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Thread: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    I think that adults should be able to look at this and understand that intent is important. Did he intend to take sexual gratification of express his power over her, or was he trying to make some troops laugh?

    We all know it was a mistake, but did he intend to harm someone? I don't think so and that should count.

    I cannot say the same thing about the p***y-grabber in the Oval Office, or Moore, or Weinstein, or a bunch of the others. I think it is true of Franken.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Franken's quick damage-control apology is undercut by his having signaled much virtue, publicly, about Trumps Access Hollywood tape, Trump's claim that it was just "locker room talk," as well as the whole Weinstein mess.

    He preened and moralized for the cameras, doing the holier than thou routine. The deepest irony is that he's now been caught having done the very thing Trump bragged of doing on that tape. What a hypocrite.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    I smell rotten bait.

    LMAO
    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." - Alice

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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    The deepest irony is that he's now been caught having done the very thing Trump bragged of doing on that tape.
    He certainly did NOT. You can fairly criticize Franken for what he DID do, but comparing that to the things Trump alleged, on that tape, is just a bald-faced lie.
    "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it."
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Franken's quick damage-control apology is undercut by his having signaled much virtue, publicly, about Trumps Access Hollywood tape, Trump's claim that it was just "locker room talk," as well as the whole Weinstein mess.

    He preened and moralized for the cameras, doing the holier than thou routine. The deepest irony is that he's now been caught having done the very thing Trump bragged of doing on that tape. What a hypocrite.
    Not overly familiar with female anatomy huh?
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  6. #41
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    You guys really going to split hairs like this on the touching of a woman in a sexual way, without consent?

    Good gracious.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    I don't think fingers on a flak jacket - or fingers held close to a flak jacket (which is what I think the shadows in the picture shows) are "the very thing" Trump bragged of grabbing on the Access Hollywood tape.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I don't think fingers on a flak jacket - or fingers held close to a flak jacket (which is what I think the shadows in the picture shows) are "the very thing" Trump bragged of grabbing on the Access Hollywood tape.
    Pathetic. The "very thing" is the sense of entitlement that one can engage in such conduct, without consent, and indeed, for one's prurient amusement.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    You clearly didn't read what I wrote over on page 1. Take your "Pathetic" and apply it elsewhere.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I don't think fingers on a flak jacket - or fingers held close to a flak jacket (which is what I think the shadows in the picture shows) are "the very thing" Trump bragged of grabbing on the Access Hollywood tape.
    The really damning thing is that she was sound asleep. He took advantage of her and squarely makes her a victim. Moreover - it is clearly an expression of this cad's bad character.

    Let sky have this one. Franklin is a scumbag.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    For every social ill we wise up to... there tends to be a period of 'over-reaction'. It was ever thus. That's just us being human.

    I remember back in the 70's, when women were rising up, burning their bras, taking the pill, and being as sexually active as they felt like being. Reacting against centuries of a male dominance that had long since outlived its evolutionary usefulness.

    There was a significant chunk of those women who - unsurprisingly - over-reacted. They 'decided' to be lesbian (even though they weren't really wired that way... it never lasted). They wore only plain... or men's... clothing. Definitely no bras. Short hair. They swore that, henceforth, they would ONLY do business with women-owned firms. No more male roomates in shared housing either. Some would only listen to women-oriented music - like Chris Williamson and Holly Near. Eventually... all of them that I knew outgrew it, and settled into a more useful stance.

    That time is now for sexual abuse and sexual harassment. I can live with that, but remember... much of what we are doing and saying should be examined for the potential 'over-reaction' factor.
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Put him in a dunking chair. If he drowns he isn't a warlock. I'll go get the pitchforks and torches (not tiki torches, either!).
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    I actually feel bad for Senator Franken. I don't think he's a predator in the vein of Weinstein (for example), and few of us would do well being defined solely by some of our worst moments or past judgment lapses. Franken has also shown himself to be a thoughtful, competent representative of his constituents and neither is he a professional politician nor even really part of the swamp. He's a true citizen politician.

