Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 75

Thread: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    22,952

    Default America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    696

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    That will take a lot of development work and testing time on the water, not sure

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    The AC multihull haters are still going to hate this thing. I think it shivs some sailors egos that the AC boats don't look like their sailboat, not even close enough to pretend. Reality is AC boats are never going to look the same as the peoples boats.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Auckland ,N.Z.
    Posts
    23,655

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Back 2 Americas cups ago we were anchored at the back of rangitoto island when the TNZ cat foiled along up the east coast bays.
    ' its foiling ... can't be ... no, its foiling'.
    Other people saw it , some photographed it and That week all the sailing websites frothed with 'photoshop!'
    No one believed it could be done, but of course they did and at the same time they lost the Americas cup right then and there by spilling the secret too early.

    They'll do this too .

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    1,290

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    If it foils then I don't care how many hulls it has. No interest because it's way way way outside my world of experiences. They might as well be racing spaceships.

    Jeff

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,964

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Just another choice.
    Might be interesting.
    It would be fun if they can match or exceed the multi performance.

    But an equivalent boat I could sail would never make it in the local lakes. Stuck in the mud too much of the time, won't fit the launch ramp.
    Certainly another rich mans toy.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,757

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    From the website:

    An underlying principle has been to provide affordable and sustainable technology ‘trickle down’ to other sailing classes and yachts. Whilst recent America's Cup multihulls have benefitted from the power and control of rigid wing sails, there has been no transfer of this technology to the rigs of other sailing classes. In tandem with the innovations of the foiling system, Emirates Team New Zealand and Luna Rossa are investigating a number of possible innovations for the AC75's rig, with the requirement that the rig need not be craned in and out each day.
    So there is an effort to create technology that can spread to other racing classes. I won't be looking to by a foiler, but I'm on board with this concept for the next series.
    -Dave

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,757

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Here's something I speculated on in an earlier thread. What happens when that lifted foil sweeps the deck of the opponent? Will they adjust the sailing rules in some way -- those blades can slice a man in half.



    -Dave

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    4,012

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    If it foils then I don't care how many hulls it has. No interest because it's way way way outside my world of experiences. They might as well be racing spaceships.

    Jeff
    If you were fishing out of a 14 ft clinker dory for a living back in the late 1800s, a "J Boat" might as well have been a "spaceship". The A C has always been "out there" in terms of pushing the limits of design and engineering, its no different today.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    4,012

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Here's something I speculated on in an earlier thread. What happens when that lifted foil sweeps the deck of the opponent? Will they adjust the sailing rules in some way -- those blades can slice a man in half.



    I suspect that you'd lose the protest if that happened.
    Dont forget that the catamarans claimed a life time before last, I sincerely hope that never happens again but extreme sports are extreme.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gold Coast Australia
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Bring it on.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    8,676

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Love it, I'll be watching.
    There's no rule that says one can't love a classic wooden yacht and a cutting edge foiling monohull as well.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,533

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    If you were fishing out of a 14 ft clinker dory for a living back in the late 1800s, a "J Boat" might as well have been a "spaceship". The A C has always been "out there" in terms of pushing the limits of design and engineering, its no different today.

    John Welsford
    Not sure, John. The early challengers were just normal large cruiser/racers; in fact only one of them was actually fully competitive in its home waters. That pretty much set the standard by which AC design lagged behind smaller boats and, in later years, behind offshore racers. A few indications;

    Multis - racing as a class in the 1880s; racing offshore 1950s; high-tech pro racing 1980s; AC 1988
    Bermudan rigs - used for international racing 1890s, used for the AC late 1920s or early 1930s
    Fin keels - a couple of years behind the small Raters (thanks JohnW for pointing out that I had exaggerated the lag)
    Lightweight planing/surfing hulls - Canoes and Raters 1890s, offshore boats 1950s, offshore maxis 1965, AC boats..... well, arguably never.
    Sandwich/exotic construction - O Jolle 1950s, skiffs and offshore racers 1960s, AC boats 1987.
    Exotic spars - 505s 1970s, maxi ocean racers 1978, AC boats 1988
    Wingsails - Canoes and Moths 1950s-ish, C Class cats 1970s, offshore multis 1985 I think, AC boats 2014 (with a blip in '88)
    Mylar/film sails - Solos, Stars and Cottontails 1950s-1960s, AC boats 1974 or 78
    Canting keels - never made it to the AC.
    Assymetric spinnakers - 18 Foot Skiffs c 1984, offshore racers 1989, AC boats about 1991?
    Roachy mains - shorthanded boats 1970s/80s, AC boats 1991?
    "Compromise sloop" design - 41s, 46s and then AC boats, I think

    A boat like Stormvogel, Black Soo, Ragtime/Infidel, Ceramco, NZ Enterprise, The Red Lion or Waverider was way in advance of the AC boats of their era. Charles Hiedsick, Paragon, Manureva, the shorthanded monos were all arguably even further ahead.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,533

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by sailnstink View Post
    Reality is AC boats are never going to look the same as the peoples boats.
    \

    They weren't all that much different to normal club racing boats, size apart, in some earlier eras. The L x SA rule America's Cuppers were bigger and (normally) less radical versions of the hundreds of little Rater types that were sailing around the world at the time, in lots of little clubs.

