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Thread: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

  1. #1
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    Default Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    We used an Azko-Nobel coating called Intersleek on the hulls of the new Halifax ferries to great effect. It is essentially the same idea as MacGlide - a high-density plastic film that is "too slippery" for marine growth to adhere to. It performs very well, is quite expensive, and requires regular excursions above a certain speed (six to eight knots seems to be the lower limit for these products) to induce marine organisms to slough off. There are also fuel savings to be had, as the frictional resistance of the hull moving through the water is reduced. If you use your boat frequently at speeds above the noted minimums, and have the depth-of-pocket for the initial application, they seem to be very good products.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    For us slower types there's actually no one answer. I am partial to Cape Cod's "ePaint" as I was an early experimental customer. They make a variety of bottom coatings for various hull materials, boat speeds, and local conditions. I like the one for the slowest wooden boats that essentially uses sun light to slowly release hydrogen peroxide that discourages growth on the boat and breaks down within a millimeter of the bottom, leaving nothing in the water. The main paint companies have joined the chorus with low or no VOC, water based bottom paints, and eco friendly stuff.

    Side point - so far every sort of ablative paint I have used, from the old copper to modern ePaint, works better with a does of Ceyanne pepper mixed in. The paint companies deny this but it works for me.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    As I understand it, ( Full disclosure: I have a friend who works for International Paint) these types of coatings work great for a boat that is constantly, or almost constantly underway--like a ferry or containership. Most recreational boats, even those used a lot,( say 3 or 4 times a week) still spend most of their time at the dock or mooring.

    Now for a fast powerboat, it can still work, since once it does get underway, their is powerful enough "washing action," to blow off whatever stuck to the super slick surface. In fact, I have personal experience with a product called Propspeed, that works just that way, albeit for underwater metals like drives, props, shafts, rudder, etc. But the efficacy may well drop at sailing or displacement powerboat speeds.

    If I had the money and availability ( One cant apply Intersleek to a boat without a pesticide permit here in the states) to try one of these, I would be curious about what is involved in overcoating them. If one did not like the performance, I suspect one would have to start over and get back to bare susbstrate before returning to more conventional anti-fouling protection. I don't know that, but I would ask.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    I can answer that one, Kevin: Yes, you have to strip off all the Intersleek if you want to paint something else on the bottom. It actually isn't that hard to strip off, but it is grunt work.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    I suppose it's time for another of "Cleek's Laws:" "When evaluating products marketed to replace traditional products now outlawed due to environmental restrictions, the amount of advertising hype about the new product's "environmental friendliness" is directly proportionate to the increase in the cost of the new product over the traditional one and inversely proportionate to the new product's effectiveness over the traditional product's effectiveness for the use intended." Or, for those who wish to avoid scientific gobble-de-gook, "The new "eco-friendly" crap costs more and works less.

    The above posts are correct. The "slippery film" systems work on vessels operated continuously at speeds above eight or ten knots, but are expensive. The "break even" point in the cost/benefit analysis makes their use less favored in small vessels and more favored in large vessels where fuel cost savings due to reduced hull resistance due to fouling will be achieved in greater scales. It'll be a cold day in hell that you'll ever save enough in fuel for a small boat to justify the cost of the system's installation.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    I add Teflon powder and black die to epoxy for the final coat on the bottoms of my boats. They're never in the water for more than a few hours, so I don't know about how that effects growth, but I do believe that it makes them faster. It also makes them a lot easier to drag up a beach. Nothing will stick to the bottoms once they've been treated like that, not even more epoxy. That's kind of a pain.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    I posted a while back about a new product designed specifically for the nets on fish farms. B definition mostly stationary, with occasional al slow movement. Looked very promising for pleasure yacht application. Of course I can't remember what it was called. Developed in Denmark or somewhere I think.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I posted a while back about a new product designed specifically for the nets on fish farms. B definition mostly stationary, with occasional al slow movement. Looked very promising for pleasure yacht application. Of course I can't remember what it was called. Developed in Denmark or somewhere I think.
    Google suggests .... http://www.badinotti.com/prod_coat.html
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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Not it, but sounds similar. I think the one I saw was also specifically being tested for use on boat hulls.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Side point - so far every sort of ablative paint I have used, from the old copper to modern ePaint, works better with a does of Ceyanne pepper mixed in. The paint companies deny this but it works for me.
    Been doing the same since I was a kid. My Grandfather turned me on to it.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    How much do you put in? Might give it a try. Never yet found a bottom paint I was happy with, except about 15 years ago in Papua New Guinea, where they still sold TBT anti foul.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Come to think of it I’ve never seen mold on a bottle of hot sauce

