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Thread: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

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    Default Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    MINOCQUA designed by Thomas Clapham and the v bottomed sharpie on page 52 of Howard I. Chapelles "Boatbuilding" look like the same boat.

    Only the rigs are different. They both have that clipper bow.

    I just noticed it tonight. Does anyone else notice this?
    drawing of Minocqua below.

    Below is the drawing of Chappelle's Modified Sharpie.
    Last edited by donald branscom; 12-15-2017 at 09:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    They share the same beam, but otherwise dimensions differ slightly. Biggest difference is that Minocque has greater draft with a deeper keel and large outside ballast.
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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    They share the same beam, but otherwise dimensions differ slightly. Biggest difference is that Minocque has greater draft with a deeper keel and large outside ballast.
    The draft is only a 5 inch difference and maybe it is that outside ballast that makes it sit lower in the water.
    The Chapelle modified sharpie drawing does not show any ballast information.
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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Hold on..... Hold on, lets back up a few steps.
    The print is small but the MINOCQUA is 8 feet 8 inch beam and the Chappelle sharpie is 7 FEET 8 inch beam.
    That would be a big difference.
    I see two versions of Chappelle's boat online.
    One says beam is 7' 8" and another drawing shows 8' 8".
    I do not have the book "Boatbuilding" by Chappelle so I cannot check.

    I sure would like to know which measurement is correct.
    Last edited by donald branscom; 12-17-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by donald branscom View Post
    MINOCQUA designed by Thomas Clapham and the v bottomed sharpie on page 52 of Howard I. Chapelles "Boatbuilding" look like the same boat.

    Only the rigs are different. They both have that clipper bow.

    I just noticed it tonight. Does anyone else notice this?
    drawing of Minocqua below.

    Below is the drawing of Chappelle's Modified Sharpie.
    Both drawings are either odd, or indicate two different versions of each boat. The Clapham boat has two versions of the centre board, the dotted version for a boat with a shallow keel and no outside ballast. The way the keel is drawn really looks like an afterthought. The Chappelle drawing has a main mast in the middle of the hatch slide???
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Both drawings are either odd, or indicate two different versions of each boat. The Clapham boat has two versions of the centre board, the dotted version for a boat with a shallow keel and no outside ballast. The way the keel is drawn really looks like an afterthought. The Chappelle drawing has a main mast in the middle of the hatch slide???
    The Chappelle boat has the hatch off center is all.
    Do you have the book "boatbuilding"?
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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    The Chappele book says 8ft 8in for the beam. As Nick says, and in the back of the "sharpie book". Minoqua had two keel options.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    The Chappele book says 8ft 8in for the beam. As Nick says, and in the back of the "sharpie book". Minoqua had two keel options.

    Thanks Skaraborgcraft!
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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    I've found scarce information on plans for smaller modified/V-bottom sharpies, not necessarily along the lines of MINOCQUA but similar (although I like the clipper bow look, I don't know I'd want that on a smaller (20' or less) sharpie). Anyone come across something like that?

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Different transoms on those two boats, btw.

    schoonerjay: I've found scarce information on plans for smaller modified/V-bottom sharpies, not necessarily along the lines of MINOCQUA but similar (although I like the clipper bow look, I don't know I'd want that on a smaller (20' or less) sharpie). Anyone come across something like that?
    Chapelle's pamphlet "Chesapeake Bay Crabbing Skiffs," is a great start. Plus Reuel Parker's "The Sharpie Book," if you're not already familiar with it.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by DGentry View Post
    Different transoms on those two boats, btw.



    Chapelle's pamphlet "Chesapeake Bay Crabbing Skiffs," is a great start. Plus Reuel Parker's "The Sharpie Book," if you're not already familiar with it.
    Yes..... I would like to get the Reuel Parker's "The Sharpie Book.
    Maybe Santa will bring it.
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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Gifted by my dad years ago, actually! Parker's book actually doesn't detail a V-bottomed or modified sharpie except to reprint lines for MINOCQUA with (if I recall correctly) modifications to suit his particular preference for construction (ring frames?). I will have a look at the Chapelle pamphlet, thank you!

    Come to think of it more, I think I'm wrong about Parker's book - I do believe it has a version of the Chesapeake Bay crabbing skiff with some deadrise incorporated.
    Last edited by schoonerjay; 12-20-2017 at 09:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    I think if you start looking at the lines the 2 have number of differences. The Chapelle is a schooner while the Minoqua is a ketch. The Chapelle has a little less rocker in the hull and a lower cabin profile. The Minoqua has a little more shear towards the bow in the deck line.
    The Chapelle in the book looks to be a development of an earlier design of his, a 38ft schooner from 1938. The one in the book is nominally 36ft and dated in the 40's. Minoqua would be a far bit older.
    I have copies of plans of all 3 of them.
    Zane

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    well having looked at the 2 plans my memory is not up to play. nb Minoqua is dated 1892




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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    One of the most distinctive differences between the two plans is the shape of the forefoot. Chapelle keeps the bottom sections parallel: easy to plank but may pound a bit more. Clapham has a twist to vertical for a finer entrance that would require sculpting out of a log or cross planks in the manner of a Chesapeake skipjack.
    Peter Belenky

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Belenky View Post
    One of the most distinctive differences between the two plans is the shape of the forefoot. Chapelle keeps the bottom sections parallel: easy to plank but may pound a bit more. Clapham has a twist to vertical for a finer entrance that would require sculpting out of a log or cross planks in the manner of a Chesapeake skipjack.
    Is there any reason planks couldn't be steamed to allow bending to shape? Not necessarily traditional to the working skiffs but otherwise I shouldn't think it would be any less functional?