    The Js and other Universal Rule boats were pretty much just big sisters to the Rs, Ns and other boats that were sailed at lots of normal clubs across North America, and very similar to big sisters of the 6s, 8s and 12s that were sailed around the coast in the UK. There were also lots of small ODs inspired by International Rule boats, even Columbia 5.5s, UK Darings, etc. Size apart, a 5.5 Metre and a 12 Metre are pretty damn similar in many ways to sail.

    More modern boats like Ron Holland's 11 Metre One Design were intended to be baby versions of the IACC class, which was in itself not too much different from the early crop of maxis that came out when the IMS died. Boats like Shockwave (the 80 footer), the Maxi 86s and the first Nicorette were quite similar to the IACC boats generally. If you were sailing on a Melges 24 or Rocket 7.8 you could easily understand an IACC boat.

    Something like a 12 Metre is pretty easy for a competent sailor to race, even as bowman in a class race. In contrast, I suppose an A Class sailor could understand an AC50 pretty easily in some ways, but the rigs and size were vastly different. And it looks as though no one will be able to really identify with the new AC boats in the same way, since there is nothing really remotely close apart perhaps from the very few Quant 23s that are around (and apparently under-performing).

    We had a chance to return to sanity and follow the lessons of other popular sports and what studies tell us about why people do sports. We blew it, again.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    We had a chance to return to sanity and follow the lessons of other popular sports and what studies tell us about why people do sports. We blew it, again.
    The AC racing in Macgregor 26s would not make sailing more popular. Only weekend buoy racers with 4 knot snotboxes want to see lame AC boats so they can tell themselves they do the same thing. As for sailing declining in general that's simple, people have less time, less real money, and less testosterone. Last one is not a joke T levels are way down in Western populations.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    22,952

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Stuffing the bow when accelerating at the start or at a buoy rounding could be just as or more interesting than with the cats. I wonder of the midship foils will tilt fore and aft like the cats'. It's also interesting that they show standing grinders versus cyclors in the animation. I thought the cycling had proven to be better for maintaining higher and more even levels of hydraulic pressure over the course of a race. Raising those ballasted foils will take substantial power.
    Last edited by rbgarr; 11-21-2017 at 08:47 AM.
    "... and the great shroud of the sea rolled on as it rolled five thousand years ago."

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Grosse Pointe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    13,203

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    I don't know the restrictions on an AC design, but this one looks like it would take a fairly sophisticated power and control system. I thought that AC boats had to be all manual. It also raises a fairly basic question: What is the definition of a boat, anyway? Does it have to float? How much of the craft has to be in the water to consider it a boat?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    1,290

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    If you were fishing out of a 14 ft clinker dory for a living back in the late 1800s, a "J Boat" might as well have been a "spaceship". The A C has always been "out there" in terms of pushing the limits of design and engineering, its no different today.

    John Welsford

    I'll bet that just about any late 1800's fisherman competent in his 14' dory could go aboard a J Boat and know how to sail her. He'd know how the boat should "feel" in the water, he'd know how to adjust the basic sails, and he'd know, more or less, how to steer her properly. Now, take a modern day sailor and plunk him/her into a foiling anything. No instruction allowed. That boat's going nowhere.

    Sure, I've a degree of intellectual curiosity about the foiling boats. The same as I have about rocket ships. But they don't raise my physical interest. I cannot vicariously place myself at the helm of one of these craft. I could do that watching the 12 meter boats race. That's what I miss about AC.

    Jeff

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hamilton New Zealand
    Posts
    4,012

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    I'll bet that just about any late 1800's fisherman competent in his 14' dory could go aboard a J Boat and know how to sail her. He'd know how the boat should "feel" in the water, he'd know how to adjust the basic sails, and he'd know, more or less, how to steer her properly. Now, take a modern day sailor and plunk him/her into a foiling anything. No instruction allowed. That boat's going nowhere.

