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Thread: dead men's eye

  1. #1
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    Default dead men's eye

    According to the dictionary , the original name is dead men's eye , But today they are called dead eye..

    This year I am planning to sail to South Greek islands and if I can find enough time , maybe Malta.. It is not easy for my small gaff cutter Blue Moon replica Tayo Mar who is designed and build by Thomas Gilmer.

    For this voyage , I decided to renovate mizzen mast.

    It is 4 m. long mast. Not so tall and I produced massive wood and dimensions are 8 cm radius at bottom and 5 cm at the top. I will sheare the productuion photo nearly, especially the connection details.

    Why I change the mast? Due to the stainless steel ring. This ring connect the shroulds to the mast. But due to the high tension or load of the sails , This rig is forced to remove to the down side cut and stick the wooden mast causes suberisation of wood. Besides this, shroulds are lacking also.

    I start to investigate how solve this problem for my new rig. The first solution that I find, useing ' manila ' rope for shroulds instead of stainless steel rope.

    This is a natural fiber rope and contains %15 oil inside and due to this it is resit to UV and salty sea water and used many years before start to use modern ropes.

    I calculate the load carry capacity and it stays at the safe side. Of course my mizzen is not so tall and total sail area of miizen sail is aprox. 5 square meters at all.

    BUt this sail so important for me and together with jib, both of sails give 5 knots boat speed at 15-20 knots wind blow.

    When I decided to use manila rope , of course I decided to use wooden dead eye blocks. I learned that the correct name is dead men's eye..

    I checked the Turkish name and it is called as ' boğata' and root is based on garotte .. I assumed that maybe all the languages these wooden blocks name is related to death.

    let me give some technical details. When I decide to use them, my first aim is due to the friction it will not work properly. But when I produced orginally my first Dead men's eye, the result was interesting for me. It works just like normal block. Because it is designed perfectly. The surface rounded and under the holes there are curved gutter for rope , and due to this , there is minimum friction on the rope. Besides this, holes are oiled when they have been used untill old , ancient times.

    I decided to use vaselin and the solution is perfect. Here is my first dead men's eye production.



    shrould rope ring around the wooden block and tight the wooden block and keep it. Also prevent the weakness of rope due to knots. Due to the extra oil, rope slide easily and oil is olso protect the natural manila rope from UV and salty sea water.

    There is no moving part and due to this , difficult to be destroyed. I can not enough information when they start to use but I beliave they are start to use untill ancient times.

    But why they are named as dead men's eye. ? I assumed it is just like skull shape when the ropes are removed. Big holes and the gutter under it for rope causes the skull seems sad olso. We know that , old sailos used some instruments to afraid the sea devils who were create the bad and deadly weather condidtions.

    Maybe besides the keep shroulds safely, they have an another secret and mysterious duty for old sailors. Keep them to the bad sea devils!

    They have no reason to afraid from old sea devils because they are already dead ! They are so brave for same reason.

    To be brave because of dead..

    Maybe instead of calling dead men's eye, it can be called as brave sailor's eye

    Can have any right to change their name ? maybe yes.. Because no ones use such blocks besides me at least in Aegean sea.

    In few days, these wooden blocks start to use in my boat and try to keep her from sea devils just like ancient times but more than this , from her crazy captain !

  2. #2
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    Default Re: dead men's eye


  3. #3
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    What a nice photo . Have you any detailed photo? These are triangular ones I think. How you are tight them ? By the way , when I was seek any information to build these blocks, I can't find any thread about that. İs there anybody who is using dead men's eye?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    A friend set up his schooner with dead-eyes. Tensioning was done by using a come-along/turfer winch, attatched to the stay with a rolling hitch. There will always be some flex in such a rig, not always a bad thing.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Purpleheart is good wood to use, traditionally the would be lignum-vitae. I have six old ones in my shed, but no photos.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    We were taught to adjust the lee shroud dead-eyes when they were slack, while sailing, if they needed it.
    Of course, our lacings were manila, and the tension would change if the got wet or dried out.
    Changed them to dacron, if I remember right, as we could afford it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    I am usingdacron to carry the gaff. The cost of dacron rope aproximately 4 US Dollar per m., Manila rope cost is 10 Cent per m. in Turkish market.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Old ways work. -- Cap'n Pete Culler

    Welcome to the Dinosaur Club!

    Available from the WoodenBoat Store, Hervey Garrett Smith's The Marlinspike Sailor (LINK) has a good bit of info about making and setting up deadeyes and lanyards.

    If you copy & paste this in your browser search window, you get a list of forum threads discussing deadeye construction & use.

    site:http://forum.woodenboat.com/ deadeyes

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
    (Keeley - Sherrard translation)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: dead men's eye


  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    What I made for Emily Ruth. The photo is during their development. I used dyneema for their tensioning line.

    Deadeyes.jpg

    Jeff

  12. #12
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    As y'all can see, I use wood for the bottoms as well.
    West Indians call them " top timbers".
    There is no metal to take the strain.
    I prefer nylon for lanyards,sometimes dacron is used.
    The only time I had grain tear out of the lowers was when I tried dyneema in one of my small boats.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Dynrema is a good material for deadeye lanyards, although it is susceptible to UV degradation. (It works very well for standing rigging, but must be parceled and served, which can't be done with lanyards.)

    That said, I really wouldn't consider manila line appropriate for marine applications. Manila shrinks when it gets wet and knots, when wet, can become almost impossible to untie. It's hard on the hands. It also has a propensity to rot when exposed to the elements.

