Storm damage

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  • Norman Bernstein
    Liberaltarian
    • Nov 2004
    • 25217

    #46
    Re: Storm damage

    Originally posted by Canoez
    Probably will need to move them. Talked to the factory?
    The factory, of course, is in France. I did manage to get a reply from Gilles Rigeaux, who is Jeanneau's guy in the US, who told me that the trick was to remove the LPG insert... but that appears to be impossible. A second email to him has gone unanswered.

    Originally posted by Canoez
    Sometimes, it pays to get a pro involved.
    I've got inquiries out, to a couple of marine stainless fabricators.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






    Comment

    • Canoeyawl
      .
      • Jun 2003
      • 37697

      #47
      Re: Storm damage

      I think I'll wait to hear from Jeanneau... and see if they have suggestions or instructions. I'm more than ever convinced that the trick will be to remove the insert mold which forms the LPG locker.... it's definitely very close to the rear two fasteners (the third, I'm fairly sure, can be reached from the starboard seat locker). The trick with removing the LPG insert mold will be in disconnecting the gas line and the scupper hose (which drains any vapor overboard).
      A new replacement locker. Cut out the old one, make the repair, glue in the new one...

      Comment

      • Norman Bernstein
        Liberaltarian
        • Nov 2004
        • 25217

        #48
        Re: Storm damage

        Originally posted by mmd
        "...who told me that the trick was to remove the LPG insert... but that appears to be impossible. A second email to him has gone unanswered."

        It could be that, as he has already told you the solution, he will no longer engage in correspondence with you when you refuse his knowledgeable answer.
        I certainly didn't 'refuse his knowledgeable answer'. I emailed him a second time because he did not answer my question about how to disconnect the vapor drain hose and gas supply hose.

        Originally posted by mmd
        Just because you do not have the required tools or skills, does not mean that the factory solution is wrong.
        It may indeed be right... but it's not like I can obtain factory service. My boat is 13 years old, well past warranty, and there IS no 'factory service'.... there is a Jeanneau dealer over in Portsmouth, but I'd have no way to get the boat there in advance of launching weather, and like most marinas, their repair queue is going to be long.

        Decent customer service should result in a willingness to answer questions. I paid nearly $1000 for the replacement stern rail... I hardly think that a few emails back and forth is some sort of undue burden on them.

        Originally posted by mmd
        It means that you either have to get the right tools and expertise, or get someone with them to do it for you. Or, you can pester other non-GRP hull technicians on an internet forum for alternate methods and eventually select one to butcher your boat with.
        I'd be happy to hire someone to do the work, but I can't.

        Just because I'm a boat owner (with 30 years of experience, at least, as an owner who has done nearly ALL my own work), is that some reason to describe me as a 'butcher'?

        Do you have some reason to be so hostile?
        "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






        Comment

        • George Jung
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2004
          • 31057

          #49
          Re: Storm damage

          Yeah. That.

          It's a conundrum, Norman. When there's no readily accessible 'pro', the options get thin. I've no answers - but am sympathetic.
          There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

          Comment

          • Norman Bernstein
            Liberaltarian
            • Nov 2004
            • 25217

            #50
            Re: Storm damage

            Originally posted by mmd
            Not hostile, Norman; frustrated with your public dithering. You were told how to effect the repair. If you are limited by your toolbox, either buy or make the required tool. I described the notion of cutting through the exterior surface of your mirror-surface molded hull and 'fixing' the hole with cheesy plastic access hatches unnecessary butchery. I reiterate: you have been told how to do the repair, it is now up to you to figure out how to effect it. (Hint: It will not require cutting holes in the sides of your boat.)
            I haven't been TOLD how to make the repair... several very reasonable questions were not answered. My toolbox isn't at fault... and I have no idea if this particular repair has ever had to be accomplished, anyhow.... from 30 years of ownership of production fiberglass boats, i KNOW that future access and repairs is not always factored into the manufacturing process... in fact, I was present when the hull and deck molds of my last boat were mated, and I can assure you that there are MANY fittings that cannot be reached after final assembly, in boats of this type. Blame the manufacturers, if you like.

            You're pretty judgmental, about a problem you haven't ever seen and know nothing about, other than to criticize.
            "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






            Comment

            • Paul Pless
              pinko commie tree hugger
              • Oct 2003
              • 124802

              #51
              Re: Storm damage

              wow, two guys i like going at it hammer & tongs
              Last edited by Paul Pless; 02-22-2018, 01:33 PM.
              Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

              Comment

              • Norman Bernstein
                Liberaltarian
                • Nov 2004
                • 25217

                #52
                Re: Storm damage

                Originally posted by mmd
                OK, Norman; I know nothing about building and repairing production GRP yachts. Right...
                Have you ever replaced the starboard stern rail on a 2005 Jeanneau 43DS?

