View Poll Results: Is it time for Al to bow out.

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  • Yes

    7 33.33%
  • No

    14 66.67%
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Thread: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post

    What am I missing here?

    There is no justice in this world! And there never was!
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    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    There is no justice in this world! And there never was!
    this is what happens with extremist ideologies, they always turn on each other and eat their own...

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    The Dems just screwed themselves
    What's new?
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    I'm all for order. We will develop a new social contract on how to handle these things in the future, but it won't come about in time to deal with the current crop of allegations.

    If you're worried about leaving the trogs in place, acting the same as them doesn't really further the republic. I believe it actually hurts it. If there is even a hint of hypocrisy they (you know how) will latch onto it and use it to fully excuse their monsters. We've seen it already.

    Take the high road I say. Not least because the victims and the sickness are very real.
    All true and agreeable. But one-sided. I mean that you don't account for practical politics in your construct.

    I've said several times that I favor the notion of investigations. Leave 'em all in place until the investigations play out. We have the mechanisms largely in place (though not perfectly, yet) to take that approach.
    David G
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Yupl We will gut the Democrat side, leaving the Republicans in even stronger control. And they mean us harm. Stupid, stupid approach being taken.

    And yeah - I really do question some of the accusers (of Franken) honesty, esp. the latest - it smells bad, smells like a 'hit job'.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    BTW, this just in - Ryan/Republicans are looking at 'reforming' Medicare, Medicaid and SS next. The old farts amongst us will love this one!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Considering the level of proof that was levied against Franken, I'd say that with certainty Trump should not be holding public office. I'm not certain whether the level of proof is equivalent for Moore regarding sexual assault. (Still somewhat of a "he said, she said" issue.) That said, there are many other reasons that Moore isn't qualified to hold office that are in the public record. If we, like Mitch McConnell, believe the women in Moore's case, he also should not hold office.

    The thing that you have to recognize here is that Franken appears to have a conscience which led him to take this action. The other two? Well...
    I'd be more willing to accept this, if it helps lead to the demise of Trump and his ilk. Otherwise it was a big mistake.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by mariner2k View Post
    I'd be more willing to accept this, if it helps lead to the demise of Trump and his ilk. Otherwise it was a big mistake.
    I'll bet you the reform will come in changing the benefits for future generation while not changing them for those now or soon to be retired (who vote).

    Since they are all programs that are based on the idea that the young now pay for the old now, that means deficit spending and cheating the young who don't think to look 40 or 50 years into the future.

    That seems to be typical of the GOP playbook.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Just saw this - and it might be useful/provide some insight:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/o...ol-left-region
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    An excerpt:

    Voters in red America are 44 percent less likely to be college graduates and 22 percent more likely to have served in the armed forces. Geographically speaking, red counties are virtually nonexistent on the West Coast and on the East Coast north of the Mason-Dixon line.

    Many Democrats continue to have little understanding of their own role — often inadvertent, an unintended consequence of well-meaning behavior — in creating the conditions that make conservatives willing to support Trump and the party he is leading.


    Stenner makes the point that

    liberal democracy’s allowance of these things inevitably creates conditions of “normative threat,” arousing the classic authoritarian fears about threats to oneness and sameness, which activate those predispositions — about a third of most western populations lean toward authoritarianism — and cause the increased manifestation of racial, moral and political intolerance.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    this is what happens with extremist ideologies, they always turn on each other and eat their own...
    Do you always have to bring your religion into discussions?
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    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    An excerpt:

    liberal democracy’s allowance of these things inevitably creates conditions of “normative threat,” arousing the classic authoritarian fears about threats to oneness and sameness, which activate those predispositions — about a third of most western populations lean toward authoritarianism — and cause the increased manifestation of racial, moral and political intolerance.
    Red vs. blue from day one.
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    This week, it is Robert E. Lee and this week, Stonewall Jackson. Is it George Washington next? You have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    A perspective --

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/heres-...%29&yptr=yahoo


    So Al Franken is out. It was the right thing for him to do. I guess. What he did was wrong. It wasn’t asking-a-14-year-old-girl-to-take-her-clothes-off wrong, but it was wrong.

    He didn’t quite admit he’d done anything wrong, though, in the Senate floor speech at noon Thursday when he announced his resignation. The stories of the last three weeks, he said, “gave people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things I had not in fact done. Some I did not do. Others I remember very differently.”

    Franken then noted the “irony” of the fact that “a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office” and that another man accused of child molesting is running for the same Senate “with the full support of his party.” But even so, he said, he was going.

    Yes, he had to at this point. Still, two thoughts nag at me. First, there’s some opportunism at work here. And second, if the Democrats think that taking the high ground on this one is going to score them any points, my bet is they’re sadly mistaken.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    +1000 to:

    Yes, he had to at this point. Still, two thoughts nag at me. First, there’s some opportunism at work here. And second, if the Democrats think that taking the high ground on this one is going to score them any points, my bet is they’re sadly mistaken.
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    It's called taking the higher moral ground. Something the republican party has no idea what that means

    Remember:

    It was Al Franken that pressured Jeff Sessions on his meetings with Russia during his confirmation, where Sessions lied under oath (a felony for most) about meetings with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, which forced him to recuse himself, which directly led to the appointment of Special Prosecutor Robert Muller.

    Without this event, there's no Paul Manafort arrest. There's no Michael Flynn arrests. Don Jr. wouldn't be questioned this week. The criminals in Trump's cabinet and campaign would still be free.
    For that, America owes a great debt to Senator Franken.

    We should remember that in the years to come.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    The Dems just screwed themselves
    Yup.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Should Al Franken toss in the towel and leave the senate?

    No.

    Dems "screwed themselves" when they confused class warfare for progressivism, and invited a populist "independent" to tear at the party from the inside. Now there's talk of how it's a war and we shouldn't sacrifice a foot soldier. You all gotta be kidding me. The big battle was last year, and we blew it. Now is the time for repairing fortifications.

    Al Franken stepping down is a reawakening of progressive principle. It's a way forward, you will see.

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