    It's the smug preening and virtue signaling for the cameras that really gets down to it. Franken even made a big show about returning the donations Weinstein made to him.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Franken should resign. By doing so he has the chance to demonstrate that a man can be true to principles and give up a comfortable position, taking responsibility for his actions. Sure he's a decent "citizen legislator" but he f@cked up. I'm sick of apologies, I want to see a man demonstrate that he truly regrets his actions by making a meaningful sacrifice.

    This also would ensure that Democrats would not make the mistake of thinking that a goddamn SNL comedian could actually win the presidency (I know, we have a goddamn pussy grabbing comedian in that office now, no reason to put another one in there after him).

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    i don't get the demand for resignations. if he worked at a mcdonalds would you demand he resign from the fry cook station?

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i don't get the demand for resignations. if he worked at a mcdonalds would you demand he resign from the fry cook station?

    hahahahahaha!!!!!

    See the difference is at McDonalds the grease goes in the fryer. In Washington the grease goes in the palm!
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Franken should resign. By doing so he has the chance to demonstrate that a man can be true to principles and give up a comfortable position, taking responsibility for his actions. Sure he's a decent "citizen legislator" but he f@cked up. I'm sick of apologies, I want to see a man demonstrate that he truly regrets his actions by making a meaningful sacrifice.

    This also would ensure that Democrats would not make the mistake of thinking that a goddamn SNL comedian could actually win the presidency (I know, we have a goddamn pussy grabbing comedian in that office now, no reason to put another one in there after him).
    I think maybe Franken's rehabilitation depends on resigning for this reason, and running for office again in the ensuing Special Election.

    If he's returned to office by Minnesotans, the issue's done, and he's spilled enough of his own blood.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I think maybe Franken's rehabilitation depends on resigning for this reason, and running for office again in the ensuing Special Election.

    If he's returned to office by Minnesotans, the issue's done, and he's spilled enough of his own blood.
    Just a chance for more money to get dumped into the already bloated system. And then there is the repayment.
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    We do need to have a discussion about the result of this type of allegation. Can a person be forced to never work again because of 30 year old allegations? At what point and by what method can they pay their debt?

    That will be a useful discussion, but first, Franken needs to go.

    Sorry, I liked him, but people who would take advantage like that should not be among the elite rulers of this land. That is the difference between a senator and a fry-cook. After the hoopla about Moore and Weinstein, there is no other recourse. Franken needs to step down.

    And so does the president for that matter.

    This is a closet cleaning that has been long overdue. Better to send a strong message that the era of powerful people assaulting women with impunity is over. We can sit down and agree on how this should be handled when the dust settles.

    Stopping now would just serve to show victims that it really wasn't worth coming forward after all.

    Notice that the rich and famous are falling, but average Joe middle manager has been unaffected. This will get more sweeping before it slows if Justice has anything to do with it.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    [QUOTE=J.Madison;5397812]
    That will be a useful discussion, but first, Franken needs to go.

    QUOTE]


    To follow this logic to it's conclusion then, Clarence Thomas needs to step down from the SCOTUS too.
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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Every woman I know well enough to have the conversation, has her own stories. The least of them from Herself, is how she was spied on as she changed into her uniform at the fast-food place where she worked during high school. By a couple of the "managers." She's got plenty more.

    Yeah, Franken probably has to step down; I think that by doing so, he can regain the stature to stand again for election, and win.

    I think it's an imaginary puff of smoke, thinking that Trump would step down for his own sexual failings. That election's been fought, and the folks who voted for him were in no doubt ... and didn't care.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Yup. Clean house.

    A moral leg to stand on would be really refreshing right now.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Every woman I know well enough to have the conversation, has her own stories. The least of them from Herself, is how she was spied on as she changed into her uniform at the fast-food place where she worked during high school. By a couple of the "managers." She's got plenty more.

    Yeah, Franken probably has to step down; I think that by doing so, he can regain the stature to stand again for election, and win.

    I think it's an imaginary puff of smoke, thinking that Trump would step down for his own sexual failings. That election's been fought, and the folks who voted for him were in no doubt ... and didn't care.

    so you condemn trump voters for getting him elected with everyone "knowing what he has done" but you're fine with franken getting elected again as long as everyone knows what he did and votes for him anyways?

