Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 44

Thread: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    82,402

    Default trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Not only will tips be pooled and split amongst wait staff, bus boys and the kitchen; restaurant management will also get a share of the tips.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    8,533

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Like I've posted before, a POS POTUS.
    are there any more ways he can raise profits for the owners/management/stockholders?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    8,533

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    How does one get on the POS's tweet list? I want to tell him each day what a POPS he is.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    8,900

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Image how many throat oysters Trump will eat after this one.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Between Here and There
    Posts
    25,889

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    No issue too minute for them to regulate and adapt to their agenda as they loudly proclaim how they are the party of freedom.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Indian Land, SC, USA
    Posts
    300

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    How much will POTUS be tipping after enjoying his favorite hamburger? Inquiring minds would like to know -
    [Seriously, management wants a cut of their tips above that ridiculous $2.31 base salary ??]


    Rick

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Too far inland.
    Posts
    7,756

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    I look forward to reading their rationale for how this makes america great again.
    A boatless inlander, searching for the meaning of life-aground.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    32,627

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    So. Not just tax cuts for the wealthy, but actual pay cuts for the working poor.

    I dunno how some people sleep at night.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    18,841

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Nice troll, Pless; is it 'real'?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sharon, MA
    Posts
    17,563

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Nice troll, Pless; is it 'real'?
    Yes.

    President Donald Trump’s administration has taken aim at yet another workplace regulation put in place by the Obama White House, this time seeking to undo a protection for restaurant servers that annoyed the industry’s lobby.In plans detailed Monday, the Labor Department said it intends to roll back what’s known as the “tip pooling” rule, which limits the scenarios in which tipped workers can be forced to share their gratuities with other employees. If the rule is done away with, it will be easier for management to divvy up the tips that flow to front-of-the-house restaurant and bar staff as it pleases.

    The restaurant lobby claims the change would steer more money from gratuities into the pockets of back-of-the-house employees like cooks and dishwashers, who do unseen work and don’t get tipped by patrons. But worker advocates say the way the proposal is written, nothing would stop management from simply keeping the servers’ tips for the house, rather than dispersing them among staff.

    The National Restaurant Association, an industry lobby, said in a statement it “applauds” the Trump administration’s decision to rework the tip-pooling regulation. The group sued the Obama administration over its rule, arguing that the regulation was illegal. A federal appeals court upheld the rule, and the Supreme Court is now considering whether to review the case.

    On Tuesday, the worker advocacy group Restaurant Opportunities Center United urged its allies to file public comments against the Trump proposal, calling it “just another attempt to keep workers’ wages low and let customers make up the difference.”

    Groups like ROC United generally don’t like the idea of required tip sharing, arguing that it forces one worker to subsidize the pay of another. If cooks deserve more money, they argue, then the restaurant owner should pay them more ― rather than shift a server’s tips their way.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
    --- Charles Pierce







  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,738

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    FWIW (and God knows I'm no fan of Trump) this isn't quite as cut-and-dried as it looks. First, it allows, not requires, pooling tips, and it allows, not requires, that managers can be part of the pool that gets some of the tips - along with busboys and runners and other employees. And most restaurant 'managers' aren't guys with a fancy suit in the office, not even close, but somebody sweating by the kitchen with the cooks and the servers, running food, dealing with crises, doing whatever somebody else isn't doing, and making sure things are working smoothly minute-to minute, and they often make less than servers. This may or may not be a good idea, but it's not as egregious as the news stories would indicate.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    1,229

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    tip pooling is a bad idea (from a former waitstaff employee while in college). it's bad for morale. but, you would think liberals would be all over this... now you can be lazy an unproductive and still be rewarded as much as the productive waitstaff.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    32,627

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    That makes me feel better.

    Waiters and waitresses certainly made more money than most of the kitchen staff, when I did summer jobs in the business. Even when folks pooled tips. Even when a couple of places I worked required waiters to fork over a set % of their nightly billings, rather than rely on their generosity and honesty. Managers often made crap money, for all that frankly, many did a crap job too.

