Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Todd Bradshaw
    Sailmaker
    • Jun 2000
    • 11087

    #61
    Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

    And yes, I know it's not there in order to protect you from needle stabs
    Sure it is. Who says that it can only have one function?

    Comment

    • Peerie Maa
      Old Grey Inquisitive One
      • Oct 2008
      • 62481

      #62
      Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

      Originally posted by Peerie Maa
      ^ What Mats said
      The one at the back is a shop bought roping palm.
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]7980[/ATTACH]
      The one in front is my remake of my grandfathers seaming palm. the rawhide came from a dogs rawhide chew.
      The leather is a bit thin, but all I had to hand, the rawhide is key.
      Found some thicker leather so remade Granddad's palm, again.
      DSC03323.jpg
      It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

      The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
      The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

      Comment

      • mohsart
        Senile Mumbler
        • Mar 2014
        • 1066

        #63
        Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

        Oh yes, the primary reason for having raw hide on the palm is to protect the user from needle wounds, my bad.

        /Mats
        sigpic
        Diagnosed with autism. Sorry, not much I can do about it.

        Comment

        • Fredostli
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2013
          • 1128

          #64
          A drawing to make a plan for broadseams and corner/reef patches and reefs. Its a challenge to make the patches look good estetically and also be the right shape for strenght, so be free to comment. Second photo is holding a needle with my sailmakers palm.... dont feels bad to me but I believe you have a comment on that too 😊 I am here to learn!

          I plan to mount steel rings with webbing and protect with leather in the corners and reefs.

          Sent fra min SM-N950F via Tapatalk

          Comment

          • mohsart
            Senile Mumbler
            • Mar 2014
            • 1066

            #65
            Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

            Patch design is quite personal choise. I used to make rectangular ones, but has switched to rounded. Rounded edges may be difficult in dacron (unless the edges are hot melted). I don't really understand your choise of design for the 1st/2nd reefs tack patch, but as I said it's mostly aesthetics.
            I think it's common to not use patches for the reef-points, if they are put on seams.

            Yes you more or less have to hold the needle like that with that plate angle, if you can hold it with your thumb and index finger you'll get more control.

            /Mats
            sigpic
            Diagnosed with autism. Sorry, not much I can do about it.

            Comment

            • Peerie Maa
              Old Grey Inquisitive One
              • Oct 2008
              • 62481

              #66
              Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

              Originally posted by Fredostli
              Second photo is holding a needle with my sailmakers palm.... dont feels bad to me but I believe you have a comment on that too I am here to learn!



              Sent fra min SM-N950F via Tapatalk
              Originally posted by mohsart
              Yes you more or less have to hold the needle like that with that plate angle, if you can hold it with your thumb and index finger you'll get more control.

              /Mats
              Errm.
              DSC03325.jpg
              Much more control with second finger involved as well.
              Last edited by Peerie Maa; 01-09-2018, 03:08 PM.
              It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

              The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
              The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

              Comment

              • Todd Bradshaw
                Sailmaker
                • Jun 2000
                • 11087

                #67
                Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

                Yep, you should be pinching the tip of the needle between your thumb and index finger just slightly (maybe 1/2" or so) below the point. The needle's eye end should be in one of the dents in the iron and the tip of your second finger should be pushing it down there to brace it from moving out of the iron. You should also be able to put enough pressure on the needle at the iron with your second finger to push the needle firmly up against your thumb and hold it there while you remove your index finger. The needle should stay put up against your thumb, like this, and this allows you to use the index finger when needed to help position the fabric or in some cases push on the back side of the cloth as you push the needle through.

                needle.jpg

                Since much of what we sew takes considerable needle pressure to get through, it is neither safe or efficient to leave the tip and much of the needle's length out there unsupported. Needles will get bent and can certainly also break - which usually means you get stabbed in the process.The proper needle/palm position will initially seem a bit awkward, but it just takes a while to get used to it. Once you do, it will give you a lot of control and the ability to fiddle with things when needed, while your finger back at the iron keeps the needle in position so it's ready to go when the stitching continues.

                Comment

                • Greenman
                  Member
                  • Jul 2017
                  • 91

                  #68
                  Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

                  Don't forget to hollow out your luff about an inch on the actual sail. Your above drawing doesn't show this.

                  Comment

                  • Todd Bradshaw
                    Sailmaker
                    • Jun 2000
                    • 11087

                    #69
                    Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

                    Not shown because it is not needed on that sail. It can certainly be a good thing on lugs with really long luffs, but I've built a bunch of these over the years, doubled the luff tapes up for strength and have never had luff problems.

                    Comment

                    • Fredostli
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2013
                      • 1128

                      #70
                      Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

                      I did not draw the leech hollow or Head round either, but will do on the lofting floor as specified in the plan.

                      I am almost ready sewing, but I need to find time when the local community house is free for me to use. There i have access to a suitable little hall where I can loft the sail.

