Dust Collection Questions

[neoconocephalus]

Folks,
I am looking for some comments on my plans for dust collection equipment. I have no experience with that, so most comments and opinions will be helpful.

I recently invested in some ‘better’ (for me) tools: I got a Grizzly 14” band saw and a job site table saw. My shop is in the basement of our house, in the so-called John-Deere-room, so space is limited, thus the job site saw. There is a direct connection to our living space for dust to travel, so I am in the market for a dust collector and an air filtration system.

Dust collector:
Since I am also limited electricity wise (115V only, limited amps) besides the space limitations, I have been looking at smaller (1HP) and portable units. I am planning to attach only the tool that I use and move the thing around as needed.
This is my current favorite: Grizzly G1163P 1HP, 537 CFM, 30 micron bag filter - with a 3micron replacement available. Or I put it outside, with the hose running through the cat door.
(sorry about the big pictures)
dust1.jpg


I prefer it over the G8027 (below, also 1 HP, 500CFM, similar microns) because the static pressure is much higher (7.2” v. 2.76”).
dust2.jpg

I this the G1163P (the one at the top) a useful machine to use with a band or table saw, a stationary sander, etc?
Does the difference in static pressure matter?
dust3.jpg

Air Filtration:
I hope that an air filter will keep the dust levels in the shop down in the long term and prevent most of the spread into the house. I am mostly concerned with fine dust. Plan is, to run this while I work, plus 4h afterwards, and another 4h the next morning (when I am at work). I am looking at this unit: G0738 (1/8 HP, up to 409 CFM, 1 micron)

Any thoughts on something like this? Does this help?

I appreciate any thoughts or experiences. Thanks!


BTW: I am looking at Grizzly, since I am reasonably close to their MO showroom. And picking up stuff there is always a religious (or pornographic) experience

[Ron Williamson]

I would go for more CFM vs more static pressure.
The first setup has a bag that is a dirty bitch to empty. All of the dust and chips have to go out the 4" inlet hole.
It begs for a cyclone garbage can lid,like so
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Garden/p...t=1,42401&ap=1

The second setup gives you the option to upgrade to a proper filter bag.

Given the choice,I would put it outside and push the hose through the cat door.
R

[willin woodworks]

Hard to beat a Ridgid shop vac, a cyclone lid for a garbage can and a switch that turns the vac on when the tool is turned on.
Cheaper than those big rigs, easy to move around the shop and very effective. Spend a couple bucks on fittings for each tool and youll be well served.

Any of the ceiling mounted filters are fine. Go for ease of filter changes and variety of filters.

[Paul Pless]

There is a direct connection to our living space for dust to travel, so I am in the market for a dust collector and an air filtration system.

brave man

making that job site table saw dust proof is gonna take some effort. . .

[JimConlin]

If the concern is fine dust, I'd concentrate on the bandsaw and sanders.

[George Ray]

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...highlight=dust
From the post above : Nov 2016
**************************8

Small unit:
Dust Deputy by Oneida, =>> 50 Stars !!!!
They make bigger versions of this particular inline extractor and much larger systems.

http://www.oneida-air.com/category.asp?Id={CC6B6F2A-E3D7-4F18-A53C-B5C357DFE131}

It has impressed so much we bought a second unit and recently vacuumed up the dust left from decades old loose fiberglass insulation that was on top of a 27' x 50' ceiling in a building we are gutting. I was dreading the residual dust and then ===>>> the filtering results of the 'Dust Deputy' were astounding. The little itty bitsy glass fibers in fact did get trapped and deposited by the cyclonic action and hardly any got past - Hooray !!
If I were looking for a larger system after this units stellar performance Oneida-Air would the first place I would look.



This is in fact our experience with the Dust Deputy

[snaildrake]

A couple of suggestions on top of the above advice.

1. What dust collector you buy might oughta depend on the next machine you plan on acquiring. So far If it's a planer, then you really need the higher CFM and 4" hose of a dedicated collector vs. a shop vac. A big shop vac might keep up with a portable table saw that really can't capture all the dust because of the way they're built, but not with a planer.

2. If floor space is at a premium in the basement, look at wall-mounted dust collectors or shop vacs. Mounting one high enough to put a trash can and cyclone lid underneath would put the footprint at about 24x24", half what my 220V unit takes up.

