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Thread: Bitcoin frenzy

  1. #1
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    Default Bitcoin frenzy

    This digital currency goes up in value by about a thousand percent every few months, interspersed with a drop in half everytime it gets threats of being banned or whatever. Put aside the BORING debate about whether it's a suicide bubble or a trend to at least temporarily ride higher - here is one person's hit and miss narrative with it:

    - First just an amused observer from the sidelines.

    - Then a dufus state bureaucrat makes a ruling here that makes it impossible to buy bitcoin without paying double for it (bank must hold half in reserve).

    - Get infuriated to be in one of the 3 states with overprotective ban, so seek how to put some crazy (expendable) money on it.

    - Find etfs GBTC and BTSC which hold bitcoin and trade like stocks - again at about twice the price as their bitcoins!

    - Buy a handful because hope to find a greater fool to sell to. Shoots up in value so buy more but then experience a severe crash.

    - Realize I should just hold on, but is more comforting to sell at a loss and wait for an uptrend.

    - Uptrend eventually resumes, I buy in and more than double the money in a couple weeks (holding would have given triple).

    - Try to add more, but hit a new fatal buy restriction

    - Research the news of coming ability to buy bitcoin futures, but I hate the geeky method you have to use. Find hints of a simple approach.

    - With endless searches, find an obscure way to buy a stock in a little country that holds bitcoins at actual value. I appear to have cleared all the permission hurdles and now just have to wait for the brief overlap of different business hours. Not gonna reveal the secret method unless we can pass thru another crash in bitcoin price without me being ridiculed here
    Last edited by rudderless; 12-06-2017 at 09:16 PM.

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    Default

    I don't understand the phenomena at all. Good for you if you have made money trading bitcoins, but I am not upset about the lost opportunity.

    Where is the underlying value?

    Bitcoin is not money. It's nothing of any substance. It is not money:
    It is not a stable store of value.
    It is not a unit of accounting measure for any business in the world.
    It is not a medium of exchange of goods and services.

    So you are not trading currency ( since it's not currency)

    Someday, we will look back on this Bitcoin trading the same way we think of the Dutch tulip bubble if the 17th century.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Most of your criticisms are of little concern to a momentum trader, just surfing the psychological driven trends until it's time to hand your bitcoins to a greater fool when it is looking terminally unsteady. I think there is value, although I don't care if there is none. There are ethical concerns, and some think recent attempts to supress criminal abuse of bitcoin will even enhance its value.

    If you look at which countries use it and when, it appears to be solving actual and transient problems in a more convenient fashion than the conventional use of gold in distressed countries. So with insane inflation in Venezuela and economic repression elsewhere, there is demand for mining new coins more than the cutback of use in richer countries like China. Some only need to hold coins for a fraction of a second for a useful transaction.

    I have used naive momentum trading especially in the 90's in your state and managed an early retirement from a small starting base, chasing the emerging markets and tech bubble. If you catch the trends early, you build up enough safety margin to end up ahead even with a 50% meltdown.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I don't understand the phenomena at all. Good for you if you have made money trading bitcoins, but I am not upset about the lost opportunity.

    Where is the underlying value?

    Bitcoin is not money. It's nothing of any substance. It is not money:
    It is not a stable store of value.
    It is not a unit of accounting measure for any business in the world.
    It is not a medium of exchange of goods and services.

    So you are not trading currency ( since it's not currency)

    Someday, we will look back on this Bitcoin trading the same way we think of the Dutch tulip bubble if the 17th century.

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
    Hate to break it to you, but "Money" has no underlying value either. That hundred dollar bill is a piece of paper, with minimal intrinsic value, and no pile of gold backing it up. The only difference is that governments have some vested interest in maintaining a modicum of stability in their currencies, to stop the natives getting too restless.
    Bitcoin is EVERYTHING above, that you say it isn't, apart from being a government sanctioned "currency". Well, maybe not stable, but most definitely a medium of exchange, and accepted by an ever increasing number of busineses globally - except maybe the US?

    Pete
    Last edited by epoxyboy; 12-07-2017 at 01:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    It is not a medium of exchange of goods and services.
    This is not true.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    This is not true.
    you did read the very first line of his post right?

