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Thread: Building a Hvalsoe-13

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Yeadon also bonded planks and scarfs in place. That is, on the boat, not the bench.

    Nothing particularly fast about it, any way you look at it.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    When I was working on my 15' Lincolnville Salmon Wherry, I found my spar bench to be absolutely invaluable for gluing scarfed planking. I would screw down wood pads as guides for a dry fit, and when all was perfect, slather on the epoxy, fir the plank to the guides, and away I went. In cold weather I would cover the joint with a heating pad, and covered that with a mover's blanket, since I had an unheated working space. Worked like a charm.

    The HV13 is a beautiful boat. I too rowed the one at the CWB, veddy nize.
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    So I'm back.....

    The holidays got in the way of boat building but that was OK. It was nice to take a break and not have to think about it for a week or so.

    Before hanging any more planks, I decided to install the keel and the skeg. Being glued lap, the keel sits on top of the beveled garboard, bedded into a generous pad of thickened epoxy. The skeg then sits atop the keel. I will add a shoe later on when I install the outer stem. The shoe and stem must be fitted together at their intersection.

    Installing the skeg:

    Skeg install.jpg

    That wedge in the skeg is because I found a sap pocket in an otherwise perfect piece of doug fir. A quick cut, some epoxy, and the problem is gone.

    I devised a planking schedule that sort of goes:
    1. Bevel the last plank now that it's on the boat.
    2. Cut the gains if I were neglectful and forgot to do so while the plank was on the bench.
    3. Clamp the adjustable planking pattern as close to the bevel as possible, use a scribe to mark the bevel line, and mark the location of molds on the pattern.
    4. Remove pattern and add the new plank's width to it at each mold.
    5. Decide where the scarfs will be and lay the pattern onto planking stock. Mark out the two plank components.
    6. Scarf the plank parts, epoxy together, go have a beer because there's nothing to be done till the epoxy cures.
    7. Trim the new plank, wash off the blush before you forget to and wish you had.
    8. Fit it to the boat.
    Repeat till it's time for whiskey.

    I decided I prefer to glue up the scarfs while they are on the bench rather than on the boat. Actually, I only surmised that I'd rather do this because I haven't tried to do it while hanging the plank. The 6mm stock is pretty wiggly stuff. I simply can't think of a way to fit the plank without it being one continuous piece, bow to stern.

    Here's where I'm at now, Five planks to go:

    Halfway planked, stern.jpg

    Halfway planked, bow.jpg

    More to come.....

    Jeff

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    For those who care about such things, here is a photo series of the steps I take to scarf the planking stock:

    First I lay my long plank pattern on the work bench. This pattern has been fitted to the bevel line of the prior plank. I nail locating blocks at the pattern's fitted edge. I also mark the location of the molds onto the bench.
    Plank scarfing - 1.jpg

    Then I plane the scarfs onto the plywood planking stock.
    Plank scarfing - 2.jpg

    The scarfed pieces lay up against the locating blocks.
    Plank scarfing - 3.jpg

    The long view.
    Plank scarfing - 4.jpg

    Apply epoxy to all the scarfed faces, lay them in place while remembering to put plastic sheeting between them. I use my pin nail gun to tack the parts down so they don't move. The pins go along the edge where they'll be eventually epoxied to the next plank.
    Plank scarfing - 5.jpg

    Sweep the floor, go away till the next day......

    Jeff

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    That next plank or two at the turn of the transom is where I had trouble. It took some fudging.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    For those who care about such things, here is a photo series of the steps I take to scarf the planking stock:

    First I lay my long plank pattern on the work bench. This pattern has been fitted to the bevel line of the prior plank. I nail locating blocks at the pattern's fitted edge. I also mark the location of the molds onto the bench.
    Plank scarfing - 1.jpg

    ......Sweep the floor, go away till the next day......

    Jeff
    I cannot even believe you have a table long enough to do this. I made an 8 foot table for my rudder project and I feel like I've got it made in the shade. A 16 foot table??? whoah... In my dreams.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    That next plank or two at the turn of the transom is where I had trouble. It took some fudging.
    Oh great, Rich. Now how am I supposed to sleep tonight?