                      I cannot damage the floor with spikes, so I must use masking tape to mark the outlines, and broadseam-zones. Is it an alternative to make some thin battens in the lenght of each side of the sail, and then lay out on the floor? If I work to slow I might have to remove the masking tape, and get back later and repeat the lofting, because of other arrangements in the house.

                      Comment

                      • Todd Bradshaw
                        Sailmaker
                        • Jun 2000
                        • 11087

                        #71
                        Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

                        The short scenario: (1) Lay out the basic straight-line perimeter with string, using weights or tape at the corners since you can't use pins, nails, etc.
                        (2) Use light battens to form the curves at head, leach and foot, measuring your rounds and/or hollows from the straight strings as reference. I suspect this may be
                        a real bear to do with tape alone and you may need to come up with some sort of improvised spline weights to hold the battens in their curved shapes.
                        (3) Put down your masking tape following the strings and battens to show the sail's actual perimeter, then remove the strings and battens.
                        (4) Tape your broadseam area guidelines. You can also tape off the corner patch shapes and sizes if desired.
                        (5) Start paneling, tape basting the seams with their broadseams, with 3"-4" or so of excess cloth outside of your tape perimeter on the luff, head and foot edges, as well as
                        enough excess on the leech edge to fold a hem later.
                        (6) Once paneled and broadseamed, you lay the sail over the lofting and mark, and/or cut the edges to their final shape. The broadseaming will have used up some cloth
                        which is why we panel a bit oversized and then cut it to size after seam basting.
                        (7) If desired, you can now remove the sail, lay some cloth over the lofted corner patch tape marks and cut out the largest patches for each corner. The weave direction should
                        be oriented to match that of the sail panels in these areas. Smaller, under-patches can be made later, using the big ones as reference.

                        At this point you are done with the lofting and can peel up the tape. It takes me maybe 3 or 4 hours to get to this point, but I've had a lot of practice. Even if it takes you twice that long or a bit more you could probably do it in one long session. That would be far better than having to loft and tape it out twice. The remaining steps will be sewing the panel seams, reinforcing the corners and edges and finally adding the hardware. These later steps are the ones that end up taking most of the time and could be done later in other sessions, but you no longer need the lofting to do them.

                        Comment

                        • Fredostli
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2013
                          • 1128

                          #72
                          Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

                          Thanks Todd. I will make som simple spline weights to use. Is 1,5 / inch overlap at the seams (widens at broadseams) suitable for this sail?

                          I am one of the Voluntares, and sitting in the board for this old community house, keeping it alive, so I have the priviledge using it a weekend when there is no other arrangements. guess that will be enough. Patches etc. I can make at home.

                          Comment

                          • Todd Bradshaw
                            Sailmaker
                            • Jun 2000
                            • 11087

                            #73
                            Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

                            Normal seam overlap is a bit more than 1/2" and basted with 1/2" seam tape. We want a bit more width to be sure we don't have any tape exposed along the edges as it would pick up dirt, so figure .6", 5/8", 12mm or so for the finished seams - plus whatever gets added for broadseaming in those areas.

                            Comment

                            • Fredostli
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2013
                              • 1128

                              #74
                              Thanks Todd, and I guess two rows of Zigzag machine stiches then...



                              Sent fra min SM-N950F via Tapatalk

                              Comment

                              • Todd Bradshaw
                                Sailmaker
                                • Jun 2000
                                • 11087

                                #75
                                Re: Making a standing lugsail for my Argie 15 (Todd Bradshaw design)

                                Yep.

                                You will need to roll the sail like a scroll for nearly every sewing pass through the machine. Having tried all manner of methods, clamps, tubes to wrap cloth around, etc. to roll it securely, I finally settled on chunks of 1" wide fiberglass strapping tape about 10" long. I pre-cut a bunch of them and stick them to a lamp stand next to the sewing machine. Once a section has been rolled (no tubes inside, etc. just rolled Dacron) I secure it with two or three of these tape strips. After sewing, they come off cleanly and they can be re-used three or four times before that lose enough of their stickiness to no longer be effective. After sewing the first pass, as shown below, I'll flip the roll over and sew the second pass from the other side (side, not end). The tape is secure enough to tolerate that.

                                The reason for flipping the sail over for the second pass is that it helps keep both sides of your panel seams looking the same. When the needle goes into the Dacron cloth the entry hole on the top side is a bit cleaner looking than the exit hole on the bottom side (where it essentially "breaks out"). Flipping the sail between sewing the two stitch lines means that every double-stitched panel seam will end up with one line of each type. To my eye, that looks better than having one clean (entry) side of the sail and one, not so clean (break-out) side. It's a bit more work, compared to just running the roll through the machine twice on the same side, but I think it is worth the trouble cosmetically.

                                sail const.3 006.jpg

                                Comment

                                Working...