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    so you condemn trump voters for getting him elected with everyone "knowing what he has done" but you're fine with franken getting elected again as long as everyone knows what he did and votes for him anyways?
    And you are not?

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    so you condemn trump voters for getting him elected with everyone "knowing what he has done" but you're fine with franken getting elected again as long as everyone knows what he did and votes for him anyways?
    If Franken steps down specifically to make atonement for his actions, and asks Minnesotans to elect him as a changed man ... Yeah.

    I believe in confession, repentance, and reconciliation. I believe that people can and do change. And in my experience, the very most effective people doing counseling on an issue are people who've struggled with that issue themselves, and made a personal change. It might take a person with Franken's story or something like it to be effective in changing the culture.

    I also think that Trump has done everything but take responsibility for his own history of sexually questionable behaviour. He's denied it, threatened lawsuits, and minimized what little he's been unable to deny. It's quite different electing someone who's defiant, and electing someone who's repentant.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Does the punishment you gentlemen suggesting really fit the crime?

    My answer is no! Now if there is suddenly a landslide of others coming forward, my opinion might be swayed. If he is truly a repeat offender they will be coming with allegations before Friday.
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Does the punishment you gentlemen suggesting really fit the crime?

    My answer is no! Now if there is suddenly a landslide of others coming forward, my opinion might be swayed. If he is truly a repeat offender they will be coming with allegations before Friday.
    Objectively, I don't think this "crime" was terribly large, as compared with many in the news. But I don't think that will matter in political slanging.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    We do need to have a discussion about the result of this type of allegation. Can a person be forced to never work again because of 30 year old allegations? At what point and by what method can they pay their debt?
    .
    With 30 year old allegations of simple assault, with perhaps minor sexual battery (if that's what forceful kissing is?) the only punishment available is public shaming. This might force a politician to never work in politics again, but for people with marketable skills there is usually decent employment. For the ex-politicians there are plenty of fry cook positions available

    The debt is paid when the publicity dies down, and the ex-politician is comfortable over that big hot grill on the third shift at a 24 hour Denny's restaurant. (Provided he keeps his hands off the waitresses of course)

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Jesus. This thing has gotten out of hand.

    Based on the reports of a couple off hours ago it isn't clear to me exactly what there is here. If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say this looks like a put up job. But ok, let's hear it all as it plays out.

    Men have to stop acting like pigs in dog suits and women will have to learn to speak up and learn when they have to push back. I have three daughters. Maybe I'll ask one of them to post their thoughts on the whole thing under my name. In fact it would be interesting to hear from the wives, daughters and sisters of us, the dogs, on this forum. How do we organize a lady thread? We've run 'em all off.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Does the punishment you gentlemen suggesting really fit the crime?

    My answer is no! Now if there is suddenly a landslide of others coming forward, my opinion might be swayed. If he is truly a repeat offender they will be coming with allegations before Friday.
    Soon you won't bother getting involved unless your an eagle scout or Pollyanna.

    Like the guards at the tomb of the unknown.....must swear to never drink alcohol.

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  31. #66
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Tempest in a tea pot!
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  32. #67
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Does the fact that she's good buddies with Hannity have anything to do with her timing?
    “What, Me Worry?". -. A. E. Newman

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Does the fact that she's good buddies with Hannity have anything to do with her timing?
    Say what?

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  34. #69
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    skip,
    +1

    More please Jim.
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  35. #70
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    Default Re: Al Franken, we hardly knew yee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    If Franken steps down specifically to make atonement for his actions, and asks Minnesotans to elect him as a changed man ... Yeah.

    I believe in confession, repentance, and reconciliation. I believe that people can and do change. And in my experience, the very most effective people doing counseling on an issue are people who've struggled with that issue themselves, and made a personal change. It might take a person with Franken's story or something like it to be effective in changing the culture.

    I also think that Trump has done everything but take responsibility for his own history of sexually questionable behaviour. He's denied it, threatened lawsuits, and minimized what little he's been unable to deny. It's quite different electing someone who's defiant, and electing someone who's repentant.



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