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Thread: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

  1. #71
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Might note that most hybrids don't have a transmission pe se. They use a simple planetary gearbox much like a rear-axle differential. It should be quite cheap and durable. The cost of the electronic control system is another matter.
    Wait - I'm confused...
    A planetary rear axle differential?

  2. #72
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Our ground crews plug the external power cord into the jet in all weather conditions. These cords are capable of supplying ALL the electical needs of a widebody aircraft while it's at the gate. In the 28 years I've been flying commercially I've never seen anybody get injured. Seen a few gas pump fires though.
    You say the electric car costs more to operate? Could you share the math on this?
    I did a little digging and came up with this. The numbers are from a Michigan University.

    https://pluginamerica.org/how-much-d...-electric-car/
    I rebuilt ship 3725 last summer after it caught fire from a shorted external power cord and there have been several incidents of fires at other carriers from bad cords. Seen a couple close calls with cords that had damaged insulation as well. In most of the fire cases I have seen it was bad cord maintenance but have also seen a few small fires from loose terminals on the aircraft receptacle. It's not 100% safe, but it is pretty good overall.

    There is never power on the cord when it is being plugged in. It has to complete a safety circuit at the receptacle before power can be applied.
    Tom

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Thanks Tom. Wonder if the electric charging facilities employ this safety feature as well?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  4. #74
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Thanks Tom. Wonder if the electric charging facilities employ this safety feature as well?
    I would hope so. It's a very simple circuit.
    Tom

  5. #75
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Thanks Tom. Wonder if the electric charging facilities employ this safety feature as well?
    The dedicated auto chargers do.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Two boating friends have bought EV's after our return from the pacific cruise. I hadn't considered it but thought I'd look into the subject a bit.
    Of course this is in the context of a nation being raped by fuel companies, with the highest fuel costs in the OECD, plus a national record of early uptake and a national will towards reasonably green thinking. The green thinking bit doesn't turn out to stack up that well.
    Certainly I'm sick to living death of hemorrhaging money into Mobil or Shell or whatever it is these days .
    They've bought Nissan Leafs, a car which is ugly to me in the same way that Prius' are goofy. Still they have a 60 to 80 mile range ( a city day or two range) so are viable as a town car, charge em up at home.
    Its the future as battery technology moves on ,even the 2018 leaf is being promoted as having triple that range.

    But a disturbing feature is that there seems no infrastructure yet for dealing with used up batteries and rows of near dead first gen Prius'.
    On visiting an auto electrical guy a couple weeks ago I told him I thought he was in a great position to be replacing batteries and how I thought it would be a big part of his industry soon. He returned by saying people weren't replacing hybrid batteries because it simply was uneconomic, and there was no one to take the dead batteries anyway. Like a car with a broken CVT gearbox, people were just walking away from broken cars... cost more than the car is worth to fix.

    On looking at Leafs for sale here quite late model cars are devalued much more than I would expect, which leaves me thinking that there's a shift coming in how we're used to regarding cars and car value.
    An electric car is more of a commodity than we're used to. Use it and its battery up , throw it away and get a new one . So thats another negative to throw into the running cost, amortise in more devaluation. Cheaper fuel cost, take the hit when you sell , trade it or have to replace batteries.
    Of course this is just musing about joe normal cars , Heros like the Tesla might be different .

    I'd have a first gen insight for running around town like a shot, not many here though.
    Last edited by John B; 12-06-2017 at 04:45 PM.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    All of the taxis hereabouts are Priuses, so they must make sense in the city, even with our climate. I've considered buying one, but the dimensions are a problem as I have a very small garage.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    I've considered buying one, but the dimensions are a problem as I have a very small garage.
    prius c
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    The Honda Accord EXL is a luxury sedan that does everything including keeping you in your lane as you fall asleep. ;,} It will drive you around a curve too. And the best thing is that it does not have a stupid dome on the roof top. hehe Highway driving fuel mileage is 43 to 50 mpg.
    WBF=DNC

  10. #80
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    At least the prius C and new gen Prius are starting to look like normal cars , what is it with Toyota and Nissan. Its like they had board meetings about hybrids and last item on the agenda after mechanical targets to meet was
    ' and design department , make it nice and dorky looking'.