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by schoonerjay View Post
    Is there any reason planks couldn't be steamed to allow bending to shape? Not necessarily traditional to the working skiffs but otherwise I shouldn't think it would be any less functional?
    With a small degree of twist, a long length of plank to allow gradual change of angle, and/or thin planks to bend more easily, it could be done that way. The extreme example is molded veneers. In this case, it looks like a large twist in thickish planks over a short run.
    Peter Belenky

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Belenky View Post
    With a small degree of twist, a long length of plank to allow gradual change of angle, and/or thin planks to bend more easily, it could be done that way. The extreme example is molded veneers. In this case, it looks like a large twist in thickish planks over a short run.
    No intent to quibble on my part, but looking at the line drawing the angle on the bottom as it arives at the bow seems constant eliminating twist. Fitting the gardboard to the curve of the stem through the knee would be more of a challenge then the straight shot of Chapelle's drawing. Just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Does Chapelle include offsets for his drawing? I lost my copy of his book sometime ago and don't have access to the info.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Just my opinion.
    Mine, too. Schoonerjay and I were talking about the twist in Minocqua's garboard, as are you, I think.
    Peter Belenky

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Yes as I am. It doesn't really twist. The plank is controlled by the chine and the angle of the bottom. The plank meets the stem at the angle of the bottom below the chine. The entry of the bow is pretty fine so bending in the pointed plank end wouldn't be that hard. If the stem extended lower and had a greater distance bellow the chine so it required a vertical orientation then it would be a major twist. It's easiest to see looking at the sectional drawing.
    Last edited by navydog; 01-04-2018 at 09:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    I can't say anything beyond pure speculation. Navydog, there are no offsets in the book, but Chapelle's plans can be obtained from the Smithsonian. http://americanhistory.si.edu/about/...try/ship-plans
    Peter Belenky

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Belenky View Post
    I can't say anything beyond pure speculation. [/URL]
    Your speculating about the twist? That's why I joined the conversation. I have a considerable amount of experience in boat building to share.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Peter, Thank you for the link. As much as I like this boat design if I build another boat I want it to be about 28' and with less draft so I would have to redesign it.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    I made a 24" mock-up of Minocqua using Chapelle's lines, or what I though they should be. I didn't use any measurements or offsets to develop the molds. I traced Chappelle's lines with Corell Draw and then cut them out with a laser.

    I made the model with some scrap plywood so it's not real pretty, but the main thing is I get a better idea what her bottom looks like. The cabin ended up taller than I like but no biggie. This model is sorta rough but I can see where to go to modify Minocqua for my own purposes.
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    Last edited by navydog; 01-17-2018 at 10:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Interesting. I think a tall cabin isn't beautiful, but on a shallow hull it's a way to get headroom. There are ways to reduce it's visual impact. A bulwark on deck, painted the same color as the hull will help.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    A coaming around the cockpit would lessen the effect as well. I'll put the coaming on and add the chine logs then leave it at that. The transom in the drawing isn't anywhere near correct, it might work out at 90* to the water line, but at the angle it's drawn not a chance.
    Last edited by navydog; 01-18-2018 at 12:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Regarding the transom, is that just visual aesthetics or practicalities (whether construction challenges, loss of usable space, or safety with a following sea)?

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    The over hang gives additional buoyancy and is visually a piece of art. The steeply raked transom (combined with the over hang) will help the boat rise to a wave and not pound as hard as a more vertical transom.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Yes...Bulwarks would hide some of that height of the cabin.
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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Navydog, I may not have represented my question above well! I was referencing your statement above that as drawn the transom doesn't stand a chance and was curious, in my ignorance, what you meant by that. Thanks so much for helping us understand!

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Oh sorry. The dimensions of the transom in the station view is drawn perpendicular to the water line, representing a much smaller piece. At the true angle from the body view (side view) the dimension is inches longer top to bottom. If you were lofting the boat it would get picked up. I didn't spend the time to fair or measure anything so it's just a rough draft and I didn't make a transom. It would easy to set it up I just need a piece of softwood to make one. My laser only 90^ cuts so angles have to be hand made.

    I could cut all the parts out if anyone wants to assemble their own since I have the drawing. I'D have straighten a few things out first, but that's not to big of a problem.

    I'm working on lines of Parker's 28' Egret for a study model with a curved bottom using 1'=1" scale. I'll post a thread on it in a few days.
    Last edited by navydog; 01-20-2018 at 06:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Minoqua and boat on page 53 of Boatbuilding the same?

    Thank you, I can see that now you point it out! Will be neat to see your model thread.

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