    OK, I'll just keep telling myself that it couldn't be any worse than the garboard.... What sort of problems did you have?

    I'll report back.

    Jeff

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan H View Post
    I cannot even believe you have a table long enough to do this. I made an 8 foot table for my rudder project and I feel like I've got it made in the shade. A 16 foot table??? whoah... In my dreams.
    Alan, yes, I'm fortunate to have the space to set up this work surface.

    Jeff

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Looks great! That is a beautiful design and I'll bet it will row like a dream.

    From the 3 pairs of ear-muffs, I can see that you're as big a fan of personal protective equipment as I am. Good to see!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Oh great, Rich. Now how am I supposed to sleep tonight?

    OK, I'll just keep telling myself that it couldn't be any worse than the garboard.... What sort of problems did you have?

    I'll report back.

    Jeff
    The problem was that the plank is flat and the transom round. The ply doesn't want to bend around it. That's why most glued lap boats have the planks jogged into the transom, but I don't like that look, so I just fudged things with a bit of thickened epoxy. These are the kind of things I didn't show close-ups of in my build thread!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    The problem was that the plank is flat and the transom round. The ply doesn't want to bend around it. That's why most glued lap boats have the planks jogged into the transom, but I don't like that look, so I just fudged things with a bit of thickened epoxy. These are the kind of things I didn't show close-ups of in my build thread!
    It's looking nice Jeff. If I sent you text pertaining to the 16 much it pertains to the 13, and the issue of getting around the transom is addressed - or that may be in a later addendum.

    I've planked my boats in 3/8, not 6 ml, but I expect the same principal applies;

    The planking obviously does not 'cup' around the transom radius as Rich points out. Neither is the transom jogged for the planking. Instead the transom is faceted for the planking - as you plank up.

    The transom is initially cut in a fair curve and accurately beveled. Facets are rasped or filed from the corner of the last plank gain installed on the boat to the next line off mark on the transom. I focus on the aft edge, I don't facet the entire thickness of the transom - gotta preserve those line off marks on the aft face. The gains in fact transition from a feather edge for the first few planks, to a feather corner around the transom radius, possibly back to a full feather by the time you get to the sheer plank. When doing the stern gains of those middle planks going round the transom radius, you take a look at the transom and consider what the next facet looks like, and approximately cut the gain accordingly.

    Maybe a simpler way to explain this is that, the transom is faceted between the line off marks as you plank up. Around the turn of the transom, what's left above the facet becomes a wedge shaped gain. Obviously then, where the gain was left as a wedge the plank corner is left high. Fine. Been doing it that way for 35 years. For a varnished transom a lovely fair curve is regained by masking off. Nothing particularly difficult about it. I guess if the whole boat is varnished - well then the whole boat is varnished.

    Good Luck,
    Eric
    Last edited by Eric Hvalsoe; 01-15-2018 at 09:57 AM.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Edit to add - plank thickness and lap width are the wild cards here regarding several aspects of how the boat planks up, including getting around the curve of the transom.

    Previous post best summarized as "facet aft edge of transom, adjust gains to suit, fill remaining (inboard) landing of plank across transom with bedding or epoxy".

    I'd have to do it or draw it to see how that geometry works with 6 ml and a given lap width.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    The first five planks are in an area of the transom that is, more or less, concave. Not wanting to joggle the plank edge into the transom, I employed a bit of "creative" beveling and used a waxed screw where needed to force the ply to cup into the curve while the epoxy cured. Thus, those planks follow the transom's curve pretty well. Thus:

    Five planks, stern - 1.jpg

    Then, when fitting the sixth plank I realized that things would be different from now on. Checking my drafted layout, I saw that this is where I predicted the lower plank edges would begin to stand proud of the transom. This is exactly how I built Emily Ruth following John Brooks' instructions on cutting what he calls dory gains. They require faceting the transom, of course, as Eric has recommended to me. (Thank you for those instructions for the Hv16, Eric. Very helpful!)

    I've yet to hang plank 6, but will likely do so today. The gains are mostly cut and the epoxied scarf ought to be cured now. I'll post photos. The change in the way the planks lie will be apparent.