    Lo , first EV outfit that comes along with a normal approach becomes a hero company with one giant problem , can't make enough to supply the market.

    .... and thats why the VW in the OP will be successful

  11. #81
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    But a disturbing feature is that there seems no infrastructure yet for dealing with used up batteries and rows of near dead first gen Prius'.
    On visiting an auto electrical guy a couple weeks ago I told him I thought he was in a great position to be replacing batteries and how I thought it would be a big part of his industry soon. He returned by saying people weren't replacing hybrid batteries because it simply was uneconomic, and there was no one to take the dead batteries anyway. Like a car with a broken CVT gearbox, people were just walking away from broken cars... cost more than the car is worth to fix.
    Curious. Wonder what the cost of replacing a Prius main engine battery is? The main motor assist battery in our 2000 Honda Insight failed this year and the replacement cost was about $3000 USD. Since otherwise the car is in perfect shape, we thought that was reasonable, considering we've saved about $7500 on fuel over the years (compared to a 30 mpg vehicle). It has a normal 5-speed manual trans. I drove one of the automatic thingies and didn't like it.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

  12. #82
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Curious. Wonder what the cost of replacing a Prius main engine battery is? The main motor assist battery in our 2000 Honda Insight failed this year and the replacement cost was about $3000 USD. Since otherwise the car is in perfect shape, we thought that was reasonable, considering we've saved about $7500 on fuel over the years (compared to a 30 mpg vehicle). It has a normal 5-speed manual trans. I drove one of the automatic thingies and didn't like it.
    I don't know Chips , that came from the local auto electrician, but on discussing with a couple of other cars guys they said they had been told the same . The CVT comment was a general car comment. Loads of perfect looking little cars rotting in backyards because of belts.

    Maybe its just the Prius batteries . I know you can get aftermarket units for the Insight in your economy , I imagine we'd have to buy through Honda to get replacement ones here.
    Still, that will change with time I imagine.
    I did read up a bit on your car when the subject came up last time. The 'auto' gearbox version gives trouble apparently and the manual also has a lean burn feature for better economy. Like I said , I'd have one like a shot but not many around. The ones that are are priced like a 2010 car.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    I can’t help but wonder when Chip will apologize to Dan.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    I can’t help but wonder when Chip will apologize to Dan.
    Past experience would suggest that you don't hold your breath waiting....
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    I can’t help but wonder when Chip will apologize to Dan.
    Please give me an account, with quotes, of what I ought to apologise for.

    Mr. McCosh has not demanded an apology, and I'm not sure why you think you should do so.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

  16. #86
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    cost was about $3000 USD. Since otherwise the car is in perfect shape, we thought that was reasonable, considering we've saved about $7500 on fuel over the years
    I agree this is good math. But... do you recall if your hybird cost more to purchase than the ICE equivalent? And by how much?

    Kevin
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    I agree this is good math. But... do you recall if your hybird cost more to purchase than the ICE equivalent? And by how much?
    What's the ICE equivalent? We bought it for $12,000, with 18,000 miles on the clock.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    What's the ICE equivalent? We bought it for $12,000, with 18,000 miles on the clock
    .

    Sorry: ICE= Internal Combustion Engine

    How much more did ( or would have) the hybrid cost versus the equivalent car with only an internal combustion engine and no electric propulsion?

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    .

    Sorry: ICE= Internal Combustion Engine

    How much more did ( or would have) the hybrid cost versus the equivalent car with only an internal combustion engine and no electric propulsion?
    Equivalent car? What equivalent car? You figure it out.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Equivalent car? What equivalent car? You figure it out.
    OK, I say a Honda Civic is pretty comparable in size and seating to a Honda Insight. How much would a Civic of the same year, trim level and mileage have cost you when you bought the Insight?