                If not, then I submit you know nothing about the problem, do you?
                "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






                Comment

                • Paul Pless
                  pinko commie tree hugger
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 124802

                  #53
                  Re: Storm damage

                  Originally posted by Paul Pless
                  wow, two guys i like going at it hammer & tongs
                  over a boat question. . .
                  Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

                  Comment

                  • Paul Pless
                    pinko commie tree hugger
                    • Oct 2003
                    • 124802

                    #54
                    Re: Storm damage

                    Originally posted by Paul Pless
                    wow, two guys i like going at it hammer & tongs
                    Originally posted by Paul Pless
                    over a boat question. . .
                    in the bilge
                    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

                    Comment

                    • George Jung
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 31057

                      #55
                      Re: Storm damage

                      Heeheehee.... yer a good 'un, Pless! 'Here, hold my beer while I spray a lil' gas on this fire'....
                      There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

                      Comment

                      • Norman Bernstein
                        Liberaltarian
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 25217

                        #56
                        Re: Storm damage

                        Originally posted by mmd
                        I know how to get the LPG locker liner out. That's enough for now.
                        Ohh, really? You've removed the LPG locker liner on a 2005 Jeanneau 43DS?

                        Never mind. You're more interested in being judgmental and critical, than helpful.
                        "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






                        Comment

                        • Norman Bernstein
                          Liberaltarian
                          • Nov 2004
                          • 25217

                          #57
                          Re: Storm damage

                          Originally posted by mmd
                          No, Norman, it is your predilection to indignant hurt that is getting in the way. I can see from your pictures that the liner was dropped in place and is held there by a bead of silicone around the lip. This is a common method of assembly. I can see that you have tried to cut the silicone with a utility knife, but there are obstacles to your being able to cut all the way 'round the lip. You need a different tool, one that you will have to make. Take a steel paint stirrer and heat the end with a torch so you can bend the tip in a vise into a 90-deg. tang. Cut the tang roughly as long as the width of the liner lip. Grind both sides of the tang to a min. 30-deg. angle, then sharpen the edges to a razor edge. With a light hammer, tap the pointed edge of your new tool into the silicone under the liner lip, then tap it along the lip so that it cuts the silicone all the way around the liner. Holding the tool in a pair of vise grips will make it easier to hold it in the proper orientation as you tap the tool along its path. When done, used small wooden wedges to lift the lip away from the GRP base, cutting additionally with your new tool as needed. Is that more helpful than critical?
                          I'd already thought of makeshift tools to loosen the lip. Yes, I'm sure it can be done... but to what avail?

                          That does NOT solve the problem of the vent hose and the gas supply line. I can SEE those, via an access cover in the aft cabin... and there is NO slack... nor is there a way to reach the opposite ends of those hoses, to release them, nor feed them back to where they go. Without slack, that insert could probably only be lifted a few inches... so it would do me no good. They did NOT design this feature with service access in mind.

                          Having owned 5 different production fiberglass boats, I'm well aware that the designers do NOT consider access for many different fittings, after final assembly, and this is a good example.

                          As I've tried to point out, you have to be familiar with a specific boat, to see the problems. My years of experience with other boats don't serve me, at all, in dealing with THIS particular problem.
                          "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






                          Comment

                          • Norman Bernstein
                            Liberaltarian
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 25217

                            #58
                            Re: Storm damage

                            Originally posted by mmd
                            OK, then; I am an idiot and a charlatan. Time for a chainsaw. Have at it, Norman.
                            Well, you're the expert, right? A professional? So, you must have a solution for the problem of the hoses.

                            What is it?
                            "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






                            Comment

                            • Norman Bernstein
                              Liberaltarian
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 25217

                              #59
                              Re: Storm damage

                              Originally posted by mmd
                              Why, yes; I am an expert and a professional in my field, as are you in yours. What is your charge-out rate for solving other people's problems?
                              Here in the bilge, when someone asks me a question because I have expertise in the field of inquiry, I charge NOTHING... because this is a community, and I'm happy to help.

                              What do YOU charge, to your friends in the bilge, for answering a question?
                              "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






                              Comment

                              • Canoeyawl
                                .
                                • Jun 2003
                                • 37697

                                #60
                                Re: Storm damage

                                google> hook knife, carving...



                                ebay;

                                Comment

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