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Thread: We should be ashamed.

  1. #141
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    well, do you want fake news or not? no sense in perpetuating fake news or shooting the messenger pointing it out. between you and someone else this story has already gone from "illegal woman gets deported" to "woman gets deported and kids are left as wards of the state" and "woman gets taken away from us citizen husband and deported". both of which are far from "nit picking" if you ask me. facts matter.
    Accusing me of shooting the messenger is ripe.
    You are picking on one error over which way the husband was legal to deflect from the fact that you support an inhumane action by paid jobsworths with no compassion acting like jack booted goons.
    Lazy jobsworths picking the low hanging fruit, depriving children of their mothers and the US of an honest tax paying worker instead of going after those who the US needs to be rid of.
    And you support this?
    Remarkable!
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  2. #142
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Trumpkins or Trumpists? Its an important question. I think the latter is much more apt, it fits the caudillo goal of Trump very well (eg Peronist ). I am definitely sticking with Trumpists, I think you guys should also.
    Trumpists are the politicians following along with Trump - the Roy Moores. Trumpkins are the unthinking herd following along, they'll believe anything a Trumpist tells them and gladly declare anything that offends them "fake news".

  3. #143
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Accusing me of shooting the messenger is ripe.
    You are picking on one error over which way the husband was legal to deflect from the fact that you support an inhumane action by paid jobsworths with no compassion acting like jack booted goons.
    Lazy jobsworths picking the low hanging fruit, depriving children of their mothers and the US of an honest tax paying worker instead of going after those who the US needs to be rid of.
    And you support this?
    Remarkable!

    no, your disinformation was rather important to the facts of the story. had she been married to a LEGAL US CITIZEN then her getting deported would have been a much bigger deal b/c she herself should have had legal status for being married to a LEGAL US CITIZEN. depriving her of her children? will mexico not let them in? i mean, both parents are mexican national right? are you saying we OWE illegal immigrants legal status if they have anchor babies?

    i don't "support" anything in this scenario.

  4. #144
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Alan!

    Yes you can be deported even if you are married to a US citizen: what ...

    https://immigrationlawnj.com/can-deported-married-us-citizen/


    Nov 14, 2016 - Yes you can be deported if you are married to a US citizen : what you need to know. Harlan York ... They breathe a sigh of relief once they are married assuming that they are now safely living in the US. ... If you fall into this category the best thing to do is to call a great immigration lawyeras soon as possible.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    which is why i say she SHOULD have. you still have to do things properly, but it would have been considerably easier to obtain citizenship had she been married to a citizen. but, that point is moot b/c she WASN'T married to a citizen.

  6. #146
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    which is why i say she SHOULD have. you still have to do things properly, but it would have been considerably easier to obtain citizenship had she been married to a citizen. but, that point is moot b/c she WASN'T married to a citizen.
    It wouldn't have made a difference! Your post says that if she had been married to a US citizen, things may have been different Allen, I pointed out that it wouldn't have.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    It wouldn't have made a difference! Your post says that if she had been married to a US citizen, things may have been different Allen, I pointed out that it wouldn't have.

    if things were different then everything is the same?

  8. #148
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    if things were different then everything is the same?
    In other words, spinning aren't you?

  9. #149
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    i'm not spinning anything. just trying to get the fake news fixed. woman NOT married to a citizen. woman's kids NOT being taken into the custody of the state. use the facts and make your argument.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i'm not spinning anything. just trying to get the fake news fixed. woman NOT married to a citizen. woman's kids NOT being taken into the custody of the state. use the facts and make your argument.
    Your opinion!

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Trumpists are the politicians following along with Trump - the Roy Moores. Trumpkins are the unthinking herd following along, they'll believe anything a Trumpist tells them and gladly declare anything that offends them "fake news".
    I'll buy that. I will continue to use the word Trumpists for both, but your logic is sound.

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

  12. #152
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Trumpistas

  13. #153
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Ashamed? Indeed. But some more than others...
    Last edited by David G; 12-07-2017 at 09:43 PM.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  14. #154
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Alan!

    Yes you can be deported even if you are married to a US citizen: what ...

    https://immigrationlawnj.com/can-deported-married-us-citizen/



    Nov 14, 2016 - Yes you can be deported if you are married to a US citizen : what you need to know. Harlan York ... They breathe a sigh of relief once they are married assuming that they are now safely living in the US. ... If you fall into this category the best thing to do is to call a great immigration lawyeras soon as possible.
    Thankfully so.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Yes... some more than others.
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  16. #156
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    ^ Would the person who lifted that rock, please replace it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #157
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  18. #158
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I'm sorry to read it.

    Nativist nationalism appears a worldwide disease. Shocking how quickly ignorance, fear, and bigotry can make us forget our better natures.

  19. #159
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I'm sorry to read it.

    Nativist nationalism appears a worldwide disease. Shocking how quickly ignorance, fear, and bigotry can make us forget our better natures.
    Yeah, I know. Anyone who doesn't cherish open borders and millions of unlawfully present persons is an ignorant, fearful, bigot.

  20. #160
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Yeah, I know. Anyone who doesn't cherish open borders and millions of unlawfully present persons is an ignorant, fearful, bigot.
    You are intelligent enough to understand that 'open borders' is a straw man. One can therefore reasonably conclude that you are being deliberately deceitful.