    If this is "allowed" rather than "required," fine. If it stops at the level of floor managers etc., and doesn't turn into a new profit stream for owners, even better.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    1,229

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    now, i didn't mind sharing tips with the kitchen staff. but sharing tips with the crappy waitstaff really makes the good staff mad.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    32,627

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    now, i didn't mind sharing tips with the kitchen staff. but sharing tips with the crappy waitstaff really makes the good staff mad.
    Yeah. I left places that required it.

    Happy to share tips with kitchen staff, with folks bussing tables, even with the hosts/hostesses who stocked my section. Using much the same kind of rationale that a patron would use deciding how big a tip to leave in the first place, too. But other waiters/waitresses were there to earn their own dime - I didn't owe them a cut, unless they helped out in a crisis.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    21,318

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Tip pooling is just plain wrong. Sharing with the back of the house is just fine - though sometimes folks in the back are far better paid than the waitstaff. Note I said "sometimes".

    @Alan: "liberal" does not always mean "socialist".
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,861

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    I take this and many actions like it (relaxing coal and oil legislation and a host of other old ideas for old technology) as an indication that the people running those industries do not know how to make a profit without cheating society.

    A competent and talented restaurateur can make a profit by serving good food and charging a fair price. They won't be the cheapest place in town, but if they offer good food at a fair price people will go there. I do. If I ever got wind of a place I go taking some of the tip money I'd walk out and never go back.

    It's sad, really. Bigly.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    45,278

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    At the level actual wages are seem to be in the industry the workers are actually subsidising their employer, as otherwise many of the 'businesses' may not be economically viable.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    25,653

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    No issue too minute for them to regulate and adapt to their agenda as they loudly proclaim how they are the party of freedom.
    And "Small Government".

    Not to mention hypocrisy.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Caribbean cliff edge
    Posts
    14,952

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    I leave the tip in cash on the table.

    No need for others to gouge it or for the Credit Card Company to take a cut.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    21,861

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    There are people who believe in "whatever the market will bear" when paying others, but insist on what is "fair" when it benefits them. I get that.

    What I don't understand is how anyone could be so wrapped up in this hypocrisy that they would admit to it in this manner.

    It says to me that there are segments of our society where any means of getting more money is acceptable under any conditions and there is no such thing as shame.

    Employers who underpay their servers and then demand part of their tip have no shame.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northwest Oregon coast
    Posts
    23,644

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Well are s bit bitter sbout this, my wife worked as a hostess and the tips were to be shared, a high class exspenive place. There were NO cash tips, the wait staff pocked all the cash.. next time hear about the poor working staff think again .

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    5,929

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    So many people are called adults who don't deserve the appellation.

    It is really not that hard to quit a job and go where opportunities are better. It is really not that hard to pay employees a wage sufficient to keep them. Yet a third party frequently wants to set the rules.
    Life is complex.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Sitka, AK
    Posts
    25,224

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    No issue too minute for them to regulate and adapt to their agenda as they loudly proclaim how they are the party of freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    And "Small Government".

    Not to mention hypocrisy.
    As the current administration is attempting to undo regulations set in place by the previous administration, then 'freedom' and 'small government' are exactly what what's going on.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lodi, CA
    Posts
    141

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    FWIW (and God knows I'm no fan of Trump) this isn't quite as cut-and-dried as it looks. First, it allows, not requires, pooling tips, and it allows, not requires, that managers can be part of the pool that gets some of the tips - along with busboys and runners and other employees. And most restaurant 'managers' aren't guys with a fancy suit in the office, not even close, but somebody sweating by the kitchen with the cooks and the servers, running food, dealing with crises, doing whatever somebody else isn't doing, and making sure things are working smoothly minute-to minute, and they often make less than servers. This may or may not be a good idea, but it's not as egregious as the news stories would indicate.
    This^ How tips get divvied up or not is hardly a matter for the federal government to decide. Obama's administration overreached. Having said that, if I knew a service establishment took some of the tip money and kept it for the establishment, I would never darken their door. When I tip, I am tipping my server. If my server then chooses to pass along some of those tips to the people who are supporting their good service, that is entirely up to them.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Caribbean cliff edge
    Posts
    14,952

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Some countries have got their knickers in a twist about paying for a meal.

    Why not add 10%-15% to to the price and pay the staff properly.