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    I think the slippy non toxic paint is the way of the future. I picture it used in conjunction with little "robots" that move around and scrub the hull while in port.
    Mark

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    I think the slippy non toxic paint is the way of the future. I picture it used in conjunction with little "robots" that move around and scrub the hull while in port.
    My landlord a couple years back was head of the paint shop at PSNS, in Bremerton. He said that's exactly what the big navy ships do: magnetic free-roving scrubbers, while in port.

    He also said the navy shifted from toxic paint to slippery paint not because of any improvement in the paint, but because the OSHA requirements and the hazmat mitigation on the old toxic paint became so expensive they couldn't afford to keep using it.

    He had some fun stories --as in, curl-your-toes "fun." Like about painting between the double hulls in submarines. Yeeks.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    That reminds me of something that happen when I was on watch on deck once. Smoke was coming out of a deck hatch. I passed the word then grabbed a fire extinguisher and went between the hulls to investigate. There was a crew mate topside as well, who had a cast on his arm, and he came with me. We found some very heavy gauge wiring smoking away , perhaps about to ignite, and wanted to blast it with the extinguisher. The problem was that the extinguisher was quite large and unwieldy and was one of those that had to be inverted and smashed down onto it's top to make it work and there just wasn't room to do that. Sears, the other guy, bashed it with his cast and we were golden, saved the day.

    Even moored to the dock on a hot day it was always nice and cool in there. You just wanted to be careful, it would be a really awkward place to get out of if you slipped down head first into the water between the inner and outer hulls.

    Submarines keep coming up for the last few days, must be the Argentinian boat news.
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 12-02-2017 at 04:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    My landlord a couple years back was head of the paint shop at PSNS, in Bremerton. He said that's exactly what the big navy ships do: magnetic free-roving scrubbers, while in port.

    He also said the navy shifted from toxic paint to slippery paint not because of any improvement in the paint, but because the OSHA requirements and the hazmat mitigation on the old toxic paint became so expensive they couldn't afford to keep using it.

    He had some fun stories --as in, curl-your-toes "fun." Like about painting between the double hulls in submarines. Yeeks.

    Alex
    Back when Mare Island Naval Shipyard was operating, we could get Navy "surplus" (Ah-hem...) bottom paint from a guy who worked there. It came in one color, black. We called it "the black death." Nothing, absolutely nothing, ever grew on it. Unfortunately, being vinyl based, I think, it didn't stick as well as we'd have liked to wooden hulls, but as long as it held, it was really great stuff.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Don Kurylko has copper-bottomed a few boats, including his new cutter and dinghy.
    So far we haven't seen any growth...

    P1020267.jpg

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    My landlord a couple years back was head of the paint shop at PSNS, in Bremerton. He said that's exactly what the big navy ships do: magnetic free-roving scrubbers, while in port.

    He also said the navy shifted from toxic paint to slippery paint not because of any improvement in the paint, but because the OSHA requirements and the hazmat mitigation on the old toxic paint became so expensive they couldn't afford to keep using it.

    He had some fun stories --as in, curl-your-toes "fun." Like about painting between the double hulls in submarines. Yeeks.

    Alex
    The Navy is exempt from OSHA compliance, no?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    The Navy is exempt from OSHA compliance, no?
    Maybe it wasn't OSHA, it might just have been the workers' Union --I can't remember the exact details-- but the part I *do* remember, that struck me as interesting, is that the change happened because it became too expensive to meet the workplace safety demands pertaining to the toxicity of the bottom paint. The majority of shipyard workers are civillians, which means the navy has to play by a different set of rules than if it were strictly navy personnel.

    Any benefit to the environment was merely a happy coincidence.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Too expensive for the navy? Nah I think you misheard.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Is this a viable alternative to antifouling paint ?

    Too expensive for the navy? Nah I think you misheard.
    More fun to spend their money on more toys that go BANG! than on respirators.

    Alex

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