    The proper traditional material for deadeye lanyards is true tarred hemp cordage. Manila is made from the leaf stem fibers of a particular species of banana plant. Hemp fiber is made from, well, hemp. (And, of course, when you find there's nothing in your stash bag but seeds and stems, you can smoke it in a pinch!)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by ersin boke View Post
    ...This year I am planning to sail to South Greek islands and if I can find enough time , maybe Malta.. It is not easy for my small gaff cutter Blue Moon replica Tayo Mar who is designed and build by Thomas Gilmer.
    Hey I'll be in this area next spring/summer !
    I plan to be in Cyclades Islands in May and June (before Meltem) We could meet somewhere
    Gerard.
    SCHOONER FOR EVER, GOELETTE A PERPETE

    http://www.schooner-anthea.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Thinking about the term deadeye some more.... It seems to me that a simple derivation:

    dead as in an object without moving parts; a deadeye has no sheave as does a pulley

    eye as in an opening that has somewhat the appearance of a person't eye (the vision thing); like used in the eye of the needle.

    Jeff

  16. #16
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    In french theses items are named "Cap de mouton" which can be translated by "sheep's head".

    I have to renew all the lanyards aboard Anthéa before next season.
    Gerard.
    SCHOONER FOR EVER, GOELETTE A PERPETE

    http://www.schooner-anthea.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    If you have an opportunity to meet up with Gerard, I highly recommend it. I spent a couple of days with him a year ago and we thoroughly enjoyed ourselves. If you happen to be in the same place as Anthea, she's a sight to be hold.
    Cheers,
    Daniel
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
    -Henry David Thoreau-

  18. #18
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship, 1794, by David Steel
    BLOCK-MAKING.
    https://maritime.org/doc/steel/part5.htm
    You will need to borrow one of these 2 horse power reciprocating saws. I am afraid they are not very portable, and may be difficult to find in this millenium.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    In Swedish, Dead Eye is called "jungfru" which otherwise usually means "virgin" or "maid".

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student and as a rigger apprentice http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/ in Swedish only, but there are many pictures :-)

  20. #20
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    what a nice boat mohsart, have you connection details at the top of mast..?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Thanks.
    There is a build thread here http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...pa-rundgatting
    Perhaps it is better to ask there than hijacking this thread.

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student and as a rigger apprentice http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/ in Swedish only, but there are many pictures :-)

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    Default Re: dead men's eye


  23. #23
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by ersin boke View Post


    That is some crappy looking rope.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  24. #24
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    That is some crappy looking rope.
    Agreed. Looks like it's damaged in so that one strand takes almost all the load. Is it sisal?

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student and as a rigger apprentice http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/ in Swedish only, but there are many pictures :-)

  25. #25
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Maybe looks like crappy , this winter we will see the performance of manila rope. If compare with the dynema price , dynema olso looks like crappy for me..

    BUt before how it looks like , the problem is , if it is wet, impossible open the knot.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Manila swells and shortens when wet so not the best for standing rigging.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Manilla is ok as a material, but those ropes looks like they are damaged.
    Then, are your only choises manilla or dynema? If spunflex is available it may be an alternative

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student and as a rigger apprentice http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/ in Swedish only, but there are many pictures :-)

  28. #28
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by ersin boke View Post
    Maybe looks like crappy , this winter we will see the performance of manila rope. If compare with the dynema price , dynema olso looks like crappy for me..

    BUt before how it looks like , the problem is , if it is wet, impossible open the knot.
    The lay is not as tight as it should be and is uneven with different strands bearing different load.
    See how tight and even this lay up is
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  29. #29
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by mohsart View Post
    Manilla is ok as a material, but those ropes looks like they are damaged.
    Then, are your only choises manilla or dynema? If spunflex is available it may be an alternative

    /Mats
    Sure , spunflex type rope can be alternative and seems traditional. I mentioned about dynema because of no stretch property. The rope is a new package and I think due to the first friction of deadeyes rope seems damaged or seems old maybe.

    But as before said, I test myself that manila can be a traditional rope but due to the shrinkage it is not suitable material for shrouds. Also when it is wet , so difficult to open the knot.

    BUt , I beliave to connect shrouds to the boat, deadeye is so suitable and no harm to the wooden mast. After such experiences and commends about th subject for mizzen mast, Next season I am planning to use deadeyes for main mast.

    Thank you for comments..

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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by Thad View Post
    Manila swells and shortens when wet so not the best for standing rigging.
    Interesting property. This link says that you can reduce the problem by pre shrinking by soaking and drying before use.
    http://www.traditionalropecompany.co.uk/shrinkage.htm
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  31. #31
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    I'd say it's either damaged, badly made or not intended for use.
    A rope that looks like that can have as little as 1/3 of the strength of a good rope.
    It may be dangerous to use.

    /Mats
    My blog about my time as a boat building student and as a rigger apprentice http://kaptenmohsart.blogspot.se/ in Swedish only, but there are many pictures :-)

  32. #32
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by mohsart View Post
    I'd say it's either damaged, badly made or not intended for use.
    A rope that looks like that can have as little as 1/3 of the strength of a good rope.
    It may be dangerous to use.

    /Mats
    I think that it is just cheap nasty stuff meant for agricultural use, tying down tarpaulins or similar.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  33. #33
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    here is the wooden bollard (not sure the right English word ) for shrouds just top of deadeye (fully handmade and ireco used.. )

    Last edited by ersin boke; 12-07-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by ersin boke View Post
    here is the wooden bollard (not sure the right English word ) for shrouds just top of deadeye

    That is a cleat. If you are going to lash it to the shroud you need to work a groove underneath it so that it will not rock on the shroud.




    Lash it over the cleat, not through the hole as that is a weak point.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: dead men's eye

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I think that it is just cheap nasty stuff meant for agricultural use, tying down tarpaulins or similar.
    I was just wondering where Matthew Walker was when you needed him...
    Heute ist so ein schöne Tag...

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