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    OK, I say a Honda Civic is pretty comparable in size and seating to a Honda Insight. How much would a Civic of the same year, trim level and mileage have cost you when you bought the Insight?
    If you want to make some sort of case, do your own research.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

  22. #92
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    If you want to make some sort of case, do your own research.
    Forgive me, but I am having diffficulty understanding your reaction. You were so forthcoming in sharing your experience with your Insight. You shared how it saved you $7,500 in fuel; you shared that it cost you $3,000 to replace the battery. That's a net savings of $4,500. I was hoping you wouid divulge pricing, so that we could see an even more complete picture of the cost of ownership. Comparing the cost of striaght-up gas engine powered compact hatchback to your hybrid would do that.

    It's an opportunity to cut through the marketing hype and get real data straight from an owner who's been paying attention and talks like he knows his business.

    But, apparently, you don't want to share. That's OK. Just thought I'd ask.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    seasonal affective disorder
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Forgive me, but I am having diffficulty understanding your reaction. You were so forthcoming in sharing your experience with your Insight. You shared how it saved you $7,500 in fuel; you shared that it cost you $3,000 to replace the battery. That's a net savings of $4,500. I was hoping you wouid divulge pricing, so that we could see an even more complete picture of the cost of ownership. Comparing the cost of striaght-up gas engine powered compact hatchback to your hybrid would do that.

    It's an opportunity to cut through the marketing hype and get real data straight from an owner who's been paying attention and talks like he knows his business.

    But, apparently, you don't want to share. That's OK. Just thought I'd ask.

    Kevin

    Well, there you go.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

  25. #95
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Forgive me, but I am having diffficulty understanding your reaction. You were so forthcoming in sharing your experience with your Insight. You shared how it saved you $7,500 in fuel; you shared that it cost you $3,000 to replace the battery. That's a net savings of $4,500. I was hoping you wouid divulge pricing, so that we could see an even more complete picture of the cost of ownership. Comparing the cost of striaght-up gas engine powered compact hatchback to your hybrid would do that.

    It's an opportunity to cut through the marketing hype and get real data straight from an owner who's been paying attention and talks like he knows his business.

    But, apparently, you don't want to share. That's OK. Just thought I'd ask.

    Kevin
    The Insights did not sell that well, and on the used car market could be bought "right". Honda took a year off from 2015 to 2017 and revisited their hybrids. The Accords Hybrids, which is more appealing to the eye in 2017 than even the Prius sold for about 2,500 bucks more than their standard engine in 4 cyl. But the packages for the EXL in general added a lot more features lwith the heated leather seats which is standard in that model. So its hard to compare the two types of power. But the hybrids came with about 7 grand in savings. So the initial purchase was actually cheaper from the standard engine package. And Honda increased their warranty on their electrical power plant. IN town on average the 4 cyl is getting about 54 while the hwy is a bit less.

    So if you keep the hybrid longer than a couple of years or three, your savings in fuel should be pretty good from the standard engine. Its certainly quiet and the new driving features including plugging in your phone to the main screen for navigation saves you even more from buying the top of the line vehicle. The on the road safety features like lane assist is really nice too for longer trips. It has the braking feature too, slow, slower and stop. One other nice feature is the distance gauge while on cruise control on the interstates. Its amazing how many preachers of hybrids and electric vehicles drive fancy and expensive European gas guzzlers . hehe
    Last edited by erster; 12-07-2017 at 07:43 AM.
    WBF=DNC

  26. #96
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    There is no such thing as a pollution free automobile. Somewhere in it's life cycle it will be a pollution generator.

    The Insight was born a crappy car and will die one as well. I say this as an engineer that worked with them and studied them when they first came out. They were not a practical solution for a daily driver for the vast majority of the motoring public.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    There is no such thing as a pollution free automobile. Somewhere in it's life cycle it will be a pollution generator.

    The Insight was born a crappy car and will die one as well. I say this as an engineer that worked with them and studied them when they first came out. They were not a practical solution for a daily driver for the vast majority of the motoring public.
    I'd agree it's a weird critter. I'm not sure I'd say 'crappy', though. The two people I know that bought them... still own them. Use 'em as local vehicles only, in an urban environment. and they're still going strong. But, for most folks, the design/concept/packaging misses the mark. Build quality, otoh, seems to be good to excellent. As a first draft, I think it served, as Ian noted, to guide Honda into the path of hybrid versions of 'normal' cars. Overall... that seems like a good thing. I think my sweetie would consider a hybrid version of her little Fit for next time, esp. now that they've addressed the problem of excessive road noise.
    David G
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  28. #98
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    As a science project, the Insight was great. As a practical alternative for the masses, it was crap.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    As a science project, the Insight was great. As a practical alternative for the masses, it was crap.
    AND they were funny-looking!
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  30. #100
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    The Insights did not sell that well, and on the used car market could be bought "right". Honda took a year off from 2015 to 2017 and revisited their hybrids. The Accords Hybrids, which is more appealing to the eye in 2017 than even the Prius sold for about 2,500 bucks more than their standard engine in 4 cyl. But the packages for the EXL in general added a lot more features lwith the heated leather seats which is standard in that model. So its hard to compare the two types of power. But the hybrids came with about 7 grand in savings. So the initial purchase was actually cheaper from the standard engine package. And Honda increased their warranty on their electrical power plant. IN town on average the 4 cyl is getting about 54 while the hwy is a bit less.

    So if you keep the hybrid longer than a couple of years or three, your savings in fuel should be pretty good from the standard engine. Its certainly quiet and the new driving features including plugging in your phone to the main screen for navigation saves you even more from buying the top of the line vehicle. The on the road safety features like lane assist is really nice too for longer trips. It has the braking feature too, slow, slower and stop. One other nice feature is the distance gauge while on cruise control on the interstates. Its amazing how many preachers of hybrids and electric vehicles drive fancy and expensive European gas guzzlers . hehe
    Thank you, Mike. This was the kind of info I was hoping to get.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    prius c
    Hmmm. Yeah, that would work. I may have to drive one.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    A frogeye sprite is impractible and funny looking, but I'd have one of those too.
    I agree as a masses car the insight missed the target, if it had been a 4 door and a 4 cyl it could have been a market success like the prius.
    That's what they went for gen 2 and ended up with just another boring car.
    But I've had to drive 4 doors and wagons most of my adult life for kids and business, don't need to so much anymore, a rollerskate would be fine for town for Moi. Spats and alloy, man.
    Last edited by John B; 12-07-2017 at 10:48 AM.

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Thank you, Mike. This was the kind of info I was hoping to get.

    Kevin
    You should take a test drive in one. The power is incredible for that "grannie" automobile. hehe Of course it has an "ECON" selection. But rarely it gets used, which does reduce your mileage. But you are still ahead while driving in some comfort comparing these to other like sized vehicles. 43 to 46 is probably more in line averaging out across 1,000 miles of a variety of conditions. But I do have an issue long term with the half baked transmission that's in a variety of other vehicles too. IN my opinion its scary quiet to be that close to the road, IMO.
    WBF=DNC

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    There is no such thing as a pollution free automobile. Somewhere in it's life cycle it will be a pollution generator.
    Obviously this is true, but in service an electric vehicle can have a pretty small energy footprint, if the charging electricity is generated through onsite solar panels. It seems to me that continuing to develop the technology is worthwhile by any measure.

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: VW rollerskate EV crossover coming

    Quote Originally Posted by leikec View Post
    Obviously this is true, but in service an electric vehicle can have a pretty small energy footprint, if the charging electricity is generated through onsite solar panels. It seems to me that continuing to develop the technology is worthwhile by any measure.

    Jeff C
    Kat's right... no such thing as 'energy-free'. All such talk should be based upon a full 'life-cycle' evaluation that includes energy and pollution remediation from the time ore is mined, to the time the dead vehicle is scrapped/recycled/trashed. And... I suspect you are right that EV's would look good in such an analysis. But I don't recall ever actually SEEING such.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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