    Thanks for all the interest and encouragement!

    Jeff

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Eric,
    Do you have a method and tools planned for cutting the facets around the turn of the bilge? I have found bandfiles or mini belt sanders to be very effective with course belts for working with plywood edges. The narrow width makes them very easy to control.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Eric,
    Do you have a method and tools planned for cutting the facets around the turn of the bilge? I have found bandfiles or mini belt sanders to be very effective with course belts for working with plywood edges. The narrow width makes them very easy to control.
    First choice probably a japanese rasp. Moving into the work. In my description the inside edge of the transom is barely touched if at all,
    so blow out is not (knock on wood) a problem. I also use horseshoe rasps.

    The facet is faired into the gain and to the lower line off mark.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Nice job Jeff. 'Just found this one and look forward to following your progress.
    PeterW

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Eric,
    Do you have a method and tools planned for cutting the facets around the turn of the bilge? I have found bandfiles or mini belt sanders to be very effective with course belts for working with plywood edges. The narrow width makes them very easy to control.

    I mostly rely on a very sharp inch and half wide chisel.

    Jeff

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Falcon, you noticed my ear muffs! What's the big idea looking around the shop? You're supposed to be looking at the boat!

    Just yanking your chain of course..... My hearing is next to worthless most of the time. Protecting what I have left is a priority. For particularly noisy operations I'll put in ear plugs under the muffs. I can hear myself thinking then.

    Peter... Thanks for looking in.

    Jeff

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Since we were talking about getting the planks to conform to the transom curves, here is a photo to illustrate how that is coming along:

    plank joggles.jpg

    In this photo, Plank 7 is only temporarily screwed into place but you can see how the planks lower edges are starting to rise away from the transom. I've faceted the transom to allow this. Also, as Eric pointed out earlier, the gains have to be different. They simply follow the plane of the faceted transom. I do this with a rabbet plane mostly with some chisel work at the incised shoulder.



    Some more progress. This afternoon I got plank #7 glued onto the boat. Three planks to go....

    Fitting the plank:

    Fitting plank 7.jpg

    I was pleased to find that this plank hit the bevel line, on the previous plank, right off the bat. That's a first for me. Usually there is some fudging somewhere along the edge. Perhaps it's due to the planks beginning to straighten out. There is noticeably less curvature in this plank. I'm also please that it takes just a few clamps to hold it fair to the molds. The plank shown is still too wide by about a half inch. After making sure it lies on the bevel, I mark the offset to the next line-off marks and trim it. Once one plank fits, I clamp the other one to it and trim them alike. If I'm lucky, I've remembered to mark the mold positions onto the other plank. I'm not always so lucky....

    Another thing regarding fitting the plank... The rule of thumb is to let the plank lie in a natural manner against the molds. Edge set should be avoided. I adhere to this mantra most of the time. But as I learned from Eric, some edge set can be beneficial. I try to get the fit to require a very slight upwards push (up is toward the boat's keel) at the stem and transom. This slight flexing forces the plank to better lie tight to the adjacent mold. The movement isn't much... maybe 1/16", but it seems to help.

    Then visit the head, mix up a batch of epoxy, get all my screws ready, bag the drill so I don't get epoxy all over it, and stick them on.

    From the bow:
    Plank 7 is glued, bow.jpg

    And the stern:
    Plank 7 is glued, stern.jpg

    I have to admit, it's rather satisfying to see the hull taking form.

    Jeff

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Nailed it! Yes, looking very nice.
    Jeff, remind me of your lap width. On the 3/8" cedar hulls it is 3/4".

    That's a pretty good explanation of my edge set tweak. The gains have a tendency to spring the lower edge of the plank away from the mold. Some edge set - only at the very ends - between fore and aft most mold and stem and transom - seems to fight that a little bit.

    . . . or Jeff are you doing something any different than that?

    Eric
    Last edited by Eric Hvalsoe; 01-19-2018 at 09:24 AM.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hvalsoe View Post
    Nailed it! Yes, looking very nice.
    Jeff, remind me of your lap width. On the 3/8" cedar hulls it is 3/4".

