
    And that passive solar heating / cooling will be fully exploited.

    -Tom

  35. #105
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Posts
    1,122

    Default Re: Building a New Post and Beam Boatshop.. Materials...

    Hi Tom,

    Well.. no.. budget won't allow any new floor over the old beat up one. I'll patch the cracks and craters the fire created (concrete retains it moisture for long enough that the heat caused spalling all over the place).

    As long as I can roll equipment over the surface I'm good. Radiant heating is pretty rare in Northern California. It just doesn't get cold enough often enough to justify the cost (speaking about applications in homes only). This truly going to be an agricultural building. Electricity is my only concession really.

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