    Ignorance, fear, and bigotry are not universal, but are all too common among nativists.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  21. #161
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    You are intelligent enough to understand that 'open borders' is a straw man. One can therefore reasonably conclude that you are being deliberately deceitful.

    Ignorance, fear, and bigotry are not universal, but are all too common among nativists.
    Well, that's just too bad, I guess. Some people just have different values and may not subscribe to the same universalisms as you do. The consolation, I guess, is that you are a better human being than these people are, which I suppose supplies some measure of comfort.

  22. #162
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Indeed
    Add my name to the list of peb's admirers. It's been heartening to hear sense from another loyal conservative on these fora. It gives me hope for healing and reconciliation demonstrating how we can meet in good faith at the center of the issues.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  23. #163
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Well, that's just too bad, I guess. Some people just have different values and may not subscribe to the same universalisms as you do. The consolation, I guess, is that you are a better human being than these people are, which I suppose supplies some measure of comfort.
    That's another straw man fallacy, that others would hold a position or support an idea merely for the feeling of superiority, with no care or intent to see something made real for the benefit of others.

    But I can understand why you would project onto others such cynicism, considering your own lack of sincerity.

  24. #164
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    But I can understand why you would project onto others such cynicism, considering your own lack of sincerity.
    It always seems to me that the attributes, ideas and intentions people project on to others, in the absence of actual knowledge, are a pretty good guide to their own attributes, intentions and ideas.
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

  25. #165
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Well, that's just too bad, I guess. Some people just have different values and may not subscribe to the same universalisms as you do. The consolation, I guess, is that you are a better human being than these people are, which I suppose supplies some measure of comfort.
    Some people, no doubt, have different values. Some values are better than others (examples on request, although that should be obvious). In my opinion, my values are better. If I didn't think that, I'd have different ones. Knowledge is better than ignorance. Kindness and compassion are better than fear and bigotry. If you disagree with that, then make it clear. Whether this makes me a better human being than somebody else is stupefyingly irrelevant.

    I am getting very, very tired of the utterly cynical argument that whenever anyone makes a case based on values, all they're doing is trying to make themselves look better. Perhaps that's how you operate. I don't.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  26. #166
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    You are intelligent enough to understand
    OBJECTION! Assumes facts not in evidence.
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

  27. #167
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Add my name to the list of peb's admirers. It's been heartening to hear sense from another loyal conservative on these fora. It gives me hope for healing and reconciliation demonstrating how we can meet in good faith at the center of the issues.
    .

    Thats where we get a lotta rinos, they turn against the party then get acadamy awards from libs, this is how john macain, operates.

    I give it to libs they hold to their party no matter what..

  28. #168
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    John of Phoenix
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    Re: We should be ashamed.

    You are intelligent enough to understand


    OBJECTION! Assumes facts not in evidence.

    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice






    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  29. #169
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Thats where we get a lotta rinos, they turn against the party then get acadamy awards from libs, this is how john macain, operates.

    I give it to libs they hold to their party no matter what..
    Two sentences, the second directly contradicting the first.

    This is how you get to believe all the self-contradictory things you do, bobbys; by failing to apply the meaning of one statement to the meaning of the next.

  30. #170
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    I'm getting very tired of it
    Too bad, Keith. Welcome to the Big Boy table. I get tired of stuff that goes on in here too. You put stuff out there, people will respond. I mean, who are you trying to persuade? What is the value of your public commentary on the issue as given here, except as it may reflect on you in some way?

  31. #171
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    Two sentences, the second directly contradicting the first.

    This is how you get to believe all the self-contradictory things you do, bobbys; by failing to apply the meaning of one statement to the meaning of the next.
    .

    I can remove anything for that taco even though i dont believe you can dish up a r,eal mexican one.

  32. #172
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    And let us not forget the thread title itself, moralizing as it does based on the OP's own personal values, acting as if they apply universally and calling for collective shame because they don't. Gimme a break.

  33. #173
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    And let us not forget the thread title itself, moralizing as it does based on the OP's own personal values, acting as if they apply universally and calling for collective shame because they don't. Gimme a break.
    That's exactly how moralizing works. You say what you think ought to be.

    It appears that Peb is suggesting (as Jesus Christ, and prophets of other traditions, taught) that we ought to think of others, and empathize with them, the way we do of ourselves, our loved ones, our fellow countrymen. It's true that's not a universal value, but it should be.

  34. #174
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    And let us not forget the thread title itself, moralizing as it does based on the OP's own personal values, acting as if they apply universally and calling for collective shame because they don't. Gimme a break.
    And WHAT are your values SB? Want to moralize over them?Can you justify them?

  35. #175
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    Default Re: We should be ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    That's exactly how moralizing works. You say what you think ought to be.

    It appears that Peb is suggesting (in a way that Jesus Christ, and prophets of other traditions, taught) that we ought to think of others, and empathize with them, the way we do of ourselves, our loved ones, our fellow countrymen. It's true that's not a universal value, but it should be.

    Really? How universal? How many Syrian refugees is China taking? Japan? How many Latin American immigrants is Canada taking? Do they have an open border such that tens of millions may just walk in? Why not? Should they be ashamed, too?

    Jesus said lots of stuff.

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