    That's a pretty good explanation of my edge set tweak. The gains have a tendency to spring the lower edge of the plank away from the mold. Some edge set - only at the very ends - between fore and aft most mold and stem and transom - seems to fight that a little bit.

    . . . or Jeff are you doing something any different than that?

    Eric
    Thanks, Eric. I'm using 3/4" laps on the 6mm ply. Given that you use the same width on thicker stock, perhaps I'm overdoing it. But anything less than 3/4 seems too small.... that's just a gut feeling with no theoretical basis whatsoever.

    I am edge setting exactly as you describe. I tweak the ends just a bit. This seemed to help quite a lot especially on the garboard and #2 and 3. As the plank shape has gotten straighter, less tweaking seems necessary.

    As I'm working on the planking a piece of my brain has been contemplating the rest of the boat. One of the things I'm debating is choice of wood for inwale and outwale. Initially I figured on using doug fir but that may be too soft nor stiff enough. So perhaps white oak is the next alternative. I've got a supply of sapele but my thoughts have always been to keep the wood colors in the lighter range. Sapele is not light. Other than white oak, I'm uncertain of another good wood that would be available at Edensaw. Anyone have thoughts... suggestions?

    Anyway, that choice is still a few weeks off. Got to finish the planking first then see if the hull comes off the molds. I've been diligent about cleaning off the gooshed out epoxy, but there's always some that gets missed. Once the hull is upright I'll work out how to build in forward and aft flotation compartments. Yeadon's Hv18 is a model to strive toward. And there's always oar making if I need a break from the actual boat. Oh the decisions yet to be made..........

    Jeff

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Reading this thread is an education...Thank you, gentlemen.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    I also used 3/4" laps on my Hvalsoe13. As for inwales and all other interior wood, I used American Black Cherry, which is readily available in my area.
    Good job with working those transom curves!
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Beautiful work, Jeff.

    +1 for cherry

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    The epoxy set off during the night, so today I carried on. My procedure is pretty well established now:
    Remove the clamping battens
    Mark a line 3/4" from the lower plank edge
    Bevel to that line
    Finish cutting the gains at bow and stern
    Using the adjustable pattern, spile the new plank
    Cut out the plank parts, epoxy them together.

    It's all getting fairly routine now and the skills required are becoming more refined with each plank. This is somewhat a blessing in that it's nice to know I am getting better at the work. But also a curse in that once this boat is planked, those skill will become rusty again. Until the next boat, then I get to start all over again. Such is the way of the amateur boat builder.

    Here is some of today's effort. First a look, and comparison, of the bow and transom gains:

    Plank 7, Bow gain.jpg

    Plank 7, transom gain.jpg

    You can see that they differ from one another quite a bit. The rabbet at the stem must end up as an extension of the stem bevel. I usually get it real close, but there is still a tiny offset that, I think, accents the plank by not allowing the edge to completely disappear. The rabbet at the transom is an extension of the facet that has been cut for the new plank. This gain is started on the bench but only cut deep enough to establish the rabbet edge. I finish when it's glued up onto the transom. This gain is slower to cut than the one at the stem.

    Then I made the pattern for the new plank, #8:

    Plank 8, new shape.jpg

    The segmented pattern is now cut. Look at only the right edge as it appears in the photo. The pattern has been used enough now that it's no longer wide enough to show both edges. What's interesting is that the shape of the plank is now slightly convex in its middle section. All the previous planks were concave. So this leads me to wonder where they'll go next? Perhaps the final plank will spell out hvalsoe in script!

    Plank 8 is now been scarfed and the epoxy is gelling. (I hope.)

    More news as it develops.....

    Jeff

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    +2 on cherry for the wales. That's what I used on my glued-lap boat a couple of years ago and it seems to be working out fine after ~700 miles.
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Those planks can look pretty wonky on the bench, but beautiful once on the boat.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    This boat looks like a really nice one, and the way you managed to eliminate the joggling at the transom even tempts me to build a transom boat one day.

    This diagram out of Eric McKee's "Working Boats of Britain" illustrates the way planking shape changes as you move up in a typical hull shape.