    Then IF a customer feels that they have received service over and beyond then they can leave a gratuity for that individual that served them?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Indian Land, SC, USA
    Posts
    300

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    ^ Rum, this could be a great idea, except for that pesky fact that some servers only get that $2.31 base pay for tipped employees - see post #6


    Rick

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Caribbean cliff edge
    Posts
    14,952

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    ^ Rum, this could be a great idea, except for that pesky fact that some servers only get that $2.31 base pay for tipped employees - see post #6


    Rick
    Different issues, i) minimum wage and ii) tipping.

    Govt could rule on the minimum wage.

    Businesses could increase their prices to cover that minimum wage. After all I don't tip if I go into a 'fast food establishment'.

    IF I go to a restuarant the prices are there, why have a 'compulsory' 10 or 15% tip applied on top?

    Then IF I receive service above and beyond what I would expect for that type/standard of establishment I may leave an appropriate tip. That would be my prerogative. I should not be forced to leave a gratuity irrespective of what the service was like.

    I was in a Restaurant in a US territory one evening.
    The service was appalling, could not attract the waiter's attention, when I did he took forever (an exceedingly long time) to bring (beer) drink orders.
    The food order was seemingly given late to the kitchen (it was a steak house) and took nearly an hour to get a medium rare steak.
    I said nothing other than being polite.
    At the end, I decided to leave the few coins I had in my pocket as a protest.
    I left the restaurant and the waiter ran after me, and said I had left my change and looked at me expectantly.
    I took the change, said thank you and walked on.

    Tipping is a privilege to receive, not a right.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    1,229

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    as a waiter, i have chased someone to the parking lot for leaving NO tip on perfectly good service and food that must have been good b/c he ate every last bit of it. i asked him WTH? he replied with "why tip when you make at least minimum wage?" to which i replied "no man, i'm making 2.13/hr as a waiter. YOUR TIPS are expected as part of my earnings". he had no idea, and this was a grown man. hopefully i corrected him and he started tipping people after that. probably not what i should have done, but as a 20 yr old hungry college kid i was pretty teed off.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Caribbean cliff edge
    Posts
    14,952

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    as a waiter, i have chased someone to the parking lot for leaving NO tip on perfectly good service and food that must have been good b/c he ate every last bit of it. i asked him WTH? he replied with "why tip when you make at least minimum wage?" to which i replied "no man, i'm making 2.13/hr as a waiter. YOUR TIPS are expected as part of my earnings". he had no idea, and this was a grown man. hopefully i corrected him and he started tipping people after that. probably not what i should have done, but as a 20 yr old hungry college kid i was pretty teed off.
    When one goes to a restaurant one expects to have 'perfectly good service and food'. Otherwise one would not go.

    So therefore that is the minimum standard.

    If one received service above and beyond the minimum acceptable standard, then one should have the right, and not b forced to, to leave a tip/gratuity.

    As I said, I'n my view, tipping is a privilege to receive, not a right.

    So why not just jack up the prices on the menu to include the 'compulsory' tip that the employees share? and leave it up to the customer if they wished o their own free will to reward ant outstanding service?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    21,318

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    When one goes to a restaurant one expects to have 'perfectly good service and food'. Otherwise one would not go.

    So therefore that is the minimum standard.

    If one received service above and beyond the minimum acceptable standard, then one should have the right, and not b forced to, to leave a tip/gratuity.

    As I said, I'n my view, tipping is a privilege to receive, not a right.

    So why not just jack up the prices on the menu to include the 'compulsory' tip that the employees share? and leave it up to the customer if they wished o their own free will to reward ant outstanding service?
    I think you are applying logic to something formed by years of history. IOW - tips are how it's done in the US. Restaurant owners like 'em because it lets them keep prices lower. Good waitstaff likes 'em because they can make a little more money than an auto-applied service charge. An auto-applied charge is also problematic in that you get tagged 15% (or whatever) even if the service was awful. Another issue is that many tip in cash (as I do 99.9% of the time). A service charge means it goes on the credit card & therefore the server may not get all of it.

    And - tips are pure capitalism - shouln't a conservative love the idea?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    1,229

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    When one goes to a restaurant one expects to have 'perfectly good service and food'. Otherwise one would not go.