3. Contractor saw dust collection: There are "diaper" systems of canvas with snaps that will create a chute under the saw, which would challenge a shop vac. If you regularly store the thing that isn't going to work either. I made a chute for my contractor saw with masonite that works fine but took a lot of fiddling, not worth it if your time is valuable.

Cheers, Dan

[hawkeye54]

I will add one point here - a co-worker had/has a shop under the house - he found you need to pay close attention to the door sweep and seals around your access door to keep dust / sawdust from migrating to the living space. Also consider a mat to grab dust from shoes.


Rick

[neoconocephalus]

Thanks everyone for the comments, much to consider and think about.

brave man

making that job site table saw dust proof is gonna take some effort. . .

One reason for getting a job site table saw was that I can easily move it outside and work on the concrete pad in front of my shop, which I usually do unless it is so cold that my fingers stick to the table (as is now), or the skeeters are too bad. The saw has a decent dust port at the blade that gets most of the chips, even when used with a small shop vac.

If the concern is fine dust, I'd concentrate on the bandsaw and sanders.

Indeed, the band saw is my main issue. I am not brave enough to move 250lb of cast iron outside, so this is the tool that will always be used inside. And since I build SOF kayaks, lots of WRC will be ripped. The Grizzly 14" saw has only one 4" dust in the bottom housing. I am planning to use a Y and play around with a second dust input below the table.

Having the dust collector run outside is probably the the most important thing. I am still not sure whether the lower static pressure of the G8027 is a disadvantage. Size certainly is, but convenience of emptying this thing is also an important point.

Thanks again,
Johannes

[MN Dave]

The Oneida Dust Deputy (Post 6) works very well on most dust with my shop vac. It passes more plaster dust than I would like, but that stuff is very hard to separate. Other than that, very little sawdust gets to the shop vac. Large things like the odd plastic bag, long horsehair (my daughter the luthier rehairs violin bows) and paper towels pass on through. There is a larger version https://www.woodcraft.com/products/o...FQVqfgodZmgNvQ

I think that the Veirtas lid in Post 2 would work a lot better with a Thein baffle.

Everything you might want to know about DIY cyclones:
http://woodgears.ca/dust_collector/index.html

I think the Grizzly G0738 is a good idea in addition to the vacuum collector. Having said that, I just use a good fan with a furnace filter mounted in a plywood box. For the money, you get a nice unit from Grizzly, but either way the air cleans up pretty fast.

I think I will make one of these dollies to keep the vac and cyclone together.
http://woodgears.ca/reader/walters/cyclone.html

Furnace duct can be used to make a cone too. After cutting the angle, bend the last half inch over flat and it will snap into the fold to join. Not as secure as the factory fold, but that's what pop rivets are for.

[Arlc]

I have a grizzly 3 hp 220v table saw and a 2 hp 220v dust collector. The dust collector does an ok job and probably collects probably ?80% of the sawdust. This leaves a good bit to clean up or is floating around still. It’s an enclosed cabinet and I have to clean out the cabinet after projects. Moral of the story, you can’t have too much CFM. I probably would have opted for a bigger duster collector if I had knows about this 80/20 reality.

[wingless]

The Festool Dust Extraction System parts have been a real workhorse for me.

[jtdums]

Some tools make dust, and some tools make chips. Dust is the enemy here both for keeping the house clean and lungs clear.

For instance, as convenient as having a planner hooked up to a collection system is, it isn't really as important because the planer should be making chips which will blow all over the shop, but will drop to the floor readily.

The table saw on the other hand, by the nature of the blade makes both chips and dust. It takes a significant CFM to capture all the dust off the table saw(or any spinning bladed tool). Forget about using a shop vac. Since your biggest limiting factor is probably the lack of 220 in the basement, I would opt for the greatest cfm draw you can find in 110v. Even this is likely not to get it all. With a cabinet saw with dust extraction ports, overhead guard, and a big collector, a 6" main trunk line is needed to pull the kind of air to collect the fine dust produced. I don't know of a portable saw that is even set up to contain the dust enough to evacuate it. Then the ambient air cleaner may come in to help clear the dust and in your case keep it out of the house. It is going to be a challenge.

Bandsaw should be very doable and in my experience they don't produce the amounts of fine dust that you can't catch at the source.

If you use the collector to evacuate the dust directly outside, just remember that it will also very efficiently evacuate all your conditioned air out of your house too.

[Hugh Conway]

For instance, as convenient as having a planner hooked up to a collection system is, it isn't really as important because the planer should be making chips which will blow all over the shop, but will drop to the floor readily.

I found a substantial difference in dust tracked outside the shop by an undust collected planer vs. the dust collector connected planer. Without a DC there will be a pile of chips behind the planer and dust blown everywhere. Lathes are similarly horrible.

Connect everything you can. Set up your shop so there are no hidi-holes for dust. Stock storage - if laid horizontal is a great place to build up lots of dust. clean regularly.

[Jay Greer]

I have ducting and cyclone collection systems in both of my shops. This came after developing and extreme case of allergic reaction to plywood dust. In the beginning the shops I worked in had no dust collection set ups and it was often miserable to work during mill work. I first invested in several of the two bag systems that exhaust back into the shop. When that proved to be less than ideal, I went for a full cyclone and ducting connection to each machine that was a dust source. Even the cut off saw has a plenum box attached.
Jay

[David G]

As usual... there's been some good advice offered. And some less so.

Because you are pushing your luck, and will demand very good performance from the system, I can't advise you without a lot more details, and preferably seeing the place. That's not gonna happen - you need someone local. And following the general advice that's been offered here is good. But it is unlikely to get you to the level of dialed-in peak performance that your touchy situation will require.

For that reason - my advice is to find an industrial supplier with experience designing dust-collection systems who's willing to help out on a small project like yours. Pay them for a consultation and recommendations. If you don't find someone like that (even if it's free advice from someone at a local woodworking club... far less likely to discover) I'm betting you will regret it.

[DeniseO30]

As usual... there's been some good advice offered. And some less so.

Because you are pushing your luck, and will demand very good performance from the system, I can't advise you without a lot more details, and preferably seeing the place. That's not gonna happen - you need someone local. And following the general advice that's been offered here is good. But it is unlikely to get you to the level of dialed-in peak performance that your touchy situation will require.

For that reason - my advice is to find an industrial supplier with experience designing dust-collection systems who's willing to help out on a small project like yours. Pay them for a consultation and recommendations. If you don't find someone like that (even if it's free advice from someone at a local woodworking club... far less likely to discover) I'm betting you will regret it.

I can design a system that works. But then you would have to have me design a system to overcome the Heating and Cooling loss/ requirements of human beings.

Two things that make dust collection removal so difficult: horsepower, and point of use.

Great example (but very dangerous) you can stand behind the propeller of an airplane and be blown away yet you can walk right up to the front of it and not be drawn in until your within inches of it.

Industrial facilities like steel mills foundries, factories, the amount of exhaust is usually replaced by "make-up air" units. And there is still dust everywhere.

Obviously the operational costs are astronomical. Anyone with a small or even slightly industrial-sized shop finds out how quickly Heating and Cooling costs escalate when you start extracting air from the area.

Best time to do dust generating activities when you don't need Heating (or, Cooling) like you have a choice?

[Jay Greer]

You always offer sage advise and comments Denise. I failed to mention that I went with the Oneida Cyclone system for my shops. They offer a
planning program for the use of their products that was helpful.
Jay
https://www.oneida-air.com/?_vsrefdo...SAAEgJulPD_BwE

[DeniseO30]

You always offer sage advise and comments Denise. I failed to mention that I went with the Oneida Cyclone system for my shops. They offer a
planning program for the use of their products that was helpful.
Jay
https://www.oneida-air.com/?_vsrefdo...SAAEgJulPD_BwE

I have one of the little ones on my shop-vac it's pretty slick! I wish I had a larger one. I still have the 2 horsepower 2 bag collector connected to the table saw.

I spent a lot of time on Oneida's site great stuff great design help from the small DIY to the large Industrial.

Since all workshops and spaces have drafts and air currents. It's always good to create a cross or long ways flow of air towards an filtration unit.

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[wingless]

This Trane Air to Air Heat Exhanger Engineering Report is a useful reference for the various options to recover heat (cooling) energy from exhausted air. The advantages and drawbacks for the options are presented. These options are presented: Coil Loop; Heat Pipe; Fixed Plate Heat Exchanger; Fixed Membrane Heat Exchanger and Total Energy Wheel.

[DeniseO30]

This Trane Air to Air Heat Exhanger Engineering Report is a useful reference for the various options to recover heat (cooling) energy from exhausted air. The advantages and drawbacks for the options are presented. These options are presented: Coil Loop; Heat Pipe; Fixed Plate Heat Exchanger; Fixed Membrane Heat Exchanger and Total Energy Wheel.

Now you talking!


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