    McKee Planking curves.jpg

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    And finally... today I got the final planks hung. Whiskey time. (isn't it always?)

    Whiskey planks.jpg

    It will be nice to work on other aspects of the boat for a change. As you can see, there's a lot of cleanup to do on the hull. Holes need filling and excess epoxy must be scraped off. I'm still undecided about adding screws at the transom and stem.

    After the hull is presentable, I'll add the outer stem and shoe. Then turn it over and hope it doesn't fall apart.

    I've been reading up on oars and their making. I'm most likely to go with a traditional flat blade a' la Pete Culler. It seems that 8' will be about right.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    On mine, I put screws in the transom and stem as extra insurance, but they probably aren't needed.
    Once flipped, I have little doubt that it will fall apart.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    I've been fussing with cleaning up the hull a past couple of days. I got a new scraper from Admiral Ship Supply up in Port Townsend that is really great. It has a carbide blade that came and is staying quite sharp. I hate having to sharpen a scraper all the time and the thickened epoxy is tough on scrapers. Even with heat, the going is difficult. So the new guy helps out a lot.

    It's not much fun spending a few hours scraping off the epoxy drools and dabs but I got it done. And I didn't go completely insane doing it. I suppose a guy might take this job in pieces... say after each plank. But why suffer each day?

    After scraping, I sanded the plank edges and did a bit of chamfering:

    Chamfering the plank edge.jpg

    Then I decided to attach the keel shoe and outer stem. I simply used thickened epoxy to attach the shoe but added three big screws to the stem along with it's epoxy. I know I might regret that decision to glue on the stem if I ever ram anything really hard. Replacing it would be a task. But, I'll be careful.....

    Photos of the boat as it now sits in the shop:

    Bow view, 2-2-18.jpg

    Stern view, 2-2-18.jpg

    The white goo is epoxy thickened with microballoons being used as a filler. I'll have some more to do along these lines later on. Gotta get the bottom really smooth so that water won't even think about slowing me down.

    I decided to add the screws at stem and transom to help keep the planks in place. I had them and figured if I put them in that would be one less thing I'd worry about when I wake up at 3:00 am and can't get back to sleep.

    It's still fun!

    Jeff

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Looking good, Jeff!

    I used screws at the plank ends when I built Fire-Drake, mostly because it was hard to clamp them properly without them. I left them in for, as you say, insurance.
    Last edited by AJZimm; 02-04-2018 at 06:45 PM. Reason: typo
    Alex

    "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. We do be afraid of the sea, and we only be drowned now and again" Aran Islands Fisherman

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Say, nice boat.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    Plodding along..... I got the boat turned over. But, prior to doing so I wanted to try bending the outwale onto the shear while the hull was still on the building jig. I was afraid that the compression exerted by the wale would distort the hull. Well, it didn't. Something that is no surprise to more experienced builders. When I clamped the wale on, there was still the same amount of gap between the hull and the molds... maybe 1/8" max. So I decided to put the outwale aside for later installation. It will be quite a bit easier, I think, when the hull is upright and I can see the top edge of the shear plank.

    So, turning the hull:

    Turning the hull.jpg

    That went well and without any issues. I kept two molds in place to act as compression members against the strap pressure. They flopped around a bit, but no problems.

    Then I built a cradle on wheels for the hull:

    Cradle view, bow.jpg

    Cradle view, stern.jpg

    Today I get to begin cleaning up the interior. Lots of gooshed epoxy to scrape out, interior support to remove, and then holes to fill. I'm looking forward to installing the wales, thwart, etc.

    Jeff

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    10,498

    Default Re: Building a Hvalsoe-13

    I'm really surprised that more people don't use the Tom Hill method that I've used on all my glued lap boats. The planks are clamped to ribbands rather then screwed temporarily to the molds. All my boats didn't have a single screw hole to fill other then the stem and stern. Saves a lot of time and aggravation. Of all the glued lap boats seen on this Forum, I seem to be the only one to use that screwless method. The only down side is that you need a zillion clamps and are limited to a plank per side per day.
    The problem with screws is a possible hard spot in the final finish.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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