    Sure, I've a degree of intellectual curiosity about the foiling boats. The same as I have about rocket ships. But they don't raise my physical interest. I cannot vicariously place myself at the helm of one of these craft. I could do that watching the 12 meter boats race. That's what I miss about AC.

    Jeff
    I didn't like the "12s" . Heavy slow dinosaurs of things with all sorts of complications to wring the very last fraction of a knot out of them under a rule that punished any feature that would allow then to go faster. I did though enjoy the IACC boats that superseded them, especially the first two or so generations which were at least reasonably fast without being overly complex, and which made pretty good match racers.
    I've sailed on both, the 12 felt as though it were dragging a sea anchor, it was horrible to sail, the IACC boat in comparison was a pleasure but had much much higher loadings than you'd expect at first sight. 20 tons of lead on the bottom end of a keel three times my height makes for an extreme rmf curve, and momentum which makes the boat very different to sail.
    Neither of them had as much in common with "ordinary boats" as one might think, both from the design point of view and from the sailing point of view.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    And a modern driver couldn't drive a modern F-1 car out of pit road. That's OK, matter of fact that is the way it is supposed to be. High sport is supposed to be inspirational, to inspire you to sail your 14' dory better, if high sport threatens your ego you are thinking about it wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    I'll bet that just about any late 1800's fisherman competent in his 14' dory could go aboard a J Boat and know how to sail her. He'd know how the boat should "feel" in the water, he'd know how to adjust the basic sails, and he'd know, more or less, how to steer her properly. Now, take a modern day sailor and plunk him/her into a foiling anything. No instruction allowed. That boat's going nowhere.

    Sure, I've a degree of intellectual curiosity about the foiling boats. The same as I have about rocket ships. But they don't raise my physical interest. I cannot vicariously place myself at the helm of one of these craft. I could do that watching the 12 meter boats race. That's what I miss about AC.

    Jeff

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,757

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    I don't know the restrictions on an AC design, but this one looks like it would take a fairly sophisticated power and control system. I thought that AC boats had to be all manual. It also raises a fairly basic question: What is the definition of a boat, anyway? Does it have to float? How much of the craft has to be in the water to consider it a boat?
    Here's a point I like to debate, and of course there's no final answer.

    The proposed AC "craft" is, I would argue, a legitimate boat because it's held up by the water -- like any boat at rest and by the foils when it gets moving at a certain speed. But there are craft under development that I argue are not boats at all. Take the Vestus SailRocket, in particular. This craft does float at rest, but once it gets going, that canted wing is trying to lift it clear of the water. The foil hook below it does NOT provide lift. It holds the boat down, in direct opposition to the lift of the wing.

    This principal is brilliant when it comes to creating a very very fast craft. But is it a watercraft or an aircraft? I think it's best understood as a glider that uses an inverted foil to help control its direction and, more importantly, to allow the craft to fully exploit the energy differential between air and water.

    To put it more simply, if the foils break off on a foiling Moth or the AC design, the boat drops down to the water. If the foil breaks off or breaks free of the water on the Sailrocket (this has happened) the craft lifts into the air quite rapidly -- and then loses all stability, rolls and crashes back into the water. Not a boat in my book.



    Image from this website, where you'll find a full explanation of the Sailrocket.
    Last edited by Woxbox; 11-21-2017 at 01:27 PM.
    -Dave

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Cushing, Maine
    Posts
    3,144

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    On the small size there are some foilers available at less than the cost and complexity of a foiling Moth, to wit a daggerboard that can go into a Laser and a foil born version of the old Catfish catamaran called a UFO. There are foils that can be used with sail boards, kites and surfboards and even a powered foiling stand up paddle board.

    The minimum wind needed to get up is a real issue. At the last C class cat worlds the winning French foiling entry was pitted against the second place cat, a non foiling lightweight boat with banana boards which did provide some lift. When the wind dropped below about 4 the conventional cat scooted away but all it took was a few puffs to get foil born and the foiler more than made up for it.

    Also of interest and not yet developed ( this is just a draft folks) is the requirement that you don't have a crane to put the rig in. C-Class folks have figured out how to stand up a wing using a few people but it won't work on the scale here, so it will be back to some kind of soft sails.

    It is hard to tell what benefit if any the foil development will have for the rest of us. One of the biggest things in post WWII underbody developments was understanding the nuances of shaping keels and centerboards. Any one who has swapped a flat plate centerboard out for a fat foil shaped one or done the same for a rudder understands the immediate benefit.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    The new sail rule might lead to some interesting and useful technology. I suspect they are going to be double surface and celled. Sort of a ram air parachute/paraglider raised up a mast sideways. Back when I had a closet full of old ram air parachutes I thought about cutting one up and trying it as a sail raised sideways on a mast, not flown as a kite, alas I was too lazy to give it a go.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,533

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by sailnstink View Post
    The AC racing in Macgregor 26s would not make sailing more popular. Only weekend buoy racers with 4 knot snotboxes want to see lame AC boats so they can tell themselves they do the same thing. As for sailing declining in general that's simple, people have less time, less real money, and less testosterone. Last one is not a joke T levels are way down in Western populations.
    Leaving aside your sexism and insults that appear designed to make yourself feel superior, you missed the point. Sports in which weekend racers can feel they are doing the same thing as the pros get more participants, and that's the point.

    It's not a matter of egoes being threatened. If the sailing world went to foilers tomorrow I'd do better than I do today so my ego could be boosted. I used to race at world championship in the first discipline in our sport that went down the "extreme" route, and I know that I could switch into ego-boosting extreme sailing tomorrow if I wanted. It's about wanting what is better for the sport.

    By the way there are many women who do amazing things on the water (and off) with lower testosterone levels than men. Linking the two is sexist rubbish.
    Last edited by Chris249; 11-21-2017 at 02:58 PM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,533

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    I didn't like the "12s" . Heavy slow dinosaurs of things with all sorts of complications to wring the very last fraction of a knot out of them under a rule that punished any feature that would allow then to go faster. I did though enjoy the IACC boats that superseded them, especially the first two or so generations which were at least reasonably fast without being overly complex, and which made pretty good match racers.
    I've sailed on both, the 12 felt as though it were dragging a sea anchor, it was horrible to sail, the IACC boat in comparison was a pleasure but had much much higher loadings than you'd expect at first sight. 20 tons of lead on the bottom end of a keel three times my height makes for an extreme rmf curve, and momentum which makes the boat very different to sail.
    Neither of them had as much in common with "ordinary boats" as one might think, both from the design point of view and from the sailing point of view.

    John Welsford
    I suppose it depends on perspective. The 12s hulls were odd by our standards, but familiar to many sailors when they were brought into the Cup. The only time I raced one in a class race I felt that the rig and handling was very similar to that of a normal large-ish offshore racer. Running bow, for instance, was very familiar. I had to sail the latest Farr 52 the last day of the regatta and while the hull was obviously far lighter, the techniques and rig were very similar.

    I think it was Jim Pugh who told me that boats like the Z86s and 80ft Shockwave were pretty close to the IACC boats, although lighter. Again, the 80s felt just like normal boats; you could step from a Beneteau 40.7 or J/36 and feel at home once you got accustomed to the forces.

    Certainly there seemed to be less of a step from (say) a typical racing Beneteau, J/Boat or IOR/RORC boat into the America's Cup boat than there is between say a Laser and a Moth, foiling or non foiling, or between a 470 and an 18 Foot Skiff.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    696

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Leaving aside your sexism and insults that appear designed to make yourself feel superior, you missed the point. Sports in which weekend racers can feel they are doing the same thing as the pros get more participants, and that's the point.

    It's not a matter of egoes being threatened. If the sailing world went to foilers tomorrow I'd do better than I do today so my ego could be boosted. I used to race at world championship in the first discipline in our sport that went down the "extreme" route, and I know that I could switch into ego-boosting extreme sailing tomorrow if I wanted. It's about wanting what is better for the sport.

    By the way there are many women who do amazing things on the water (and off) with lower testosterone levels than men. Linking the two is sexist rubbish.
    The sport that is winning the participation war here in the UK is cycling. Easy to access, quick to do and greatly benefiting from trickle down.

    We we have a saying at our club - go sail like a girl - all out best sailors are female.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Christchurch NZ
    Posts
    129

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    My hope is that the class has time to mature. In the last cycles of the cup, the racing has been over-shadowed by boat development and the real potential has only started to be shown in the last few races.
    The last races of the most recent cup demonstrated that the boats were very maneuverable and in many of the races the winning margin was a matter of a few seconds. Another series, evolving the class with what had been learned, would have been something to see.
    Now everybody will be back to the beginning and I expect to see more races dominated by development.
    Last edited by Mcjim; 11-21-2017 at 07:16 PM.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norwich,United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,920

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    The sport that is winning the participation war here in the UK is cycling. Easy to access, quick to do and greatly benefiting from trickle down.

    We we have a saying at our club - go sail like a girl - all out best sailors are female.
    Actually,it was only last month that I read a report that indicated that cycling had peaked over here.Still lots of gear fetishists,but the competitive side of things seems to be suffering from the perceived involvement of pharmaceutical companies.

    To get realistic about the AC,its a challenge between large egos and correspondingly large bank balances-if you don't want to engage with it there are lots of slow leadmines racing and you can follow those as you wish.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,533

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Even if cycling is peaking, it's peaking from an enormous base of participants, like the 28,000 who do the longer Ride London events, not to mention the other 70,000 who do the short ones. That's got to be a success story that shows that cycling is getting it right, surely.

    It's not just about what some of us may personally prefer to watch - it's also about what is good for the sport. The recent organisers have explicitly said that they want to benefit the sport, but arguably they have ignored all of the wealth of information that has been garnered from studies into sports participation in general and in sailing in particular. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason why that cannot be mentioned on forums, particularly when the sport's popularity could well be going into a steepening nosedive and the types that some say are "the future of sailing" are only selling in tiny numbers. There's only been around 1000 foiling cats sold in the last five years, for instance, despite the AC and OIympic selection. If they are "the future of sailing" then the sport has no future.*

    I'm not sure I'm particularly unrealistic about the AC, by the way; I've studied the history of it fairly intensively and have known and sailed with many of those who race in it.


    * That's not an attack on the less popular high performance classes; I own and love a few of them. It's just being realistic about their numbers and effect on the sport.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gold Coast Australia
    Posts
    2,019

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Speaking as a cruising sailor I was lucky enough to observe the NZ team Emirates practise in Auckland Harbour prior to winning the America Cup and I found it awe inspiring .Surley the technology going into these projects will be benificial to the sport in the long run.

    On the other hand the America Cup has historically been about who has the biggest chequebook and bending the rules in order to win at all costs ,with the prime example of racing catamarans against monohulls after the Yanks lost the cup to Australia.

    The AC boats racing on Auckland Harbour where built for around 10 million and since the AC75 will undoubtedly grossly exceed that price tag ,the object may be to simply win by outpricing the opposition .

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    21,311

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    I think they look great & will be interested to see what happens.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    696

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjim View Post
    My hope is that the class has time to mature. In the last cycles of the cup, the racing has been over-shadowed by boat development and the real potential has only started to be shown in the last few races.
    The last races of the most recent cup demonstrated that the boats were very maneuverable and in many of the races the winning margin was a matter of a few seconds. Another series, evolving the class with what had been learned, would have been something to see.
    Now everybody will be back to the beginning and I expect to see more races dominated by development.
    good points well made

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North East England
    Posts
    696

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Even if cycling is peaking, it's peaking from an enormous base of participants, like the 28,000 who do the longer Ride London events, not to mention the other 70,000 who do the short ones. That's got to be a success story that shows that cycling is getting it right, surely.

    It's not just about what some of us may personally prefer to watch - it's also about what is good for the sport. The recent organisers have explicitly said that they want to benefit the sport, but arguably they have ignored all of the wealth of information that has been garnered from studies into sports participation in general and in sailing in particular. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason why that cannot be mentioned on forums, particularly when the sport's popularity could well be going into a steepening nosedive and the types that some say are "the future of sailing" are only selling in tiny numbers. There's only been around 1000 foiling cats sold in the last five years, for instance, despite the AC and OIympic selection. If they are "the future of sailing" then the sport has no future.*

    I'm not sure I'm particularly unrealistic about the AC, by the way; I've studied the history of it fairly intensively and have known and sailed with many of those who race in it.


    * That's not an attack on the less popular high performance classes; I own and love a few of them. It's just being realistic about their numbers and effect on the sport.
    Just imagine if the truely believed and wanted to benefit sailing. They still spend the millions but cap the spending the actual AC boats with a conservative one design and pure match racing. All the extra millions go int sailing from grass roots up. They want to win the Cup and anything else they say is about get someone else to pay for a bit if it.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Whangarei New Zealand
    Posts
    437

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    Yes, this foiling mono looks to have the ingredients for an interesting direction in competitive sailing……… that is if there is a ruling to prevent weight reduction leading to the same flimsy structures that have characterized the multi’s or the carbon hulled leadmines that we have previously seen toppeling over and disintegrating or collapsing under rig loadings.
    Heck! With the right minimum weight restriction, it might even be possible to see wooden boats being built again.

    Foils do not necessarily have to comprise of a material with an sg that precludes everything but carbon composites, although being intended for AC competition, it will no doubt turn out to go that way.

    Since sail carrying stability comes largely by virtue of weight to windward in traditional sailing craft fashion, we are squarely in boat territory again, so this could keep a reign on the aerodynamic bent in design tendencies.
    Mast and sail has a chance again.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,964

    Default Re: America's Cup foiling monohull concept

    If the foils are intended to also be ballast, CF might be absolutely the wrong choice.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •