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Thread: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

  1. #1
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    Default Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    So,

    I'm based in Australia, but those EnZedders sure know how to build a boat. I'm looking at the possibility of purchasing a beautiful cold moulded yacht in NZ (triple diagonal kauri, glassed over), keeping her there a couple of years while flying over every few months to do some exploring/maintenance and then sailing her back across the ditch to Australia (with professional assistance as I have limited offshore experience). She's an offshore racing design so should be easily capable of the crossing (provided, of course, that everything is checked and upgraded as necessary).

    There's no denying this adventure is a bit impractical and certainly won't be cheap or hiccup-free. However, the boat was fully restored about 10 years ago and still appears to be in exceptional condition (spotless interior and bilge).

    What I'm hoping is that someone local will be able to recommend an honest surveyor in the Auckland area with plenty of wooden boat experience to confirm that the boat is actually as good as she looks. I'm not clueless but there's plenty I don't know, especially when it comes to cold moulding.

    Relatedly, I'd also love to hear from anyone with any tips on what to pay attention to in a cold moulded boat from the 70s.

    All input appreciated, and thank ye kindly.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    I would get me a brand-new 1.5 lb (.7 kilo) hammer...


    And spend a day or three tapping every 2 sq.in.(13 sq cm), of the hull outside and inside, deck and transom, cabin sides and top, and spars. Listening for hollow spots.
    In ADDITION to getting the surveyor's report.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    As you have limited offshore experience, are you SURE you want a race boat?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    Sounds like a good plan. Contact Ray Beale , if he can't do it then see who he recommends. He would be top of my list, but there's quite a few extremely good surveyors familiar with the type.
    Can you say who built it or the design? Or pm me if it's confidential and I'll tell you what I know.

    http://bealeboats.co.nz/About_Us.shtml
    Last edited by John B; 11-19-2017 at 04:04 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    You may find that you just want to go live in Aukland, but the traffic is horrendous. Kind of like Sydney, but without any planning. Will you be keeping the boat in Melbourne or Tassie? And where in Tassie?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    As you have limited offshore experience, are you SURE you want a race boat?
    Its a good point , but I would say that many designs from that era , race or not , are actually pretty nice hull forms. And particularly here where dedicated race boats didn't fit our demographic for whatever reason. We didn't have a big population of uber rich then, and even those few who were ,were constrained by the 'hull speed' type design philosophy.
    Most race boats here were actually racer cruisers or cruiser racers with full fit outs and scantlings that make the modern eurotrash boats flooding our market now look like eggshells. There were exceptions obviously but thats the generality, because most Kiwi yachties go beer can racing and then expect to cruise in summer.
    Mid 70's was the breakthough period into faster surfing boats and the newer hull forms taking over from the established ONE tonner/ early IOR hulls. Farrs and the like.
    So a '70's race boat' might have a tree trunk masthead ali mast and a full interior, and the bow sections might be quite a deep U shape. so forgiving in a seaway.
    Probably plenty of tankage. Late 70's will be getting flatter and early 80's maybe pound a bit on the wind, depending.

    Brightwater, I just stalked your previous threads and it refreshed me as to your GIS build, one I followed back then. My boy Tom is at the maritime college in Launceston.

    Things to look for .

    Delamination as Jackster says. the builder and general provenance comes into that a lot, but you're looking for evidence of movement in frames and bulkheads etc as much as hitting the boat with a hammer. Side note , we just sailed back from Fiji and the third crewmember I had , had not been in a cold moulded boat . His comment to me was he was surprised at how quiet the boat was, no creaks or groans or flexing. Cupboards and doors all open at all angles of sail.

    The stay ons. You want your rig , rudder and keel to stay on. Keel bolts , rudder stock material, rigging wire and terminations and the biggy.. chainplate attachments. see deck condition below.

    Deck . Fresh water is the death of wooden boats. Teak over ply ? You need to know its good and sealed. But most importantly you need to be as sure as you can be that the chainplates at the deck interface are good. Thats where the crevice corrosion gets in.

    Staunchions. Fresh water is the death of wooden boats. nuff said.

    and then everything else is about fit out and sails and engine/ engineering, and what the gear list is like.
    Last edited by John B; 11-19-2017 at 04:03 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Its a good point , but I would say that many designs from that era , race or not , are actually pretty nice hull forms. And particularly here where dedicated race boats didn't fit our demographic for whatever reason. We didn't have a big population of uber rich then, and even those few who were ,were constrained by the 'hull speed' type design philosophy.
    Most race boats here were actually racer cruisers or cruiser racers with full fit outs and scantlings that make the modern eurotrash boats flooding our market now look like eggshells. There were exceptions obviously but thats the generality, because most Kiwi yachties go beer can racing and then expect to cruise in summer.
    Mid 70's was the breakthough period into faster surfing boats and the newer hull forms taking over from the established ONE tonner/ early IOR hulls. Farrs and the like.
    So a '70's race boat' might have a tree trunk masthead ali mast and a full interior, and the bow sections might be quite a deep U shape. so forgiving in a seaway.
    Probably plenty of tankage. Late 70's will be getting flatter and early 80's maybe pound a bit on the wind, depending.

    Brightwater, I just stalked your previous threads and it refreshed me as to your GIS build, one I followed back then. My boy Tom is at the maritime college in Launceston.

    Things to look for .

    Delamination as Jackster says. the builder and general provenance comes into that a lot, but you're looking for evidence of movement in frames and bulkheads etc as much as hitting the boat with a hammer. Side note , we just sailed back from Fiji and the third crewmember I had , had not been in a cold moulded boat . His comment to me was he was surprised at how quiet the boat was, no creaks or groans or flexing. Cupboards and doors all open at all angles of sail.

    The stay ons. You want your rig , rudder and keel to stay on. Keel bolts , rudder stock material, rigging wire and terminations and the biggy.. chainplate attachments. see deck condition below.

    Deck . Fresh water is the death of wooden boats. Teak over ply ? You need to know its good and sealed. But most importantly you need to be as sure as you can be that the chainplates at the deck interface are good. Thats where the crevice corrosion gets in.

    Staunchions. Fresh water is the death of wooden boats. nuff said.

    and then everything else is about fit out and sails and engine/ engineering, and what the gear list is like.

    As Mr B points out crevice corrosion is a surprising and deadly aspect of stainless steel. I've found 316 bolts in the mud at the slip that looked like bead blasted rusty mild steel.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    Thanks very much for your replies everyone, especially John B. I've followed your travels on Riada (beautiful boat), and I was hoping you'd see this thread. I'll PM you later today (after I leave work) - would really appreciate your thoughts on the boat. I'd rather not embarrass myself by putting her up in public just yet, and my partner and I currently have at least one other potential boat in mind as well.

    Regarding her 'racer' nature, she has apparently been converted to a 'cruising' setup though I'm not actually sure what's meant by that and intend to ask. She still has plenty of racing characteristics - a small engine for her size, lots of single berths, forepeak dedicated to sail stowage, relatively minimal galley etc. Conceivably, I could play around with the layout in future. She is absolutely more boat than I currently know how to use, but on the other hand, I intend to grow into her and a capable boat is useful even for coastal cruising.

    I'm putting together a list of questions for the broker and the owner, and chainplates (among all the other items mentioned above) are something I'll check carefully. From the interior photos, they appear new (ie. shiny), and were, I suspect, replaced when she was restored 10 years ago. I will certainly pay attention to their interface with the deck. At least one set is fastened directly to massive knees rather than to the topsides.

    Jackster, tapping the hull is a good plan - I'll set aside a day for it if we decide to go ahead with the purchase (it'll be a 'deposit subject to survey and sea trial' kind of deal). Would a medium-hard rubber head be enough to protect the paint and still produce a hollow sound in a bad spot? Obviously I'll need to reassure the owner that I'm not going to go tapping all the paint off his boat.

    Phil, I've relocated to Canberra recently so I'd most likely be keeping her at Batemans Bay, of all places. Would love to keep her in Tas as my family are down there but if we want to use her more than three times a year, Batemans it has to be!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    By racer vs cruiser, I refer to motion at sea, of a full keel heavy boat to a fin keeler. Not accomodations.
    Be sure you can tolerate the quick jerky motion.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    There's a thread somewhere, called something like "A bit of epoxy and fairing should do it" about such a boat

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    Wiz - I understand what you mean now! I guess the old 'fin versus full' debate will probably rage on for as long as there are boats, but most of my sailing has been done on dinghies so any keelboat should feel comparatively steady and quiet - though on the other hand, you will of course take a keelboat out in conditions and places you wouldn't take a dinghy. However, this boat's not some Open 40 carbon eggshell, and based on the kind of sailing I'll be doing (coastal, mainly) a nice solid, beamy fin-keeler should be comfortable enough. The Pardeys we most certainly are not, and there are some definite advantages (speed, pointing).

    Also, if one wanted to go full keel, at least in Australia, that basically means a carvel hull. I'm not fatally opposed to carvel (the other boat we're looking at it is a splined carvel full-keeler) but there's quite a bit more time and skill involved in caring for them. The idea of dry bilges is also very appealing.

    Phil - not sure I recall the thread! Does it begin with some poor chap buying a boat, thinking he'd slap some paint on and go sailing, and end with him getting divorced and spending the next 10 years locked in a shed? If so, I'm pretty determined not to be that guy, and I'm pretty sure this isn't that boat (famous last words?).

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Cold moulded boats + recommendations for wooden boat surveyors near Auckland, NZ

    Something like that.

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