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I don't understand the phenomena at all.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    All booms bust.

    Remember, you heard it here first.

    Don't thank me... just take the advice.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    If you bought in at less than a dollar and sold out today.....who cares if it booms. As always, greedy pigs get slaughtered.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    i wonder if you could correlate the manic depression swings coming out of North Korea with the vagaries of the bitcoin market over time. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i wonder if you could correlate the manic depression swings coming out of North Korea with the vagaries of the bitcoin market over time. . .
    Coming out of NK, or out of Washington?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    The White House is more concerned with Ruble, no?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I don't understand the phenomena at all. Good for you if you have made money trading bitcoins, but I am not upset about the lost opportunity.
    I am in complete agreement. A person can speculate in pretty much anything, and some will win, some will lose... all that is needed is some 'commodity' that exhibits extreme volatility. At the moment, the commodity with extreme volatility is Bitcoin, so it's not surprising that speculators are chasing it.

    Personally, I don't care to take risks like that... I've worked too hard over my life to suffer a potential big loss, in trying to make some sort of 'big score'. I like money as much as anyone, but not THAT much. As I said, the phenomenon produces as many losers as there are winners.... if you're not betting on the long term appreciation of bitcoin, then you're simply hoping to 'get lucky'... it's not much different than spending a weekend in Las Vegas.

    I'd rather be building value, than risking it.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    This is not true.
    It most certainly is. No one is saying "pay me a salary of X bitcoins". No one is pricing their products for sale in bitcoins. No one is pricing their services in bitcoins. Now, there may be websites which take payments in bitcoins, but that is not the same thing if they actually determine their prices in dollars (or some other real currency) and give you and instantaneous quote, and immediately sell the bitcoins after the purchase.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    Hate to break it to you, but "Money" has no underlying value either. That hundred dollar bill is a piece of paper, with minimal intrinsic value, and no pile of gold backing it up. The only difference is that governments have some vested interest in maintaining a modicum of stability in their currencies, to stop the natives getting too restless.
    Bitcoin is EVERYTHING above, that you say it isn't, apart from being a government sanctioned "currency". Well, maybe not stable, but most definitely a medium of exchange, and accepted by an ever increasing number of busineses globally - except maybe the US?

    Pete
    Dollars, Euros, etc actually do have an underlying value. It is certainly an intangible value, but it can be readily converted into any goods and services

    Bitcoins are everything above? I already addressed the medium of exchange. What about store of value? They are not. Huge swings up or down do not make a store of value. When a currency goes up in value, that is called deflation. Deflation is just as bad as inflation, when a currency goes down. I can put real money in a bank account or in a safe or in a mattress, and I can roughly estimate loss of value due to inflation, and I have a fairly accurate idea of the value of that money after a certain point it time. That is what a store of value is.

    Is it used as an accounting unit of measure anywhere? No. Show me one person/business, even a bitcoin trader, who tracks their financial status and transactions in bitcoins.

    Bitcoins are not money.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    you did read the very first line of his post right?
    Very good Paul. I am waiting for someone to enlighten me.

    And let me add: I don't have a problem with the concept of an actual crypto-currency. I think it would be a great thing if the Fed implemented a version of the dollar in a digital currency that was guaranteed to be convertible to and from conventional dollars. Having a percentage of our money supply outside the banking system would not be a bad thing. In the past we always had this, because cash was so much more necessary for everyday life. People actually "went to cash" with actual cash 100 years ago when they didn't trust a bank. That possibility would keep our banking system a little more "honest" IMO.

    But I see lots of flaws in bitcoins. It will never do the job.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    To reinforce the argument:

    The value of ANY kind of 'money' (i.e., something used as a placeholder for value, either printed on paper, or coined) is 100% related to 'faith'. It is the faith that the money can be exchanged for goods and services, and the 'buying power' of that exchange will remain relatively stable... not perfectly stable, but stable enough so that the buying power doesn't change radically on a short term basis.

    Dollars, Euros, Sheckels, or any other denomination share that characteristic.

    There is nowhere in this country that you cannot buy 20 gallons of gas, a standing rib roast, a circular saw, or a prescription for amoxicillin, with US dollars. Furthermore, though the price of those goods may change... a little... from day to day, week to week, or month to month, the change will not be so large as to affect the utility of the money.

    Gold does not share that characteristic. The only place you can get value, for gold, would be with a gold dealer, whose profit margin will automatically reduce the value of the exchange. You can't eat gold, or run your car on it. A doctor won't take it for treatment. You can't pay your mortgage with it. For all of those goods and services, you MUST convert your gold, to dollars.

    Bitcoin? I wouldn't accept a bitcoin for MY services.... because I'd have no idea of the value of it, relative to things that *I* need to buy. Sure, I could go online and look up the instantaneous value of a bitcoin... but would have no assurance that when I went to change it into money I CAN use, that it might not be worth 20% less than I presumed, when I accepted it.

    So, who are the people trading bitcoin?

    Speculators... people whose ONLY reason for buying bitcoins is the expectation that they can make money as a result of bitcoin's volatility. And what do they do, if they buy a bitcoin for $2000, and the next week, it's $4000? They sell it, and pocket the profit. So they keep it? Of COURSE not, because it may drop in value to $1000, two weeks from now.

    Bitcoin is a medium for gambling... it is NOT money, by any stretch of the imagination.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    I was recently hired to shoot a series of videos bringing in programmers into creating the frame work for cryptocurrencies. The main sponsors were some sand hill bankers, Disney, and other notable respected corporate interests. Their position was eye opening

    Bitcoin is part of a grander international conspiracy to hid foreign transfers of wealth. It is ways sanctioned nations and those with wealth or income move cash without regard or interference from nations and international monetary watch groups. The effects are being felt already in the large scale real estate holdings by China based goverment sponsored companies, Narco interests, North Korean business and African dictators. As the rules and permissions are created to protect the states: the other side of the desk programmers are equally busy building work-a-rounds to hid the digital signatures and traces.

    Cryptocurrency or legitimized kleptocurrency - the way criminals and powerful do move money without a signature should be every bit as frightening to people for numerous illicit ways and help move 1/3 of all black and dark money cleanly without needing additional middleman laundering. The cryptocurrency is being sold as world jobs program and a solution of monetary parity but in fact it may turn to be a Trojan horse to the current international financial stability and changing the ways international oligarchs are rewriting the rules for global power.

    the first changes here in California and Australia is that real easte is being bought sight unseen after cyrptocurrencies from China are converted to national currencies. The value of these currencies have remained high as China moves 35 billion a month from inside the country to international investments. Once one has real estate holdings, the legitimate interests are directly recognized and local/regional control follow.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 12-07-2017 at 10:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein
    Bitcoin is a medium for gambling... it is NOT money, by any stretch of the imagination.
    I agree with this. It is worth while to look at three terms closely: investing, speculation, and gambling

    There is sometimes a fine line between speculation and investing. But in general, when you invest you are buying something that has an underlying tangible value. Now, that value may be very hard or even impossible to accurately determine, but it is there. The market may get the price discovery very wrong at times, but there is a value. AND it can be reasonably expected that the underlying value is going to increase over time. So investing should never be a zero-sum game.

    Speculation misses the last point. Speculation is often (perhaps always) a zero sum game. If I buy a stock in a company, the value is a combination of a percentage of the net assets and a percentage of future earnings of the company. If I buy an option to the stock, there is an underlying tangible value. But that value, in and of itself cannot be expected to go up over time. It is a zero-sum game between the buyer and the seller of the option.

    Gambling vs speculation is perhaps even more difficult to envision. And one can make the reasonable argument that they are the same thing. I believe the main difference is that speculation actually serves a benefit relative to the economy as a whole. It is certainly a good thing that farmers can hedge their crops, this could not be done if there were not speculators willing to bet on the outcome.

    If I am correct about the difference between gambling and speculation (and I strongly feel that I am), then trading bitcoins is pure gambling. It is not even speculation.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    I was recently hired to shoot a series of videos bringing in programmers into creating the frame work for cryptocurrencies. The main sponsors were some sand hill bankers, Disney, and other notable respected corporate interests. Their position was eyenopening.

    Bitcoin is part of a grander international conspiracy to hid foreign transfers of wealth. It is ways sanctioned nations and those with wealth or income move cash without regard or interference from nations and international monetary watch groups. The effects are being felt already in the large scale real estate holdings by China based goverment sponsored companies, Narco interests, North Korean business and African dictators. As the rules and permissions are created as too are the work-a-rounds to hid the digital signatures.

    Cryptocurrency or legitimized kleptocurrency - the way criminals and powerful do move money without a signature should be every bit as frightening to people for numerous illicit ways and help move 1/3 of all black and dark money cleanly without needing additional middleman laundering. The cryptocurrency is being sold as world jobs program and a solution of monetary parity but in fact it may turn to be a Trojan horse to the current international financial stability.
    Ted, I believe this is a very good point also. A very, very good point. As a conservative, and with an admittedly libertarian personality streak that I am always fighting, I certainly don't always trust governments and love it when the masses of people find they can do things without government involvement. But there are things that are dangerous without any societal oversight. Bitcoin is one of them

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    I agree with this. It is worth while to look at three terms closely: investing, speculation, and gambling

    There is sometimes a fine line between speculation and investing. But in general, when you invest you are buying something that has an underlying tangible value.
    I would agree.

    One way I look at it (and you may differ with this rather primitive analysis), is to consider the P/E ratio of a stock. A P/E ratio of 20, in a VERY gross way, presumes something like a 5% profit margin for the company whose stock I'm buying. If the P/E is lower, the profitability is even greater... so I can expect that the value of that stock, and/or the dividends I receive by owning the stock, are supported by that profitability.

    If the company grows, without increasing profitability, I get the benefit of that growth, as well as the earnings. A good scenario is when, over the course of the long term, the value of the stock grows, in excess of the presumed profitability, but the dividends increase proportionately.

    This is investing.

    What about the companies whose P/E's are astronomically high?

    That is speculation... it's a value based on the speculative presumption about what the company is likely to be able to do, in the future. It is NOT a reflection of current profitability, nor of growth.

    I'm mostly an investor, not a speculator... so my expectations of growth and profitability are in line with 'reality', not presumptions about the future.

    Does this pay off? Consider just one stock I own: Analog Devices (ADI), which is my former company that I spent 18 years with, but left 25 years ago. One 'lot' of ADI stock I own, bought in 1998, has appreciated a whopping 1,098.14% in the past 18 years. It currently pays a modest 2.11% dividend, and has a forward P/E of only 16.5 or so.... hardly a 'high flyer'.. but I'm sure glad as hell that I bought it.. and HELD it... all these years.

    Now, this doesn't mean that a person can't do well, in the short term, either. I bought QCOM just a few months ago, and it's already up nearly 30% from my buy price.... but I bought it for the sake of it's long term potential, NOT because I thought I'd make a quick killing in it. I have also LOST money on the same basis... for example, I bought GE about 4 months ago, and am down 29% on it... but, once again, I still think the stock looks good, in the long term.

    I don't disrespect speculation, per se... in the distant past, I did some of that... short term trading... and did reasonably well (although not without some losses, from time to time)...

    ...but Bitcoin isn't speculation, it's gambling. Speculators buy because they think they have a REASON to believe that the value of an investment will rise, in the short term. People who trade bitcoin can't point to anything to support their expectation or hope that the value of their bitcoin will rise.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    It is interesting to note how many of you are antisapating or speculating on what is essentially in its current form a criminal and foreign state sponsored purpose driven endevour.

    The speculation of bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies is like Uber and lift ride sharing services. A trusted source to move currency with a recognized driver. The use of Bitcoin is to move one currency to another with less loss when washing the money. Volatility of the bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is based on who using the vehicle at any given time much like surge pricing in an Uber in an urban area.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Norman, I thought no it would be worthwhile for a lot f folks to actually have a thread on the concepts of investing vs speculation vs gambling. This is something I have thought about a lot, and I believe it is an important financial topic for many and that it is not often addressed by the financial industry.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Norman, I thought no it would be worthwhile for a lot f folks to actually have a thread on the concepts of investing vs speculation vs gambling. This is something I have thought about a lot, and I believe it is an important financial topic for many and that it is not often addressed by the financial industry.
    I quite agree... and frankly, even THAT topic may be too sophisticated for a lot of people who (and I'm not BLAMING them) know so little about investing. I encounter lots of people, all the time, who don't give the issue of investing for the future, or retirement, a second thought... until they suddenly arrive at retirement and realize that they are totally unprepared.

    In particular, I'm thinking of a couple my wife and I are friendly with... the husband was a high school guidance counselor... the wife, a teacher who became a principal, and then a superintendent of schools (earning BIG bucks, I might add), but who didn't prepare for retirement. I had presumed, based mostly on the fact that she was pulling in a substantial salary as a school system superintendent, as well as the fact that they had bought a 41' sailboat, that they were pretty well off. They seemed to live very well, in a gorgeous townhouse in an over-55 development ,not far from us....

    ...but my wife, who has dinner with the woman from time to time, reports that she is embittered by the fact that they have 'no savings', and money is tight. I can only presume that they paid truly inadequate attention to investing, through their working lives.

    I determined long ago, NOT to be put into a position like that.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by rudderless View Post
    Put aside the BORING debate about whether it's a suicide bubble or a trend to at least temporarily ride higher - here is one person's hit and miss narrative with it:
    - BTSC etf: fell by 25% so far today and more yesterday. As an owner of thousands of shares I am totally unconcerned - it was just a mystery penny stock that cost little to get into. It used to exaggerate the moves of bitcoin but now it is down when bitcoin is up... maybe headed for zero, but sooner than I expected.

    - GBTC etf is allowing trades again. It is only up by about 6% today while bitcoin seems up it's usual double or triple that today. Latest news about it's internal difficulties are disturbing about it's future regardless of how well bitcoin does, but it's the only bitcoin play I know that is allowed in a retirement account.

    - <intnl mystery bitcoin equity> It took finessing but I just bought some - more than I should have, and may ## have mercy on me. It's in a funny currency, but I have already made a thousand zlotneys or whatever in just the first hour. Lucky my first attempt to buy failed when the price was up 17% up from their overnight - then it dropped for my purchase and drifted up afterwards.

    - Momentum strategy: If you see it as rising and falling in long continuous sweeps, then it is best to stairstep in and out of it. So when the price rises, buy more or if it falls then sell a bit. This is what I have done well in the past. However, if the price wavers up and down like a sine wave, the strategy should be reversed to buy on dips and sell on upswings. That is what others do well. Unfortunately bitcoin seems a combo of the two which leaves no clear buy sell strategy for me but just nervously watch the price track. It is nice that bitcoin prices can be tracked 24-7 rather than waiting the whole weekend to see how bad news will be taken for instance.

    I never gamble or buy lottery tickets. Latter is not only less than a zero sum game, but losses are almost always 100%. Bitcoin may lose 50% or even 100% but more likely will give a modest gain to eagle eyed buyers who sell in a disciplined way before all gains are lost.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Norman, I thought no it would be worthwhile for a lot f folks to actually have a thread on the concepts of investing vs speculation vs gambling. This is something I have thought about a lot, and I believe it is an important financial topic for many and that it is not often addressed by the financial industry.
    Investing is a bet on the future. It might take the form of getting an education, starting a business, or buying publically traded issues.

    Speculation and gambling are words that people use when they think there is no future.

    Three words that mean the same.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    $64 million in Bitcoin was just stolen in a sophisticated "professional" hack of a Bitcoin mining marketplace.

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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Dollars, Euros, etc actually do have an underlying value. It is certainly an intangible value, but it can be readily converted into any goods and services

    Bitcoins are everything above? I already addressed the medium of exchange. What about store of value? They are not. Huge swings up or down do not make a store of value. When a currency goes up in value, that is called deflation. Deflation is just as bad as inflation, when a currency goes down. I can put real money in a bank account or in a safe or in a mattress, and I can roughly estimate loss of value due to inflation, and I have a fairly accurate idea of the value of that money after a certain point it time. That is what a store of value is.

    Is it used as an accounting unit of measure anywhere? No. Show me one person/business, even a bitcoin trader, who tracks their financial status and transactions in bitcoins.

    Bitcoins are not money.
    One could say the same about gold - coins, bullion, jewelry, etc.
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Investing is a bet on the future. It might take the form of getting an education, starting a business, or buying publically traded issues.

    Speculation and gambling are words that people use when they think there is no future.
    Speculation can be a very good thing, especially when it is counter trend. The housing crash was halted by those risking their money and comfy life by buying into what some may call a gamble. When a "turnaround expert" becomes a CEO of a company in dire trouble instead of a safe company, the knee-jerkers balk at his big payout for saving jobs and a company - but he took the risk.

    Speculation can be done by those who eventually prospered by lack of wine ,women, or song in grueling education and work schedules, and spartan frugal lifestyle in order to guarantee never being a burden on anyone else. You may demonize the successful "speculators" but there are just as many unsuccessful speculators who gave up what could have been a comfy life and benefited homeowners or consumers along the way.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
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    42,363

    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Yes - Bitcoins are a speculative investment.

    Odds are that it will, at some point, as have other historical fiat currencies... crash.

    Here's Alan Greenspan on the topic. Being an economist, he uses both hands deftly to analyze the situation. But the truth is... this Bitcoin phenomenon would have to be managed deftly and wisely, and against all the incentives... not to suffer the same fate as other speculations. Meantime... there's windfall profits to be made, IF you can manage to not get too greedy, and do get out in time --

    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/g...153230907.html
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  30. #30
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Gauteng, South Africa
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    351

    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    I have an absolute failsafe way of knowing when to sell any stock. When my wife comes home and says X is a good buy it is time to sell.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Anything that is outside of government control is always going to be bad mouthed by them.......for the same reason people are buying it is because the government cant be trusted, banks cant be trusted, and banks have been and still are very greedy when it comes to transactions fees. People have had faith in gold and silver as monetary means for more than 5,000 years, and yet some still see it as a pretty metal, but would rather have paper dollars......see where your faith gets you.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Kitty Hawk, NC
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    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by rudderless View Post
    Speculation can be a very good thing, especially when it is counter trend. The housing crash was halted by those risking their money and comfy life by buying into what some may call a gamble. When a "turnaround expert" becomes a CEO of a company in dire trouble instead of a safe company, the knee-jerkers balk at his big payout for saving jobs and a company - but he took the risk.

    Speculation can be done by those who eventually prospered by lack of wine ,women, or song in grueling education and work schedules, and spartan frugal lifestyle in order to guarantee never being a burden on anyone else. You may demonize the successful "speculators" but there are just as many unsuccessful speculators who gave up what could have been a comfy life and benefited homeowners or consumers along the way.
    You might notice I was writing about how people use the various words to express their opinion of the future.

    I don't know anyone who makes an investment and claims they are speculating or gambling. (I am sure some make that claim.)
    Life is complex.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,883

    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...hash-passwords

    Bitcoin: $64m in cryptocurrency stolen in 'sophisticated' hack, exchange says

    Mining marketplace NiceHash suspends operations while it co-operates with authorities over ‘professional attack’, urging users to change passwords...

    Nearly $64m in bitcoin has been stolen by hackers who broke into Slovenian-based bitcoin mining marketplace NiceHash.
    The marketplace suspended operations on Thursday while it investigated the breach, saying it was working with law enforcement as “a matter of urgency” while urging users to change their passwords.
    The hack was “a highly professional attack with sophisticated social engineering” that resulted in approximately 4,700 bitcoin being stolen, worth about $63.92m at current prices, said NiceHash head of marketing Andrej P Škraba.




    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 12-07-2017 at 03:32 PM.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,976

    Default Re: Bitcoin frenzy

    I don't partake, but it is interesting. I don't know of and have never heard of any "investment" that is as volatile as BTC.

    Since 14:00 hours Pacific time 6 Dec. (yesterday) a wager of $787.80 CDN through online currency broker ICMarkets would have yielded 245,000 pips ($2450.00 USD.)

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Texas
    Posts
    9,399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    You might notice I was writing about how people use the various words to express their opinion of the future.

    I don't know anyone who makes an investment and claims they are speculating or gambling. (I am sure some make that claim.)
    I try do always make the distinction in my mind. I think everyone should.

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

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