    So therefore that is the minimum standard.

    If one received service above and beyond the minimum acceptable standard, then one should have the right, and not b forced to, to leave a tip/gratuity.

    As I said, I'n my view, tipping is a privilege to receive, not a right.

    So why not just jack up the prices on the menu to include the 'compulsory' tip that the employees share? and leave it up to the customer if they wished o their own free will to reward ant outstanding service?


    that's all fine and good. but that's not what the norm is here. wait staff makes considerably less than minimum wage and it is expected that tips will make up the rest of minimum wage and hopefully more. 15% is considered MINIMUM tipping. ie: you get your food and drinks and you tip 15%. if your wait staff goes above and beyond, you would tip more. i have only tipped UNDER 20% 2 times in my life and it was b/c the service was worse than sub-standard. in my story above, that guy had gone his whole life without tipping b/c he thought the staff was getting paid a decent wage. he was wrong, and i hope he has changed his ways. i wish everyone would spend a month waiting tables so they can appreciate all the crap they have to put up with on a daily basis. ... nasty people, rude people, unreasonable people, cheap people, and even the rare NICE customer.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    32,627

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    When one goes to a restaurant one expects to have 'perfectly good service and food'. Otherwise one would not go.

    So therefore that is the minimum standard.

    If one received service above and beyond the minimum acceptable standard, then one should have the right, and not b forced to, to leave a tip/gratuity.

    As I said, I'n my view, tipping is a privilege to receive, not a right.

    So why not just jack up the prices on the menu to include the 'compulsory' tip that the employees share? and leave it up to the customer if they wished o their own free will to reward ant outstanding service?
    I'll be charitable here Rummy, and hypothesize that we're looking at a "cultural difference." Maybe the norms are different in the islands than it is in continental North America.

    Here, for better or worse, tipping is an understood and expected social norm. The restaurant business model is built around it, and depending on the specific location, there are often laws (which is what this thread started with) addressing how tips should be handled.

    It used to be, decades ago, that the expected minimum was 10% on top of the billed price; over time, that's shifted to 15-20%, depending on location. If a person chooses to eat in a restaurant in North America, they need to be aware of that social norm, and the implications for the restaurant staff if you choose to ignore it or make some kind of justification for not paying.

    The message you give in NOT tipping is that you've received horrible service and should complain to the management ... or alternatively, that you're a despicable person. Among other things, in many restaurants (3 I'd worked in, years ago) the waiting staff will be required to share a proportion of their expected tips with other restaurant staff - the amount is assessed at the end of the shift based on the $ you'd rung in under your unique identification number. So if a person like you came along, received wonderful service but tipped nothing, that server would be docked part of their actual paid hourly wage to pay the kitchen staff and bus-people etc. You actually cost that server money, as well as taking up a valuable table and preventing a customer who followed the social norms from paying the server for their work.

    If I were the business owner and saw this happening on an ongoing basis simply with you - I might invite you to find another restaurant, if you didn't want to treat my staff with our social norms' version of respect. If a significant proportion of folks followed your practice, I'd raise prices. Or more likely, I'd assess a minimum gratuity fee when the bill was calculated - and put a notice on the menu that it would be added to the bill, and that while additional tipping was welcome in cases of exceptional service, that the mandatory minimum was not negotiable. It's how things like this are handled in banquet billings in large hotels, after all.

    But now you know. When next you eat in a restaurant while off the island, perhaps somewhere in Florida or etc., remember this little chat. And decide whether it's worth it to you to be considered despicable for knowingly taking advantage of a social norm, and costing your server money. Better yet, buy your food in a grocery store or get fast-food takeout.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    46,738

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    So why not just jack up the prices on the menu to include the 'compulsory' tip that the employees share? and leave it up to the customer if they wished of their own free will to reward outstanding service?
    That would make sense, and that's how it's done in many other countries. It's not how we do it in the US, as several people have explained. When in Rome . . .
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Between Here and There
    Posts
    25,889

    Default Re: trump national labor relations board to change restaurant tip rules

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    As the current administration is attempting to undo regulations set in place by the previous administration, then 'freedom' and 'small government' are exactly what what's going on.
    How does mandated tip sharing between owners and the workers equate to freedom?
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •